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Please Revert Health Regen (and Mana Regen) Changes

Terchio··1 votes·556 views

I don't know why this was done in the first place, but it's just about the only statistic that improves moreso based on the champion you play (Attack Speed being the other, I believe). Ruby Crystal improves Health by 150, no matter who you are. Long Sword gives +10 damage regardless of who you are as well. However, Rejuv Bead gives 1.5 HP/5 to level 1 Gnar/Soraka, but 20 HP/5 to level 18 Heimerdinger (and, btw, please put him in line with other champions, at least).

So, why is this a bad mechanic? Because low HP Regen (and MP Regen) values are used by Riot to balance a champion's lane viability. You want to nerf someone's lane sustain, you tank one of those two. But, if that champion can't even make that up with more regen, it drains the viability of the stat as a whole. Right now, Health Regen is a useless item buy because level 6 Regen is just plain terrible save Rejuv Beads, and generally isn't worth it on larger items until level 18, at which point the game's max Regen items (at 100% Max Regen) barely hit the values they once were pre-fix (maxed at 20 HP/5).

The stat is downright useless at low levels, and only climbs to its old viability on a handful of champions. It makes Rejuv Beads an obscenely good buy on some of the game's best rejuvenators, but then the upgrades only double the improvement for 20x the cost in some cases? The max (non-Warmog's) used to quadruple a Rejuvenation Bead, meanwhile. Same arguments go for MP, as well. Casters are better off grabbing what they need in runes/masteries pre-6, grab a few Mana Faerie Charms (and maybe Morellonomicon/Forbidden Idol), and hardly worry about mana again, while low-MP-Regen champs generally have to go the Mana route, but hardly mind it because Mana Regen is not capable of being a full-fledged strategy but by a handful of champions.

Final note, if you are going to make an item mechanic that basically immitates scaling runes, its ratio should also scale similarly. If you change HP Regen from 5 per 5 to generally 3 + .2-.3 per level, it's going to suck early game. There should be an endgame boost to it to make the sacrifice actually worthwhile instead of ending up dead-even. But really, an item that gets better by the level shouldn't exist.

3 Comments

iluvalar2 votes

Let me correct some facts. Soraka doesnt regen for 1.5hp5, she regen for 4hp5 the champion of her choice minus herself that's a lot better. That's why they nerfed her regen, I think they went a bit too far on this but meh. There is ways around it.

There is no reason to put heimer "in line" with other champions because that's his PASSIVE. Techmaturgical Repair Bots doesnt tick on him anymore. He was gifted with higher hp5 instead. It's a nerf unless he build 2 beads or more. That's great it gives heimer more itemization choice.

"this a bad [...] Because [...] values are used by Riot to balance a champion" yup. Riot have a new way to balance champion. That was the purpose of that. You want to protect the game from Riot ?

There is still plenty of items, runes and masteries which are still flat. If you think that scaling hp5 is too late game, go for one of them.

I'd suggest to revert the mp5 but not the hp5. Reason is, most champions mana need doesnt scale nearly as fast with levels. Which create a gameplay that change as the game progress.

Terchio1 votes

Let me correct some facts. Soraka doesnt regen for 1.5hp5, she regen for 4hp5 the champion of her choice minus herself that's a lot better.

Not so sure what you're talking about there, but that 1.5 HP/5 would be her level 1 value for Rejuv Bead. Her Base Regen is 2.5, plus .5 per level, and Rejuv Bead is 50% of Base HP Regen only. That's 1.5.

There is no reason to put heimer "in line" with other champions because that's his PASSIVE.

It's a nerf on him, maybe, but a buff on Beads. When he gets 1.5x the HP Regen benefit from items than the second best champion, that makes him an outlier, and therefore the regeneration items are built to be balanced around that. Therefore, all regeneration items have been forced to be absolute junk, partially because Heimer would rock them if they were any better.

Riot have a new way to balance champion. That was the purpose of that. You want to protect the game from Riot ?

Riot also nerfed HP Regen. Clearly I'm not saying they're infallible. When a champion loses this Base HP Regen, it makes HP Regen more necessary, but also makes it harder to obtain. So, in other words, Rejuv Beads are now only useful to those who don't need it, anyway.

There is still plenty of items, runes and masteries which are still flat. If you think that scaling hp5 is too late game, go for one of them.

Champions can't survive the early game well enough with Regen, how do they get to late game? It's just bad... Maybe if it had a better late-game than before, but that's usually worse. It's just bad.

I'd suggest to revert the mp5 but not the hp5. Reason is, most champions mana need doesnt scale nearly as fast with levels. Which create a gameplay that change as the game progress.

Yeah, no idea how the Mp5 is more impactful than Hp5. HP is kinda important, ya know, for living. If you're feeling a gameplay change as you progress with MP, HP should be no different, except that it was generally nerfed in the process. You used to get 1.666x the HP Regen for the MP Regen, and that's generally kept the same since Faerie Charms are 25% Base MP Regen, and Rejuv Beads are 50% Base HP Regen. However, the best HP Regen items are only 100% Base HP Regen, while the best MP Regen items are the same 100%. That's the falloff of HP Regen through a game, and I wouldn't doubt that Heimer was at least partly to blame for that.*

It doesn't make sense thematically that he should sustain so much anyway, so why is he getting the pad on Base stats when Gnar is then taking a hit from it before his transformation into Mega-Gnar? No ability should pad base stats, but I'm mostly angry for Heimer's because he gets up to 40 base HP/5 when the next highest is 26 HP/5, over a 50% increase. At least Mega Gnar only gets handfulls of extra bases when he's up... Nothing crazy like 150% of the #2 offender.

*Edit: Forgot to note, Base HPs and Base MPs on champions are very close to similar, as well.

G1Radiobot1 votes

I just want them to bring back Mordes health regen. The reduced health costs were nice, but I get forced out of lane more often then I ever did before when the costs were higher. Now Mordekaiser has one of the lowest base health regens in the game, lower then Katarina. For a fairly tanky champion, I don't think that makes too much sense.

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