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For the love of spiders everywhere, DO NOT NERF ELISE AGAIN!

Terchio·7/8/2015, 8:07:10 PM·2 votes·451 views

Cocoon (E) stun now 1.5 seconds at all ranks from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 Cocoon (E) cooldown now 14/12.5/11/9.5/8 from 14/13/12/11/10

I can't even fathom the direction this wants to go. Cocoon is a skill that enables her to get damage done in Spider Form. The skill had a 10 second cooldown. Her form shifts are at 4 seconds apiece. Therefore, rapid-shifting, and she only has 2 seconds lagtime, as opposed to Skittering Frenzy at 4 seconds, and Rappel at 6 seconds. You might get off one Venomous Bite while rapid-shifting, but you don't need Cocoon to do that.

So, useless cooldown shift, and then drop the endgame duration? Isn't her lategame fruitless enough? I mean, a non-damage, single-target, skillshot stun, which her melee kit relies entirely on, and which gets underused on her in general, and you want to lower that?

She is constantly a bottom 5 win-rate in the game, and on a champion only veterans would touch. Do we really think that her CC duration was too overwhelming in the lategame, her roughest time of the game?

3 Comments

Abyssphere7/8/2015, 9:04:34 PM1 votes

It's not a nerf. Her late game is worse, yes, but by late game I mean properly late game. If you max E second on live then your stun duration is shorter only from level 12-onwards. If you max E last, it's lower only from level 17-onwards. It's not massively common to actually get to the latter point, and in most games even if you max Cocoon second you will still spend the majority of the game with a longer stun duration.

Realistically the extra 0.5 second duration on Cocoon didn't mean THAT much. It made her late game less awful but in exchange her early to mid game was weakened so much by the shorter initial duration that she struggled to actually reach that point in the game in a good state. Essentially, having a weaker stun at very late levels is more than worth the massively increased chance of snowballing early. If you take enough advantage of the stronger early stun while you have it, you'll hit your late game in much better shape, completely nullifying the late duration nerf.

It's very arguable that she'll typically have worse late games than on live with this change considering how she'll transition from the early to mid game much better. Her mid game is also much, much stronger because maxing E second is less essential, meaning your damage no longer falls off a cliff after level 9.

This is not a nerf, even late. Your early game is so, so much stronger with this change and with W now being viable to max second, you can now actually remain relevant damage-wise in the mid game. On live the weird situation where her E and W both need points in them to be effective means that even a 5/0 Elise stops being a threat very quickly after level 9 - either her stun is too short for her to lock you down long enough to kill you (W max) or her damage falls off horribly (E max) to the point where she can't 1v1 anyone. Now she can actually scale her damage up while retaining an adequate stun duration. It's everything she could have asked for.

p.s. also even the reduced stun duration late is compensated for by the reduced cooldown

Stellafreyja7/8/2015, 9:28:06 PM1 votes

It's a revert to what she had in the past, but it's also a buff because of the lowered cooldown. This helps her early game immensely, but does indeed hurt her late game a bit, but in all honesty, is 0.5 seconds that much of a nerf?

Terchio7/8/2015, 9:54:42 PM1 votes

How do we believe this is a buff? Just because of early game? This is Elise we're talking about here, not Leblanc. Elise is permanently gimped from participating meaningfully in the late game, why is she being treated as if "early game only" works for her? Her early game is already strong, but I'd still say LB has the edge, even. Why is this being entertained?