Something like Rengar's leap from ultimate doubling lethality instead of critting, or Talon's bleed damage increasing by 300% lethality, etc.
Now even if you nerf the items a bit, the assassins will remain more or less strong because the lethality items give them so much more than it would give other AD casters.
SanKakU27 votesThat's pretty smart. Get more creative with scaling on abilities isn't a bad idea. That makes more sense then "hmm maybe ADC can't use movement speed if we make it out-of-combat so they won't buy it" or make the item so weak even assassins won't buy it.
Not xPeke14 votesBut then you are absolutely forced into building lethality. what if you want to try diff items and stuff? you'll be very useless simply because of the scaling restriction on your abilities that absolutely requires you to run lethality.
Cool idea though.
50000000000000002 votesYou're definitely right, and I agree. It was an oversight I didn't notice until other people pointed out. I think a solution can be adding more lethality items, but cap lethality at a certain point, kinda like how CDR works.
Not xPeke1 votesoh maybe that could work.
GhostOfShrimpmas2 votesI mean, Ekko and Malphite sometimes build no AP, despite all their abilities scaling with it. Hell, most AD champs have an AP ratio or two that they don't care about 95% of the time.
Dessem2 votesKog'Maw has only AP scaling on his basic abilities, but he's often played as ADC. His scalings suggest AP though!
Chembaron Yamada9 votesJhin actually has crit and attack speed scaling in his kit. Does it prevent him from running lethality? No.
50000000000000003 votesI think the point Not Xpeke is making is that assassins, if they get lethality scaling, will be very weak without lethality, and I think that makes sense. I think it's like building AA focused ADCs with full AD without much attack speed or crit.
ChaoticPinecone3 votesIt also opens up the possibility for counters to even be harder-counters. High health and armor targets are hard for assasins to deal with anyway, and the lethality builds make them even harder to deal with. By forcing them to buy lethality, youre putting them in a hole instead of going for a tankier, dps focused build who can still kill squishies (albiet slower) and be able to survive against tanks. By giving them lethality scaling, they cant go for the DPS focused build - they wouldnt be able to kill squishies nor would they survive agasint tanks.
I wouldnt mind if one or two champions had lethality scaling - kind of like how Malphite has armor scaling or Ryze has mana scaling. But forcing all assassins into lethality scaling is a bit much IMO.
Not xPeke3 votes^ What the guy that replied to you said.
Basically, if you were to change the scalings on the Assassin's abilities and make them scale harder with Lethality, you're obviously going to have to take some power away from the base damage or something.
You wouldn't want them to just be given extra damage based on their lethality for free would you?
So yeah.. the introduction of these scalings would make the champion quite a bit weaker if he were to avoid building lethality.
Shadòw3 votesi don't understand why diversity has to be so forced. sometimes less diversity is healthier for the game.
in this case i think this wouldn't make other items useless for Assassins, there would just be bigger tradeoffs they have to consider.
like 
is still strong on Assassins even if the changes to it were meant to make it worse on Assassins.
or 
is another example.
the scalings don't have to be that big so other items would be completely useless, some small scalings on 1 or maximum 2 abilities would do the job already i think.
i think adding some Lethality to the scalings would make (a) Lethality items core on AD Assassins and only AD Assassins, like it should be. (b) Make it less appealing for other classes, especially ADCs. (c) Make AD Assassins have actual tradeoffs when buying Bruiser Items. (so that they are situational, but not useless)
I think this would be the perfect solution so Lethality Items could finally be balanced around Assassins without having to consider that they could get abused.
Not xPeke1 votesYou don't understand. The idea is definitely cool and interesting on paper, however the lethality scalings would probably have to be quite impactful to overcome the "nerf" lethality would take when built on other champions.
If not, you would barely be making a difference and other champions would still be building lethality anyway.
So, with that in mind, the moment you add lethality scalings, you have to take power elsewhere from their kits - like base damage or their AD scaling, or whatever. Whatever change they'd go for, it will mean that without said lethality items, these AD Assassin's would be in a much worse spot than they are now because they would be basically nerfing themselves if they don't buy lethality.
And yes, Diversity doesn't have to be forced. but I don't want to be forced to build the same 2 items either. If I want to experiment a weird build, I'd rather fail because this weird build doesn't offer me as many Pro's as the regular one. I don't want to fail because it's simply impossible to scale without <item>. There's a difference between those 2 cases. Do you understand what I mean now?
Shadòw1 votesnah, i'm pretty sure you can find a perfect balance solution to the scalings and balance lethality around it.
just because there are lethality scalings in there doesn't mean the champion has to build it. a small scaling and a small nerf to lethality would already do the job.
just because 
maw is full of AP scalings doesn't mean you have to build AP to make him scale.
Not xPeke1 votesOk so you didn't understand after all...
First of all your perfect balance solution is easier said than done.
Now, if the champion doesn't HAVE to build lethality then it means the scalings have no real impact, which in turn means that the lethality wasn't "nerfed" as much as intended to make it less viable on other champions, = other champions will still build it.
"Giving power to one part of kit needs to be followed up by removing power from another part." ^ This is what the OP himself said in a reply. And it's true. Hence my point is legit and backed up due to this statement. Do you need me to explain why exactly or can you figure it out?
Again.. you're example with Kog, just like the example of Ekko and Malphite another user used earlier, is not accurate to this situation.
Shadòw1 votesit's true, but that won't make other build paths useless, just more situational.
Bruiser items are too strong on Assassins anyway atm. i understand what you mean, but it is just plain bullshit.
it would simply make that Assassins have to think twice if they want to build or instead of another Lethality item.
just by taking away a small amount of power of an Assassins kit and giving them that back in form of Lethality scalings won't make other builds and items completely useless.
i trust that there is a perfect solution to make it not strong enough for ADCs to abuse it but give some extra power to the class that should build it, but not too much.
also the scalings and nerfs don't have to be that big that it makes it completely useless on ADCs. it could still stay a viable option on ADCs, but they would have to think twice too then.
Not xPeke1 votesno you don't understand or you wouldn't say it's "plain bullshit".
If this change went through builds with no lethality will become weaker than they are now. Pushing them to build Lethality. That's hardly situational. They will objectively be weaker. End of discussion.
The OP himself has recognised this and said so himself after it was pointed out to him... The one who created this Thread and thought of this idea..
You just appear a bit too stubborn (no offence honestly) to realise the points raised are valid and you are trying to power through believing this is a perfectly fine idea.
And sure, there might be a good solution to make it not strong enough for ADCs. And it involves forcing the lethality scaling champions to build lethality over any other item.. like I've been saying. That's the solution. And that's what I don't PERSONALLY like.
If there is another solution to this problem, which is very possible I have an open mind, I still haven't heard it yet. So my point stands for now.
Shadòw1 votesWell testing it out on PBE would not harm anybody
Not xPeke1 votesTrue, I agree.
But with fear of sounding a bit pessimistic, the PBE is hardly effective when it comes to actual balancing. Camille made it past PBE in her state. So did Ekko when he was released. (and I'm an Ekko main, not hating :p) So did Edge of Night (which is STILL a really toxic item), etc etc. The list goes on.
The way I see it, the PBE is a way for Riot to show upcoming releases and changes by using streamers and Youtubers. There doesn't seem to be alot of actual effective balancing going on. But this is a whole other subject I'm getting into so I'll stop :p.
Shadòw1 votestbh that were all Riots faults.
The whole boards were full of posts about Camille and the EoN buffs being broken even when they were still on PBE. And it ended like everybody knew it would end when they still put them on live.
Not xPeke1 votesI know but it happens all the time though. That's why, while I can agree that testing it out on the PBE is fair enough andwhat you said is true, I just can't trust it..
But then I just remember all the stuff that made it past PBE and realise it's never reliable, so I can't expect it to be in this case.
bbQsauçe8 votes[deleted]
50000000000000006 votesThat's a good point. I would suggest introducing more lethality items but putting a hard cap on lethality like CDR. But that's a huge change, and restricting build paths is not my intention.
Shyvana 4 Laifu6 votesPutting additional ratios on a champion would only increase the amount of build viability, no? Unless they remove a ratio (which most of these champions only have AD ratios anyway) they could still do wacky builds. Plus, this could open up potential for different wacky builds.
50000000000000004 votesGiving power to one part of kit needs to be followed up by removing power from another part. My proposal is meant to make assassin items good for assassins and not so much on ADCs. So assuming this change happens, no lethality assassin builds will become weaker.
SH Azykan1 voteswhich is fine because those builds basically do not exist
Spoofghoul4 votesi think this was one of my first suggestions on the topic too in addition to not making it stack so well with other forms of penetration
and that should fix the whole lethality issue pretty much
500000000000000010 votesYeah, mixed penetration feels really shitty ;( Oh, you're stacking lethality AND also build last whisper? Welp, I guess I'm stacking HP...
Woodakoodashooda3 votesLethality does not increase damage. It merely determines the amount of armor that physical damage ignores.
500000000000000019 votesI know that, and I'm just suggesting that lethality actually increases raw damage as well. This would make the items more attractive on assassins, but not other AD casters.
It Hertz When IP1 votesPerhaps by allowing Lethality to effectively set your target's armor to negative, thus causing them to take increased damage from you?
500000000000000013 votesThat'll probably require tons of nerfs to base damage. Not sure if that's a good idea
It Hertz When IP3 votesI mean, if the bonus Lethality on assassin abilities is replacing the various damage boosts they already have (automatic crit, straight bonus damage, etc) it should be pretty easy to tweak the numbers appropriately. I do think, on further reflection, they might have to change some to scaling on bonus AD only instead of total AD. This would drive AD assassins to actually build AD, because by building tank items they're missing out on most of their damage.
Auz the Ripper2 votesPretty much all assassins have pretty much nothing but bonus AD ratios already. I can't even think of any with total AD ratios off the top of my head
Photos of Ghosts3 votesYay, so lethality Quinn would be usable without disgusting oneshots
Vesemir3 votesThe only problem with lethality is the ranged champions abusing it. I am sick of adcs ruining this game. They abused Armor Pen and it got removed, they abused sterakk it got nerfed, they abused Cleaver and it got nerfed. How about we dont let adcs buy whatever they please and be effective? How about we make lethality a melee stat. Adcs can still get the variants of Last Whisper.
Exalomaniac1 votes"abuse" i dont think you know what that word means. ADCs arent the big problem. They are ranged AD carries who kill people with basic attacks. Why shouldnt they be allowed to build Armor penetration to help against squishy foes? Also steraks was abused by Quinn and Graves, who arent ADCs anymore. Cleaver was only built by Lucian. Why do you hate ADCs so much when they are so weak right now?
TTK Dreadnought4 votesCleaver was only built by Lucian.
KETSU02 votesthey constantly whine, they like to claim that assassins are toxic class when they themselves are toxic class imo, Also it doesn't help that they have a personal body guard. the assassin reworks were handled by adc mains (explains the reason why they were shit) who put a crap ton of delays in all their kits. fuck adcs and their b!tch made players
Exalomaniac1 votesseems like you only played with bronze adcs. Nowadays (in plat atleast) ADCs have the lowest impact in teamfights because they die first, no matter what they do. it isnt anymore because they are bad, it is because there is way too much damage in the game than a regular squishy champion can handle. The whole class has degenerated into being bait for ults. That is the reason why champions like Varus, Jhin and MF are the only ADCs nowadays... because they dont have to walk into such an exposed range to deal damage.
KETSU01 votes"..lowest impact in teamfights because they die first, no matter what they do" "The whole class has degenerated into being bait for ults." positioning much?
Exalomaniac1 votesAha. So how do you position around an invisible Kha, an invisible Rengar? Zed with 3 dashes? Talon with parkour and invisiblity? Vi and Naut with guaranteed hits on their ults?
h5LYF41Lam2 votesi mean an assasin jumping on you with a spellshield a mercurias and 150 mr is not enough? he should also have some crazy scaling so that he kills you faster too lul......
50000000000000009 votes"and balance accordingly"
Hexs Fortune2 votesThey dont want to make lethality only good on assassins
fuffychan1 votesLets make AP assassins even more trash great idea 
50000000000000004 votesHow would changing lethality be a nerf to AP assassins?
fuffychan1 votesTheyre already far outclassed and you intend to buff AD assassins more? They have no items intended for them, while AD assassins literally had a stat created for them. AD also gets MR and spell shields on all their items because why not?
50000000000000009 votesThe goal is to make lethality easier to balance by getting other classes to stop building lethality, other than very situationally (ADC building lethality makes sense against squishy comps, but it should make sense for squishy comp only). The "balance accordingly" can mean an overall nerf, if it's necessary. The goal isn't to buff AD assassins, but rather to make lethality items optimal for assassins, but not other classes.
fuffychan1 votesAnd why exactly is it a bad thing if other classes buy lethality?
Legacy Hydralpha3 votesIn reality, it isn't the worse. But when certain champions are really strong when using lethality, it causes lethality items on other champs to be worse just to balance the minority of champions. Other classes can buy lethality, but it won't be the greatest build on them except for cases where the champ normally builds armor pen like 
. Think back to why Riot nerfed Tank 
, it was an alternate playstyle that made the champion stronger than he usually is, and the playstyle got nerfed so that while it can still be used it won't outclass the standard AP Assassin .