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Keystones and Starting-Items for GP

nelogis··2 votes·686 views

Hello everyone! I wanted to make this discussion to hear your opinions or new ideas on how to choose starting items and keystone for GP

I'm going to start with Keystones:

  • Kleptomancy: I will propably be called an idiot for saying this but I actually think that Klepto isn't the best choice for GP, hell it is only decent if you are against Braindead-Tanks and just bad in any other match-up IMO

See getting 5g to Q someone and then a CHANCE to get a consumable is just not worth it. Especially if the enemy retaliates with 20% of your HP gone.

  • Electrolute: I have been finding the most success with this one. The Domination path has some nasty runes for GP (the 2 healing ones for example, where if you Q a minion wave with stattik late game it will give you 40% oh your HP back).

Not only that but it also gives you a buttload of dmg if you proc it. And it is easier procced than you think. Auto-Barrel someone then Q into auto with passive and then run away with your movementspeed buff (Doesn't work well against high range guys in the midlane I know). But your all-ins just got a hell of a lot scarier.

  • Comet: I tried it, don't try it. It's not worth it really. You need to proc it with Barrels and they are quite limited in the early game and late game Comet's dmg isn't something good eiter. + I found the Sorcery Tree not being worth picking up for GP

  • Aery: I mean your dmg in lane just got pumped up across the board but again, late game it's not noticable and you have to again use the Sorcery Tree. And it's also getting nerfed on the PBE so....

  • Grasp: I heard that this Keystone is one of the best if not the best for GP. Though I never tried it and propably never will since I don't like playing GP as a bruiser. I see the benefits this Keystone gives though.

Starting Items

  • Spellthieves: I tried it for a long time and I have to say it's not worth it. Granted if you don't want to do anything in lane and just farm then it MAY be good (You still have to Q the enemy once in a while to get value of this item and your dmg is 0 since the adaptive runes give you AP instead of AD when starting with this item). I would't recommend it against anything but Braindead-Tanks

  • Mana Crystal: If i'm not sure what to get I just get this. Your dmg is here since you now gain AD from adaptive runes and you have more mana to work with (which also means stronger sustain in lane). I'm finding most success with this start overall. You are also only 700g away from Sheen.

  • Corrupted: I think this got outdated with the patch. You have the same dmg and sustain with Manacrystal + refillable IMO. The manacrystal is just more gold efficient than this.

  • Dorans Blade: I guess if you want to man it up you can take this. Otherwise I don't see the appeal

  • Dorans Shield: Yeah I don't see the appeal either in this one.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with me? Do you have a different setup than the things I have listed? If so I'm very eager to know!

18 Comments

Sahn Uzal2 votes

Kleptomancy: I will propably be called an idiot for sayibg this but I actually think that Klepto isn't the best choice for GP, hell it is only decent if you are against Braindead-Tanks and just bad in any other match-up IMO

you're not an idiot, it's overrated af imo.

Electrolute: I have been finding the most success with this one. The Domination path has some nasty runes for GP (the 2 healing ones for example, where if you Q a minion wave with stattik late game if will give you 40% oh your HP back).

oooh I've been wanting to give that one a shot, haven't gotten around to that tho.

Comet: I tried it, don't try it. It's not worth it really. You need to proc it with Barrels and they are quite limited in the early game and late game Comet's dmg isn't something good eiter. + I found the Sorcery Tree not being worth picking up for GP

It's actually pretty nice later on, when your ult will proc it multiple times :P There's better options tho

Aery: I mean your dmg in lane just got pumped up across the board but again, late game it's not noticable and you have to again use the Sorcery Tree. And it's also getting nerfed on the PBE so....

didn't bother trying, it's gonna get nerfed anyway.

Grasp: I heard that this Keystone is one of the best if not the best for GP. Though I never tried it and propably never will since I don't like playing GP as a bruiser. I see the benefits this Keystone gives though.

by far the best keystone imo imo you don't really have to go full bruiser with it, something like Steraks PD IE is fine.

Starting Items

I take Cpot myself. Works well with Grasp, keeps my early purchase options open, while you kinda just wanna go Sheen asap if you take mana crystal. in some severe cases I'll take a Dorans shield, but I avoid it if I can.

Doozku1 votes

Just a question, what do you usually take as a secondary rune path? I almost always go for sorcery but I want to see what other options there are.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Honestly, I don't think there's a ''bad'' secondary path for GP, every tree has some runes that are valuable to GP in it.

Personally, I've been going Inspiration (Stopwatch, Future's Market) or Sorcery (Transcendance, scorch/ultimate hat) secondary

nelogis1 votes

Hmm... do you think Grasp would go well with my build?

item 3078 > item 3031 > item 3087 > item 3508

This is my "usual" build aka when I don't adapt to the game or don't have to. I generally find the Youmuus not that good anymore without the Lethality in my runes.

Well only one way to find out I guess ^^ thx for the input!

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Don't see why not, it gives you a ton of pressence in lane.

Essence Reaver? I've been considering that, but I've always felt like it's just too valuable on him to give up. The midgame spike, the MS Active to help you get combos off etc.

hm, guess I'll be giving ER a shot when I play GP again ^^

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm... do you think Grasp would go well with my build?

item 3078 > item 3031 > item 3087 > item 3508

This is my "usual" build aka when I don't adapt to the game or don't have to. I generally find the Youmuus not that good anymore without the Lethality in my runes.

Well only one way to find out I guess ^^ thx for the input!

you dont use yommu for leathality now, more so the active and cdr(most ppl go it i rarely build yommus). But honestly id see grasp working better with tankplank as it allows better trades. item 3748 item 3078 item 3812 item 3053 (lovely since it procs sheen dmg more)item 3065 item 3047

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPeMpKrM,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2017-11-20T18:32:04.517+0000)

you dont use yommu for leathality now, more so the active and cdr(most ppl go it i rarely build yommus). But honestly id see grasp working better with tankplank as it allows better trades. item 3748 item 3078 item 3812 item 3053 (lovely since it procs sheen dmg more)item 3065 item 3047

also why essence reaver? it gives 30% cdr with that crit . Better going like DD or PD i get it has dmg but DD has 80 AD now and heal versus a 70 AD and some mana return that you dont really need after triforce.

nelogis1 votes

Well your crit chance with just IE + Zeal item is at 50% which is too unreliable, i also dont use the CDR rune in sorcery so I need the CDR from it.

I could get PD yeah but i like the brute DMG ER gives + the infinite Mana

I also get a DD later in the game if i need it

But we are playing 2 completely different builds tbh

You play tankplank that doesnt really need crit

I play full glas-cannon kill or get killed

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

{quoted}

Well your crit chance with just IE + Zeal item is at 50% which is too unreliable, i also dont use the CDR rune in sorcery so I need the CDR from it.

I could get PD yeah but i like the brute DMG ER gives + the infinite Mana

I also get a DD later in the game if i need it

But we are playing 2 completely different builds tbh

You play tankplank that doesnt really need crit

I play full glas-cannon kill or get killed

full glass cannon is item 3078 item 3031 item 3087 item 3812 item 3046 or item 3036 anditem 3158

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPeMpKrM,comment-id=000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-20T19:14:25.797+0000)

full glass cannon is item 3078 item 3031 item 3087 item 3812 item 3046 or item 3036 anditem 3158

ER costs a lot of gold and really is only used for crit chance since the 70 AD is outclassed by DD, LW, Yommu with lethality, and pretty much any other option. ER should only be build late late game by selling another crit item or to change boots. If not then you are leaving gold on the table as pretty much any other option gives better stats. Look up probuild, champion.gg and other top builds and ER is not even on there. It is for a very late game but should be built last as other stats are more useful like steracks with increased sheen dmg and life line.

I like that you are ballsy but with recent changes the more shutdown gold you rack up, the worse it is to die and late game a death is a sure loss almost if you are the one fed. GP waveclear allows for stalling late game and him dying means a tower or objective is gonna get killed.

nelogis1 votes

I find most success with ER after Stattik + the Ravenous Hunter rune for the healing a DD would give

I know that you think a glass cannon GP also needs defensive stuff but I sit in an absurd range with one-parts and triple barrels just like a Xerath. Doesnt mean i never get defensive stuff, against assassins GA or a Steraks works wonders, also the occasional DD in the late game is good when you dont need a last whisper item.

I just think that after ER you have SO much dmg that you become a walking 1-shot machine. And THATS exaclty why i love to play GP.

And LW/Youmuus dont outclass ER dmg wise, a crit from ER will always do more dmg than a normal attack from these 2 (Yeah LW might be the better one against full tanks). I used to take Youmuus because with my runes i had 40 Flat Pen which gave me a HUGE spike in the mid-game but right now with only 20? it just feels meh.

Also pro-builds or op.gg buildpaths dont bother me much.

But I guess we have to agree to disagree here ^^ First part being that we have different playstyles / prefereces the other being that GP is propably one of the most unique Champion in the game build-wise that having a single build path is just not something that can happen on him

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

{quoted}

I find most success with ER after Stattik + the Ravenous Hunter rune for the healing a DD would give

I know that you think a glass cannon GP also needs defensive stuff but I sit in an absurd range with one-parts and triple barrels just like a Xerath. Doesnt mean i never get defensive stuff, against assassins GA or a Steraks works wonders, also the occasional DD in the late game is good when you dont need a last whisper item.

I just think that after ER you have SO much dmg that you become a walking 1-shot machine. And THATS exaclty why i love to play GP.

And LW/Youmuus dont outclass ER dmg wise, a crit from ER will always do more dmg than a normal attack from these 2 (Yeah LW might be the better one against full tanks). I used to take Youmuus because with my runes i had 40 Flat Pen which gave me a HUGE spike in the mid-game but right now with only 20? it just feels meh.

Also pro-builds or op.gg buildpaths dont bother me much.

But I guess we have to agree to disagree here ^^ First part being that we have different playstyles / prefereces the other being that GP is propably one of the most unique Champion in the game build-wise that having a single build path is just not something that can happen on him

Yeah i would agree to that. I really dont like yommus that much because if you get caught out, you get caught out and you learn more by using phage instead of an active to chase ppl down, 9 outta 10 it wont matter. I just cant see ER until late game because Id build some defense item 3 or 4 no matter what. Be it sterecks or GA unless the team is really good and can actually front-line and peel. But I also never really run into a mana problem or cdr mid game. So i just opt for a phantom dancer for cool duels. If it works it works. But stat wise barrels crit enough to where I dont really notice more than 2 crit items.

Paladin 0f Life2 votes

i found the same thing after one count uno game with klepto, if i had more dmg early I would have shit on laner instead of getting ganked and feeding because i was useless until they threw lead. I found electrocute with cheap shot, ghost poro(one of best runes for top laners imo since its a free ward for lane ganks, and relentless hunter even though this tree is whatever you want i just like mobility. Then scorch(lane dominance with Q hint; it offsets potions) and whatever you feel like, trancendace, gathering storm, ultimate hat(ehh not super great), but personally CELERITY (my FAVORITE rune, its a free movespeed rune sheet that allows extra dmg with barrels and yommus).

nelogis1 votes

Yeah your dmg is just non-existant with Klepto

I personally don't like Scorch since it keeps me away of proccing Electrolute under tower I like to dance around the tower range when I'm top and dominating. This "deals dmg after 2 seconds" keeps me away from barraging him down for 2 seconds. Which doesn't sound like much but I really felt the "No I can't go near him because of that rune" more than I would like. In Mid lane it's solid yes (since being near an enemy tower will bring the jungler faster to your lane than you can say life-form-desintegration-ray)

Trancendance is solid too and I don't really like Storm.... games are decided in like 20 minutes and those +14 AD at that point isn't going to do anything.

Celerity... hmm... never thought of this one

So lets say you don't have any boots this rune will give you Base Movementspeed: 345 With rune: 359 After proccing passive: 462 Bonus AD/AP from that: 9.4 AD

So the question is... does that bonus dmg apply to the Barrels already or after you popped a Barrel. It would be pretty good if it procs with the Barrel (as in you gain Movementspeed and then the Barrel DMG goes off, in that case those 9.4 AD apply to the Barrel DMG)

With Boots + passive: 12 AD With Movementspeed Boots + passive: 15 AD

Doesn't sound bad on paper I'm going to give it a shot thx for the idea ^^

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah your dmg is just non-existant with Klepto

I personally don't like Scorch since it keeps me away of proccing Electrolute under tower I like to dance around the tower range when I'm top and dominating. This "deals dmg after 2 seconds" keeps me away from barraging him down for 2 seconds. Which doesn't sound like much but I really felt the "No I can't go near him because of that rune" more than I would like. In Mid lane it's solid yes (since being near an enemy tower will bring the jungler faster to your lane than you can say life-form-desintegration-ray)

Trancendance is solid too and I don't really like Storm.... games are decided in like 20 minutes and those +14 AD at that point isn't going to do anything.

Celerity... hmm... never thought of this one

So lets say you don't have any boots this rune will give you Base Movementspeed: 345 With rune: 359 After proccing passive: 462 Bonus AD/AP from that: 9.4 AD

So the question is... does that bonus dmg apply to the Barrels already or after you popped a Barrel. It would be pretty good if it procs with the Barrel (as in you gain Movementspeed and then the Barrel DMG goes off, in that case those 9.4 AD apply to the Barrel DMG)

With Boots + passive: 12 AD With Movementspeed Boots + passive: 15 AD

Doesn't sound bad on paper I'm going to give it a shot thx for the idea ^^

also yommus and whatever crit item, speed up after barrels procs it, boots, and deadmans. While also giving you additional 4% movespeed which allows you to weave in and out of fights much better

Galiö1 votes

Klepto and ancient coin. More gold than spelltheifs. Cause u cant proc and farm. Also coin gives u crazy mana.

nelogis1 votes

But aren't you getting faceroled by pretty much anything that isn't a tank? Since your DMG is 0?

This setup would mean certain death if you would be facing like an Ori mid lane

I can see it working on Tanks and assassins that are weak pre-6 (Zed/Talon/Akali stuff like that). But a mage or a juggernaut will clap you with that setup IMO.

Galiö1 votes

Talon is one of the strongest 1v1 early... but to your point... yes its situational. But it is also optimal in the situations where Gangplank is a good pick.

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