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I just supported a Viktor as Janna in botlane

Real Sexy Yoona··68 votes·17,475 views

against a caitlyn and brand. Playing defensively would give them a free win in lane so we went all in and destroyed them. After lowering caitlyn's health bar from previous trades where i auto and shield myself while dodging brand spells, I took 2 points on W level 3 and flash W, ignite and autoed the enemy ad. Cait died wasting both her sums, I got first blood, didn't die, snowballed and won. Other lanes were loosing, which meant they four man roamed us bot, but Viktor and I actually carried the game.

I don't know about yall, but I kinda like how non-marksmen champions can fill in the ADC role and come off as viable without bringing back the "ADC in 2017 LUL" meme. I'm seeing more creative games, comps, skirmishes, and team-fights due to this. Janna's passive actually enhances Viktor's ability to kite, and her shield + disengages give him more time to spam his spells. They are both champs who annoy you because they always seems to be faster than you, put them together in a lane as partners and see what happens.

After hitting Diamond in NA, I got sick of the game and didn't play much. Currently, I'm in Korea enjoying league because the games here are a lot more creative and I'm exposed to new play styles. [sg-kiko]

Also, I know everyone thinks janna is a easy shield-bot champion that's broken but I see her as a broken champion that can be beyond god-like broken if you perfect her mechanics (which imo is harder than you think, I've flash tornadoed a predicted kaisa ult before. Janna can be obnoxious). Her early damage is good, so she can be played aggressively. When games end in a 15-20min stomp, more often than not, I do more damage than my ADC and MId. Meta slaves who play janna in a brain-dead-shield-bot manner might play her well, but please, don't group us janna mains together with them. True Janna mains are disgusting human beings that have ascended those fools and the LP system (I know this because I am one myself)

66 Comments

FullmuteAll play25 votes

I know it is kinda offtopic, but if you dodged most of Brand stuns and outraded Caitlyn , it was their fault to lose this lane, and not really due to the fact that Viktor+Janna are strong.

FilDaFunk1 votes

Yeah, I've been thinking: how do you auto and dodge spells at a time?

HeimerLmao4 votes

You walk sideways. Enemy shoots a skillshot. You stop moving by auto attacking so his prediction is off and you dodge the skillshot.

Real Sexy Yoona2 votes

Haha relevant to the topic actually. Ye I know, but once we got that lead after outplaying them and was smashing lane, the enemy sent their fed camille jg and yasuo who won his lane to make a 2 v 4 on us and we still won those fights. The camille jg was really fed (i'm talking about a 5/0/1 kda) and our yi jg was pretty much out of the game cuz he had his red buffs stolen twice, and got killed multiple times. Maybe they just weren't good, but in those 2 v 4 fights, I really felt like the movement speed & Spam spells synergy between viktor and janna was pretty good. I swear after his Q augment + my passive, viktor moved faster than the travel speed of brands Q, maybe i'm exaggerating. And at that point viktor pretty much has a shield the whole time from his Q and my E. He also prioritized and made the most out of his lichbane cd, enough till the point where i got arden to buff his autos and latter Q. Regardless, I just had viktor as my adc for the first time and it was incredibly fun.

Korijenkins11 votes

I've been playing Ziggs/Nami bot and climbed a tier and a half in a few hours. I think we lost 2 games total, winning 6 in a row at one point.

I really don't think the issue is ADCs being weak, more that mages are stronger early and can bully them out of lane. With a duo mage botlane, all it takes is 1 snare to get a kill.

Geauxx7 votes

{quoted}

I've been playing Ziggs/Nami bot and climbed a tier and a half in a few hours. I think we lost 2 games total, winning 6 in a row at one point.

I really don't think the issue is ADCs being weak, more that mages are stronger early and can bully them out of lane. With a duo mage botlane, all it takes is 1 snare to get a kill.

Watched a few streams today, all those streamers kept saying "no adc meta"

I thought it was funny af

Korijenkins3 votes

ADCs need a lot of work right now. There are no items that will ever make the majority of them good again. They need kit changes to be viable. Theres a reason Kai'Sa is good and Tristana is bad.

Edit: More downvotes please, you are all wrong and I'm right. Accept it.

Geauxx17 votes

{quoted}

ADCs need a lot of work right now. There are no items that will ever make the majority of them good again. They need kit changes to be viable. Theres a reason Kai'Sa is good and Tristana is bad.

because kai'sa's current build is litterally full ap.

item 3124 item 3115 item 3089

Scars 2 Success1 votes

{quoted}

because kai'sa's current build is litterally full ap.

item 3124 item 3115 item 3089

I still don't go AP Kaisa. I tried it once and I just didn't like it as much. I personally think that ER and IE are too good on Kaisa to pass up

IcyPepper3 votes

They need kit changes to be viable.

They are viable, they're just not mandatory. They actually have competition in bot lane now, but they're still being picked.

That said, changes to make them slightly more independent and in line with other classes would be a good idea.

Acheron163 votes

They are being picked because (shocker) people actually like playing as them.

But it cant be denied that in this early game snowball meta, marksmen are more of an hindrance than an asset.

IcyPepper3 votes

According to http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend (not the best site, admittedly), marksman are still being played in their meta lane in 92% of games in Plat+

I'm not really buying "people pick them because they like playing as them." They might pick them because they're used to it, or they don't know what else to pick, but it seems that the marksman in bot lane is still more mandatory (or at least viable) than not right now. They have some competition and people are seeing some success, but that beats having them completely mandatory in bot lane with no competition whatsoever which was the case before the huge overhaul.

Shocker, but some of us like some variety in our laning. Even the support role has more variety than the bot lane carry role.

Acheron162 votes

Bet you one of those guys who incessantly whines when a marksman goes to any other lane and does well.

IcyPepper1 votes

No, not really? Quinn top, Miss Fortune mid, Graves jungle, etc etc are fine picks and all and its interesting to see how they fail or succeed. Even Kindred, a marksman designed to jungle, was interesting and I picked her up for a patch to try it out.

If we're to allow other classes to lane in the bot lane against marksman, it would be hypocritical to say that marksman shouldn't be allowed to leave bot lane. Most of those complaints in your ad hominem are usually the whinier melee players in top lane who get poked out, and a quick check of my match history would show I'm a support main who almost never goes top. If you're going to insult me, at least base it in reality because I'm at least drawing from personal experience here.

The Missing Dog1 votes

The last 2 seasons were pretty much 2 to 3 adc on a team in competitive play. They were going adc bot, adc mid, graves jungle. If you had this team comp you pretty much won every game. The last 2 season have been some of the worst seasons in league. Riot realized they needed to change this. I don't see the problem with adc being weaker then what they were. It was horrible trying to kill someone even when you got the jump on them and in still 1 second they do 2k damage to you, then life steal for 500hp with just boots and 2 other items completed. Even if you were 4-5 items completed they still crush you like it was nothing.

Acheron161 votes

I'll be homest with you. I don't give a flying fuck about competitive gaming.

Acheron161 votes

Complains about ad hominem yet uses annecdotal appeal.

Classic.

Daddy Ants5 votes

{quoted}

I've been playing Ziggs/Nami bot and climbed a tier and a half in a few hours. I think we lost 2 games total, winning 6 in a row at one point.

I really don't think the issue is ADCs being weak, more that mages are stronger early and can bully them out of lane. With a duo mage botlane, all it takes is 1 snare to get a kill.

No, they need the costs lightened up a bit on zeals and a reasonable compensation for the loss of IE.

IE alone was +25% damage overall.

2600 -> 2900 was way too steep.

2600 -> 2700/2750 would of been sufficient imo.

Geauxx1 votes

{quoted}

No, they need the costs lightened up a bit on zeals and a reasonable compensation for the loss of IE.

IE alone was +25% damage overall.

2600 -> 2900 was way too steep.

2600 -> 2700/2750 would of been sufficient imo.

No, the actual problem is crit+IE itself now. The new IE is meant to counter tanks but not dominate anything else.

Were in a no tank meta... at best you might see a bruiser, but you won't see tanks unless someone got autofilled.

BEK Makadur3 votes

I don´t think that ADC´s are that bad tbh. We don´t need to talk about non crit adcs. Crit adcs did take a hit, but they probably mostly need to adapt their builds. Like stormrazor first item.

And that u can play other things than adc on bot is imo very good and how it should be.

The Missing Dog1 votes

There is no tanks because resistance is garbage. No one plays pen items on any champion at all. So to be a tank all you can do is stack hp for best results. This is why tanks are just troll in this game atm. You don't tank damage, you do no damage, what is the point of playing a class that literally just rolls over to everyone else in the game atm.

revliledpembroke1 votes

6 wins in a row... no, I don't think that computes.

ZephyrDrake6 votes

when over half the ADC roster is literally unplayable trash this is what happens

D357R0Y3R5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Real Sexy Yoona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEE00TIY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-09T07:51:45.877+0000)

against a caitlyn and brand. Playing defensively would give them a free win in lane so we went all in and destroyed them.

that's because cait has the lowest base ad of marksmen and the lowest base hp to compensate her range

Danjeng5 votes

Morg Ryze bot lane. Ryze can definitely win skirmishes with his strong dps/burst, tankiness, and AoE. He can set up his 2 second root into morg's 3 second root, into morg's 1.5 stun, all the while dealing uninterupted dps with black shield. It's pretty much a death sentence if enemy ADC comes within his range.

Autrah Fang1 votes

{quoted}

Morg Ryze bot lane. Ryze can definitely win skirmishes with his strong dps/burst, tankiness, and AoE. He can set up his 2 second root into morg's 3 second root, into morg's 1.5 stun, all the while dealing uninterupted dps with black shield. It's pretty much a death sentence if enemy ADC comes within his range.

you monster...

I like it. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Smitty Manjensen3 votes

If it worked once, doesn't mean it will work in the long term, just saying.

Real Sexy Yoona2 votes

agreed. But since it worked once, it's not impossible to happen again. I just had so much fun and hope for creative games like these to happen more often than not.

rtbf2256182413 votes

What's the point of this post? That Janna is strong? Yeah, not big news.

Pika Fox2 votes

Yeah, the counter to brand is all inning him asap.

PapaGreg212 votes

I have yet to see anybody play anything but an adc this year in bot.

Mizaya2 votes

Pretty much any ranged damage dealer (or in some cases melee like Mordekaiser Irelia Yasuo ) can be viably played bot now I'd say. Support has always been the deciding factor.

ADCs that need 3 items to spike typically need 25+ min at the least to reach that spike as the previous patch delayed that spike by 900 gold. Picking a champion bot that spikes harder at 1-2 items gives your team a sizable advantage which is all the more relevant when games last less than 25 min on average. Exactly why Lucian MissFortune Ezreal are strong for example while Twitch Jinx Tristana are weak.

Personally I actually like this change for botlane since you still have at least some viable ADCs, but stuff like Vlad/Ziggs/Yasuo, etc. will likely become viable as bot laners. I do think some of the ADCs that can only go crit and aren't even good with stormrazor should get some buffs though just to make it feel less punishing to play them.

SanKakU2 votes

I always preferred Viktor bottom over Viktor middle, but after they gutted his ultimate, it's been hard to appreciate him as a champ. Cool story though.

Autrah Fang2 votes

what have you done?? Viktor and Janna W damage are gonna get nerfed and Caitlyn is gonna get buffed now!!

[sg-miss-fortune]

Icestar11862 votes

I've been experimenting with Nashor's Tooth Orianna bot, but haven't had much success yet.

Disulfiram1 votes

What if, in response to this, we sent the adc top and the tank bot? Many tanks can handle mages, some even 2v1, and adcs can bully most melee toplaners.

Vlada Cut2 votes

{quoted}

What if, in response to this, we sent the adc top and the tank bot? Many tanks can handle mages, some even 2v1, and adcs can bully most melee toplaners.

As much as I want a tank and sup to go to the same lane, but leaving ADC's on a solo lane is a bad idea, roaming assasins/junglers can feast on them pretty easily. I'd personally rather just open the bot lane to other classes rather than ope ing other lanes for adc's.

SanKakU3 votes

To me, your response roughly translates to:

Let's just stay in lane casually last hitting minions while our opposing team's support, jungle, and middle all go top to kill the marksman top. LUL

I feel like half the time I'm doing something off meta, my allies just want our team to fail and blame me, like they're not willing to play the game for fun at that point because the champ pick already 'ruined their fun'.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

I mean I played a game literally right now where our Vayne top got camped and was 0/5 by like 7 minutes. Marksman can't go top because any competent jungler is going to pitch a tent because it is LITERALLY a free kill and tons of pressure off the map where your top laner gets straight up free farm and you get tons of money and exp for showing up.

SanKakU1 votes

To be fair, Vayne doesn't even seem good top lane. Now I have seen her do quite well in the jungle though. There just aren't enough walls up there.

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

To me, your response roughly translates to:

I feel like half the time I'm doing something off meta, my allies just want our team to fail and blame me, like they're not willing to play the game for fun at that point because the champ pick already 'ruined their fun'.

And? You are using a bad translator then. Because I said I was AGAINST the idea of maki g marksmen going solo in a lane. And why would support, jungle and mid all roam on a solo marksmen lane on the first place? Because they can't dissengage. Will you be blamed for? Sadly yes. Because let's say I got top Vayne, my team will blame me for not going as an actual lane bully like Jayce or Quinn. They'll just look at you as a solo adc trolling the game...

SanKakU2 votes

On one hand, it's generally reasonable to wonder if your allies picked appropriate champs for their slot on the team. On the other, it's generally passive aggressive and potentially toxic to point out which champ they are playing and which slot it is. I've had a lot of the same problems as Kayle top as I've had playing any marksman, but the difference is if I end up getting camped hard and die a lot as Kayle, my team doesn't rage at me and continues being civil and trying to win with me. But if I take Kayle to support slot my bottom lane partner just AFK at fountain/tower or if I take 'ADC' to top and try to play it as a bruiser I get people refusing to teamwork half the time.

The capabilities of the champ have nothing to do with allies' expectations of the champ's performance, and that's a sign of a toxic community.

ahferroin71 votes

The issue, as you've pointed out, is that you have to play aggressive if you're not going as a marksman bot lane. There's just no other option. This in turn means that you really need to know what you're doing to make it work, otherwise you'll just die a bunch of stupid deaths and lose lane anyway.

FWIW, Ziggs is a lot of fun bot in place of a marksman, provided you have a support like Janna who has really good defensive ability. Swain can be fun too if you're really good with him (he actually makes a good support with the right marksman too).

Also, entirely agreed on Janna. She's one of those who it's easy to play at a basic level, but hard to play really well. I don't play her much anymore (got distracted by TK when he came out, then lost interest in playing support for a while, and now mostly play tanky supports), but when I did I used to dumbfound people by using my ult to cut off enemies who were escaping (got a triple on her once because my ADC didn't follow up on me shoving the enemy bot lane and jungler under turret). Making stuff like that work is not easy, and really does take skill.

SanKakU5 votes

Nah, you have to play aggressive no matter what your lane partner picked. Passive support play is a joke.

ahferroin71 votes

I meant the lane in general has to play aggressive, not the support specifically. You're right you pretty much have to play aggressive as a support no matter what, but if you're playing something other than a marksman as the main person in lane, you can't just sit back and farm while your support fields enemy attacks for you, or you're going to lose.

Add921 votes

You disgust me because you are self aware of your true nature PepeHands

Real Sexy Yoona1 votes

Aye whenever I hear "Janna is freelo, anyone can play her". I'm like you guys have no fking idea, she might be freelo by default, but in the hands of a determined janna main, she transcends humanity and becomes a god.

TrevorAlu1 votes

WE STAN YOONA

Real Sexy Yoona1 votes

yeet

potchiker1 votes

Can we start a " ADC IN 2018 " meme after the only adcs that arent totally garbage ( Kaisa Ezreal Lucian ) get nerfed to the ground

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