Im getting bored of playing vs assasins now ...

l MrD l·Aug 12, 2019·41 votes·13,618 views

Surely its time to tone damage down so assasins arent spammed and are thought about strategically how to get kills rather than rushing lehtality and blowing things up

64 Comments

TekkenPlayerAug 12, 201935 votes

everyone's getting tired of playing vs assassins

Sewer SideAug 12, 20196 votes

Nah not really. You can still pick tanks and zone them or you could just not feed them. Most assassins are shit after mid game

Playing as an assassin, there’s is little you can do if the enemy team makes sure you don’t get one shot out of control and start grouping up.

Assassins take away a lot of team gold for themselves and have little objective pressure/power. Well rounded comps and not aimlessly splitpushing away from your team hard counters assassins.

WoonStruckAug 12, 201917 votes

Since when have assassins been shit after mid-game post-season 6? Most are capable of free-farming atm, unlike back when they were properly balanced.

Assassins have plenty of objective pressure because they zone anyone without 2 armor/hp items completely out of a fight provided they aren't behind.

If assassins are so easy to play around, why are they so common in pro play any time they're decent?

Sewer SideAug 12, 20194 votes

There’s like 3 assassins in pro play. And almost none of the ones who Boards cries about (like Zed or Fizz).

But let me flip the question - if tanks are so shit like Boards love to profess, why are there so many in pro play?

AnateraAug 12, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X146Nmxz,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-12T07:41:46.670+0000)

There’s like 3 assassins in pro play. And almost none of the ones who Boards cries about (like Zed or Fizz).

But let me flip the question - if tanks are so shit like Boards love to profess, why are there so many in pro play?

NO ONE CARES ABOUT PRO PLAY. WE CARE ABOUT THE ONES WE ARE MOST LIKELY TO FIGHT AGAINST.

Oh my fucking god dude...

Sewer SideAug 12, 20192 votes

Are you joking?

The comment I replied to literally was talking about pro play in the last paragraph.

Please don’t join in if you cannot read, it’s really fucking rude to derail like that.

AnateraAug 12, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X146Nmxz,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-12T10:09:45.811+0000)

Are you joking?

The comment I replied to literally was talking about pro play in the last paragraph.

Please don’t join in if you cannot read, it’s really fucking rude to derail like that.

...Yeah? Unfortunately I can only reply to one of you at a time, so sorry for that I guess.

General Esdeath Aug 12, 20195 votes

Why was Galio such a problem in pro play and not solo queue? Why was nobody on the boards calling Galio OP while he was so strong in pro play?

Sewer SideAug 12, 20192 votes

Is this another joke?

There’s been several times when Galio has been a problem in both formats.

Also, one of the assassins a problem in pro (Akali) has never had a positive winrate in solo queue, nor been exceptionally strong in solo queue.

If you think Boards doesn’t have a bias against assassins or for tanks, you need better glasses.

General Esdeath Aug 12, 20194 votes

I never saw a single post with positive upvotes calling Galio OP before his flash+taunt mechanic was revmoed, just how he's too weak. Akali doesn't need a high win rate for people to hate her, they hate her kit. Imagine if Swain's W took longer to detonate but did 500% max HP true damage and instantly killed champions it hit, and the rest of his skills did 20 damage at all ranks with a 5% AP scaling. That kit would have a horrible win rate, probably 30%, but people would still hate playing against it.

MortismoAug 14, 20191 votes

Because the boards is a bunch of whining silver players thinking their voice matters

IainG10Aug 13, 20192 votes

I am not in pro play, so I give exactly 0 fucks about what is. I play in SoloQ, and it is assassin-infested.

But to answer your question; a coordinated team of 5 people who play together most days and are on voice comms can make far more use of an engage tank than 5 total strangers who have, in all likelihood, muted each other even on text comms. It is also far less shitty to BE the tank in this situation than in SoloQ....

Sewer SideAug 13, 20191 votes

So i’m being criticized for bring up pro play when I’m replying to woon who brought it up first.

EU reading comprehension

IainG10Aug 14, 20191 votes

You both mentioned it, but your comment was the best place in the discussion to respond. I also didn't criticise you for mentioning it, I was stating my (and I imagine many, many other peoples') opinion on it.

ImsoBadMainAug 13, 20191 votes

LOL Your an assassin main.

Sewer SideAug 13, 20191 votes

No, I main ADCs lmao

Clone Is FriendAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

everyone's getting tired of playing vs assassins

i play an "assassin" and im getting tired of playing against them

BlueBilberryAug 12, 20195 votes

The League Ecology is out of balance and the current meta is at the height of "unfun". Anytime you see in Challenger or Pro play team comps that feature a lack of adcs, tanks and/or mages you know that the balance in the game has broken down.

PzyXoAug 12, 20193 votes

why none is getting that assassins are the most weak role in the game after tanks ? I mean adcs are the most op shit rn and none is complaining. but y'all cry when a Zed oneshot your ass as he's supposed to do... wtf

LauchmelderAug 12, 20198 votes

A Zed oneshotting me if he plays it well and hits all his abilities isn't what I complain about. A Zed missing all of his abilities and taking half of my HP because he could AA me once is where the problem lies.

PzyXoAug 12, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X146Nmxz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-12T10:34:39.640+0000)

A Zed oneshotting me if he plays it well and hits all his abilities isn't what I complain about. A Zed missing all of his abilities and taking half of my HP because he could AA me once is where the problem lies.

Yeah :) what about a Kai'Sa that just 2 AA Q to kill you ?

Jennifer420Aug 12, 20193 votes

remember when zed used to buy botrk + hydra cause he needed both actives for his ult? now he gets duskblade. done.

DeνiruchiAug 13, 20194 votes

Currently, Zed can build whatever the fuck he wants and still burst you if you're not a tank or a bruiser, even without lethality. It just takes him an extra second, even without electrocute. https://imgur.com/4XaUBwd

RazelthAug 12, 20192 votes

I'm getting bored of playing vs Mages now ...

I can't pretend anymore that being spammed with a long range CC that will let them instakill me if I don't dodge it is fun.

3TWarriorAug 13, 20193 votes

kind of like getting in range X of an assassin and instantly dying? though watching streamers, this season looks fairly decent but people get collapsed on all at once

RazelthAug 13, 20191 votes

At least assassins are at risk of dying. Mages just spam at 1000 range away in the middle of their team.

3TWarriorAug 13, 20193 votes

that's kind of their job? several marksmen and other classes do the same

mages pop if you get to them...assassins make most classes go pop

RazelthAug 13, 20191 votes

Yeah I can't get to them if they're 1000 range away in the middle of their team spamming a CC ability that pretty much ensures death if I'm hit.

Marksmen don't CC me for 2 seconds to full rotation me, and even then they have to get far closer to me than mages.

Yeah mages pop if you get to them. Then you realize you can't because they're far away in the middle of 3 other people and they can run if they don't think their CC will hit lol.

3TWarriorAug 14, 20191 votes

Ashe (global) Caitlyn traps Jinx root Kalista ~~stun~~ edit: knockup Varus ~~stun~~ edit: root Vayne displacement/conditional stun

as just examples of marksmen that use crowd control as part of their playstyle

Blitzcrank typical instant death relocation Jayce high damage combos with large poke damage Graves I don't think anyone wants this one in their face, let alone his Q damage Gnar long range poke damage and decent burst damage with mobility and crowd control

crowd control typically gets no lower than 4 seconds(after cooldown reduction) unless it's short ranged

here's an example, Xerath , long range, but the cooldown is between 13 and 6 seconds depending upon how much the xerath has invested and cooldown reduction

Anivia one of the slowest skillshots in the game, as in, most people will meme you if you get hit by this anywhere OTHER than close to mid range

Velkoz pretty much has to hit you dead center because it has a delay of 0.55 seconds, it's also his shortest ranged ability, at 800, which is fairly close to marksman range. it's probably one of the better CC in the game with that delay time, but depending upon what type of target you are and if you have an average reaction time, you can typically bait it out or just react to it 16 to 6.6 seconds

Lux her most telegraphed ability...unless she intends to poke you, there is really not a time she is NOT going to use it and if they're grouped together to protect her, your own back line should be jumping at the opportunity to blast them , 13 to 5.5 seconds

#where is your front line who should be engaging? Where is your own back line making picks for you? Is your support or marksman not covering for you in bottom lane? Do you not build magic resist in top lane? Were you counter-picked/countered ?

NaughtyWordAug 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

(global)

Eh, practically Enchanted Crystal Arrow (R) is mostly used as an engage/disengage tool because Ashe has zero inherent mobility. Sure, occasionally it can be used as an execute but since it scales off of AP it doesn't do a ton of damage in most cases (unless you are playing against AP Ashe which is garbage).

Really what gets people is Frost Shot and the rune Approach Velocity.

Also, Varus doesn't have a stun, Chain of Corruption (R) is a root.

3TWarriorAug 14, 20191 votes

my bad, I always get his mixed up with Morgana

RazelthAug 14, 20191 votes

Those ADCs don't get to just instantly kill me because I got hit by their CC is what I'm saying lol.

I'm confused why you're showing Blitzcrank, Jayce, Graves and Gnar but alright. I don't think Blitz will ever be an ADC.

See here's where my annoyance stems from. If Lux ever hits me with her 1175 range telegraphed ability I'm just dead if I haven't stacked health or MR. I can't punish her because she puts down a slowing field while walking away. Sure, I get that its my mistake. Sometimes though, you just lose track.

I'm probably the frontline and I don't think I can engage that far unless I'm playing Malphite. My backline is probably also throwing some CC ability every 5 secs that will let us get a free kill while being extremely safe lol. I'm confused what you mean by my support and marksman covering for me but alright. My ADC doesn't have 1k range. Funnily enough, most toplaners have to buy a Black cleaver or Triforce as their first item with maybe a tiamat. We can only get merc treads until our core items to be relevant.

Next time let's not bold off an entire paragraph. It honestly sounds pretentious and condescending IMHO.

3TWarriorAug 15, 20191 votes

perhaps I should have put a line after the first group of marksman as that was meant to indicate the ones who use crowd control. The examples of blitzcrank, jayce, etc, were to show that mages are not the only champions with long-range power budgets and deadly conditions

just about every champion class EXCEPT traditional supports (and even they can build for it) can do large amounts of damage and can even bolster their effectiveness with crowd control

typically what defines a mage: some utility or crowd control, ranged abilities, consistent usage of abilities throughout the game, very weak defensively (if not a battle-mage, as they give up some of their strengths for defense)

#I was trying to cover all of the bases because you never mentioned how or why you had a problem with it, just that they could do it. The marksmen/support thing are for covering their bottom lane

as for bolding an entire paragraph, mages tend to be the most balanced class in the game and I was trying to attract your attention to those points BECAUSE there is plenty that can be done in matchups against mages and in the team-fight phase. As for top lane, you can quite literally build magic resist as your starting item if your opponent is a mage, or you can put some money into magic resist after you get item 3077 or item 3057

If you are an immobile top laner in such a situation, sustain is the name of the game: potions, health regen, items to make it where your opponent is unable to do as they please, otherwise, you are playing right into their hands and letting them make you useless anyway

by the time you are roaming, you will likely have enough gold to buy MR anyway

If you are a juggernaut not named mundo, poke damage and range tends to be the natural counter to juggernauts, especially if they do not build MR because they are Immobile and typically weak during the team-fight phase

RazelthAug 15, 20191 votes

Did you just tell me I can build magic resist as my starting item as a top laner? All right. Peace. Your lack of game knowledge is really showing.

3TWarriorAug 16, 20192 votes

item 1033 + item 2003 for an aggressive laner or

item 2033 for someone like Darius or etc because their INTENDED WEAKNESS is range...

You have to adapt based upon your opponent, and quite a few top laners do not even care if their opponent is ranged. Jax for instance can engage a ranged opponent as early as level 2 unless they burn flash or are Vayne Quinn Vladimir Lulu

if they are champions such as those, you call for ganks because they are built to deal with ONE TARGET

look at the team comps when the game starts(you're given at least a minute during the loading phase). If it's suspiciously lacking a typical top-laner, consider building in advance or wait until the lane phase to see who your opponent is. It may cost a teleport, but losing a summoner spell is better than fighting a matchup you know you can't get around with a disadvantage

RazelthAug 16, 20191 votes

You're really telling me to start magic mantle and potion? Can you post on your main? You're posting on some random account. I'm just curious what rank you have to be to tell someone to start magic mantle and potion unironically.

Why are you even going off on this tangent? I really don't remember complaining about ranged laners lol.

3TWarriorAug 16, 20192 votes

I have been attempting to cover every base, especially your points about range. Mages get long range but in return they get typically pitiful defenses

most of your posts have included at least one complaint about mages in general and several of our posts have put emphasis on top lane

here is the most important remark regarding the lane phase

Funnily enough, most toplaners have to buy a Black cleaver or Triforce as their first item with maybe a tiamat. We can only get merc treads until our core items to be relevant.

for example about your complaints about their range, if you are darius or another immobile laner, you know you are the front line but you are not going to get to them because that is not your job

#Why do you complain about mages' range?

if anything, if your team members are not doing their jobs when you are not equipped to deal with mages, it should be the team you give suggestions to or work with, or you work around your own weaknesses

If you are playing a champion where it is not your job in the team to deal with mages, do not engage them. If you are the front-line, your focus should be on the job that you can do

#assassins, supports, mages and mobile melees deal with mages, for that matter, pretty much anyone that can attack a mage can kill them if they are not a battle mage

if someone snags you with CC from fog of war, you got out-played by a more resourceful team. You have to play with your team's strengths against your opponents' weaknesses

1000 AP One ShótAug 13, 20192 votes

feels awful to play adc rn. You try to even auto their front line and nope. The enemy assassin one shots you. You have perfect positioning? Hahahaha you were within the assassin's screen width so you die now. You can build guardian angel, but you're still out of the fight for a super long time before you revive plus you're not going to have the revive every time you get dived by the assassin.

LibidoAug 12, 20191 votes

Whats wrong with everyone being Faker?

Hong Kong AnnieAug 12, 20192 votes

"When everyone is Faker, no one will be." - someone at Riot, probably.

Light BurnerAug 12, 20191 votes

https://u.gg/lol/tier-list?role=middle Learn to read 6 assassins show up in the top 20 mid laners. 10 mages show up in the top 20 mid laners. 4 bruisers show up in the top 20 mid laners.

From what stats show mages are the busted ones that need to be toned down because bruisers + assassins = mages.

3TWarriorAug 13, 20195 votes

and every assassin has many times the play rate of the mages, near equal win rates, and only zed is not in the top 10...

Aurelion sol looks so busted right...with his 1% pick rate...next highest win rate: fizz, with SEVEN TIMES his pick rate, FORTY TIMES his ban rate

I can go even more into numbers, but how about how SKEWED this is when you compared that mages OUTNUMBER ASSASSINS FIVE TO ONE, with that in mind, assassin population is actually HIGHER THAN MAGES in addition to their already HIGHER pick rates

let's give a simple example. If there are 10 assassins viable mid and 30 mages viable mid, 2 out of 3 assassins are in the top 20 and 1 in 3 mages are

if you take this even further with the top 10, 5/10 assassins are top 10 and ...

#actually, i'm not even sure where you're getting your numbers from

top 10 assassins: Fizz Talon Katarina (as confirmed assassins) top 10 mages: AurelionSol Malzahar Velkoz Morgana
top 10 bruiser: Rumble top 10 neither assassin nor mage: Diana Ahri (given all the crazy involving her and diana plays like an assassin but is technically a bruiser )

comparatively, 3 assassins for 4 mages, which is again skewed when mages outnumber assassins 4 or 5 to 1

Light BurnerAug 13, 20192 votes

and every assassin has many times the play rate of the mages, near equal win rates -2% off is not near by the slightest. (Fizz to Sol since you compared the 2) -Just because people enjoy playing as a champ and because others find it annoying to play against a champ doesnt mean the champ is overpowered. Yasuo gets banned a shitload has a 49% winrate and im pretty sure if i wasnt gonna be lazy about this i could find you other champs who fit this same category. So stop using pickrate banrate winrate to defend yourself.

"I can go even more into numbers, but how about how SKEWED this is when you compared that mages OUTNUMBER ASSASSINS FIVE TO ONE" -Where did i even say this i literally typed out and ill quote: "6 assassins show up in the top 20 mid laners. 10 mages show up in the top 20 mid laners. 4 bruisers show up in the top 20 mid laners."

how does 6 assassins and 10 mages make a 5 to 1 ratio?

Now theres 12 mages in the top 20. And yet lets ignore that and attack assassins because either mages dominate mid lane or we arent happy.

3TWarriorAug 13, 20194 votes

when his play rate is SEVEN TIMES aurelion sol's...and ban rate is FORTY TIMES aurelion sol's...2% is nothing. You have a ONE IN ONE HUNDRED chance of playing against an aurelion sol. You have roughly ONE IN FOURTEEN chance of playing against Fizz

now, who seems more likely to win...a balanced champion that is seen one in one hundred matches(and probably only played by mains), or an assassin that is seen one in fourteen matches

54% win rate is low for a 1% pick rate champ

#apparently, you misunderstood. there are 4 to 5 mages for every 1 assassin in the game, of course there are going to be a larger number of them in the "top" unless assassins become so completely broken to push out all of their competition from the top spots

now, almost HALF of assassins from mid lane are still in that top ranking...what does that say about them? Their ban rate is higher, their play rate is higher, their win rate is ROUGHLY EQUAL TO OR EXCEEDS mages...

how does that NOT say problematic or overpowered?

#this was probably caused by the typo "compared" as it should have been "compare"

Light BurnerAug 13, 20191 votes

You contradicted yourself and ill explain how. "now, who seems more likely to win...a balanced champion that is seen one in one hundred matches(and probably only played by mains), or an assassin that is seen one in fourteen matches" -By adding "a balanced champion" for sol you're implying fizz is not balanced, then you turn around and say :

"of course there are going to be a larger number of them (referring to mages) in the "top" unless assassins become so completely broken to push out all of their competition from the top spots"

-If theyre broken as you say then they would push them out of the top spots you said this yourself. the fact that they arent and theres more mages than assassins in these areas is all the proof i need. You're proving my point more than your own point.

I get what you're saying with the higher pick rate but you cant judge pickrate as an end all be all factor and i already went over why ban rate isnt the most accurate tool to use either.

3TWarriorAug 13, 20192 votes

it implies that fizz MIGHT NOT be balanced, not that he IS NOT balanced. Fizz is arguably one of the most balanced assassins but his numbers are still pretty good and he holds the same advantage of being able to kill any target he can get to, which is the problem with assassins in general right now

that is not a contradiction. Fizz even has an average play rate and win rate. Fizz was SPECIFICALLY AN EXAMPLE IN THE FLAWS OF YOUR ARGUMENT. Assassins have more power and influence than their opposition.

I can provide examples of my arguments while you go for semantics and questionable methods of attempting to prove your point by misrepresenting what I have stated.

here are my points:

assassins have higher pick rates
assassins have higher ban rates
assassins have equal or higher win rates
more mages will occupy the "top" positions than assassins simply due to math. There are a smaller number of assassins than mages in the game.

If assassins were not at an advantage in these metas (plural), their numbers would not be higher except for play rate simply because there are very few assassins

I stated that assassins would have to be "COMPLETELY BROKEN" in order to push others out of the top spots entirely, this would imply that they would be the best possible choice at all times should that be the case. Right now, they are at an advantage, not unbeatable, but not necessarily fair to play against

We are arguing in circles, but I would ask that you could "prove" your argument instead of simply saying something that I have already addressed thus far

Light BurnerAug 13, 20191 votes

Prove what arguement? The burden of proof is on the accuser. You're accusing assassins of being too strong and you want them to be toned down. The burden to prove that is on you.

I can go right back into the playrate, pickrate, and banrate and why these are accurate representations of the champions power but again you'll just repeat yourself and say im going off semantics.

1.assassins have higher pick rates 2.assassins have higher ban rates 3.assassins have equal or higher win rates 4.more mages will occupy the "top" positions than assassins simply due to math. There are a smaller number of assassins than mages in the game.

These are your 4 points so ill tackle these briefly. Restating my points of why ban rate, pick rate, and play rate arent always accurate indicators of a champions power in the current meta.

Points 1 2 and 3. Lets take Akali for example since you want proof. Sitting currently at 47.56% win rate with a 19% ban rate and a 9.3 % pick rate. Despite being tier D and a low winrate people continue to pick and play her and shes sitting at a 19% winrate where as fizz is sitting at a 12% ban rate. What this shows isnt the champion is op but people do not enjoy playing against the champion. Now you can say "but akali is an assassin so you're only proving my point", so ill go one step further. Irelia and yasuo fall under same category. To further this argument ill use a mage as well in vladimir. There are just champions from every class people dont like playing against but it doesnt mean these champions are overpowered or too strong.

Point 4. You said it yourself, more mages will occupy top spots because theres more mages than there are assassins in the game. So if you bring a mage player he has the choice of 30 champions lets say (didnt count) but if you bring an assassin player he only gets to choose from 10. So of course mage players arent going to have higher play rates on one specific champion, now if we were to add up the play rates of all mages vs the play rates of all assassins you'd say theres more mages than assassins so that's not fair but that proves mages are played more often in mid than assassins.

I'll give you my opinion on why people ban assassins so often, its mobility. Players hate to be punished for their mistakes and they'd rather blame the champion for punishing their mistakes than themselves for being greedy or misplaying. If lux lands a full combo and wipes someone the player says "damn if i dodged her snare she couldnt wipe me" while when playing against zed, Zed W's into him and R's him and we'll kill him off a decently placed Q and then some E's and autos. The player thinks to himself as doesnt wanna say "oh i pushed up too far when im weaker than this zed" because it implies inferiority which people hate to do so instead "stupid champ busted needs to be nerfed".

Theres a couple things wrong with this logic aside from the obvious points. Assassins are meant to be stronger in the early game whereas mages are the stronger scaling champs. Its like saying if Caitlyn beats Vayne in lane that means caitlyn needs a nerf or is too strong. It doesnt work like that, matchups matter. If you want an example from top lane Darius vs Jax or Renekton vs Jax. Its not that darius and Renekton are too strong, its Jax has a weak early game and the player playing jax needs to understand and respect that. Players refuse to understand these concepts of power spikes and instead take it out on the champions instead of their lack of knowledge.

3TWarriorAug 14, 20191 votes

first off, you appear to be using average win rates instead of high elo and should cite what source you use when referring to information

here's akali's diamond+ win rate in North America : https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/akali/na/diamond

49.3 % , in master+ , her win rate is average 56.4%

her worldwide averages for diamond+ : 48.6% and 49.2% for master , which are fairly average for a high skill-cap champion

then, when you look at her best players, win rates between 60 and 80%, also notable of powerful champions: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/akali

1. Akali is one of the worst examples you could have chosen. She has been repeatedly nerfed at the players expense because Riot did not listen to the advice given to them. By your own source, Akali is not even anywhere near the top choice for mid lane, ranking at # 38 on their list in platinum, 34 in diamond, 24 in master, 21 in challenger

why is she so low? because she is not meant to be played by the average player because when you get beyond good with her, she is exceptional

now, back to your source, going by RANKING TIERS for champion efficiency in the platinum+ division YOU CHOSE, #1 , Zed Zed , #2 Fizz Fizz , #3 Katarina , #7 Talon Talon , #11 Kassadin(who is just barely not in the top 10) and in this ranking, there are more assassins than there are actual mages(actual as in able to be properly classified. Ahri for example plays like an assassin but has odd damage as rather low for either mage or an assassin and WAS an assassin before the changes to AP playstyles and items such as Deathfire Grasp)

These champions are Malzahar (an anti-assassin character), Vladimir (a champion an assassin can only burst kill if they get lucky and very well-rounded for most situations except crowd control), and Morgana Morgana, a champion who specializes in fighting mages and typically builds bulky for a mage while having a safe and efficient laning phase

Now, back to akali, akali is #41 on that list and among the lowest, again, because the average player can not handle her, but at higher ranks, she has enough pressure that if you let a GOOD akali player through, they will destroy you along with her VERY ANNOYING playstyle, hence her 20% ban rate

source: https://u.gg/lol/tier-list?role=middle

#3) Irelia and Yasuo are NOT ASSASSINS. Irelia is actually something more dangerous, a diver that plays like an assassin. She is a bruiser and builds like a bruiser, but she MOVES AND PLAYS like an assassin. Yasuo is an ADcarry, hyper carry melee. While mobile, he does not play or move like an assassin

Assassins are frail characters that dive into a fight and then get out as quickly as they can, having hopefully accomplished their objective. Irelia's entire kit is built around her bruiser stats and items. yasuo has a plethora of defenses and does not move or play like an assassin

Irelia has been repeatedly nerfed due to her ability to completely control a situation if the player is good enough and like akali, is not a champion the AVERAGE player can handle while still having an annoying playstyle, two reasons for her ban rate in higher divisions. If she had the execute potential of an assassin or still had some of her earlier power, her ban rate would still be high, having had excessive values in the past https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/irelia/diamond (see more )

now if we were to add up the play rates of all mages vs the play rates of all assassins

I have done this and really do not want to do it again, but here you go: https://u.gg/lol/tier-list?role=middle

and since i'm not aware of all the new champions, i'll use https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion for the list

#in the interest of fairness, i'll add "unusual" cases to both sides, such as ahri, diana, etc and mark them as unusual

assassins...

zed: 11% ahri: 9.7 (unusual) akali: 9.3%

corki: 6.4 (unusual) reason: plays almost exclusively like a mage unless in close range, which is not unique to corki, but since he is a marksman and shares the strengths and weaknesses of a marksman with his primary INTENDED method of delivering damage being auto attacks... katarina: 8.9%

fizz: 6.9% talon: 5.4% qiyana: 5.0% diana: 4.8 (unusual) kassadin: 4.5 leblanc: 4.2% (unusual) ekko: 3.7

total: 79.8

mages...

ahri: 9.7 (unusual) corki: 6.4 (unusual) vlad: 6.3 lux: 6.3 malz: 4.9 diana: 4.8 (unusual) veigar: 4.5 leblanc: 4.2(unusual) oriana: 4.1 xerath: 4.1 twisted fate: 3.8 zoe: 3.6 velkoz: 3.2 ryze: 3.0 cass: 2.8 syndra: 2.8 neeko: 2.7 anivia: 2.6 lissandra: 2.2 swain: 2.1 viktor: 1.7 karma: 1.5 morgana: 1.5 annie: 1.4 ziggs: 1.2 aurelion sol: 1.0

total: 92.4

79.8 / 92.4 = 86% play rate comparison. Count comparison: 11 assassins, 26 mages. 42% population comparison. Less than half the number and almost equal play rates...

I'll give you my opinion on why people ban assassins so often, its mobility. Players hate to be punished for their mistakes and they'd rather blame the champion for punishing their mistakes than themselves for being greedy or misplaying

mobility is NOT the reason that assassins are so hated, it's instead that EVEN ONE MISTAKE IS LETHAL WHILE PLAYING AGAINST THEM, BUT THE SAME IS NOT TRUE IN RETURN FOR THEM.

Talon can kill you from 100% as early as level 2,

Zed has just about every tool in the book to turn a situation in his favor,

Fizz can evade any kit that is not targeted with the push of a button and engage upon you in the same spell,

Ekko does as a lot of players complain about mages: he plays dodge ball with his Q and then engages, or, he engages and point-blank uses his Q so the player has to choose about burning their flash or not

akali can hide in safety unless you have enough AOE to cover a good portion of her cloud and can maintain a consistent amount of burst damage while sustaining herself

Kassadin has been gutted into the ground and he's still a consistent and powerful pick because of how you can rely on him to apply his burst damage

#the real issues with assassins? They get to be the kings and queens of damage while being one of the safest classes in the game. They might not apply the MOST damage, but they don't NEED to. What they do is find a target and KILL IT

Light BurnerAug 14, 20191 votes

Every stat line i was using was from u.gg for plat+ rank

Using the best akali players isnt really a good indicator because i can use the best xeraths https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/xerath https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/anivia https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/lux https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/heimerdinger Same for lux, same for anivia, same for heimer. You get the point. It doesnt say anything about the champion itself besides that its possible to win on the champion. And you'd see the same stat lines. Hovering between 60-80% winrates. Thats just bias facts and unusable in this discussion because its going to take the highest winrate players of that champion.

2.You based your point 2 on your point 1 for support now that point 1 has been disproven and it applies for every champ not just akali, if you still feel to press this point you'll have to come up with some other support for this argument.

I dont see why you're telling me to choose one of the stronger mid laners? My point was to show that despite the high ban rate high play rate a champion can still have a low winrate. Asking me to pick a high winrate assassin goes against the whole point to my argument? My argument was that if high playrate and high ban rate as you suggested = too strong then akali should be winning since she falls under that category but because she doesnt it proves your statement false that because fizz has a high play rate high ban rate that means hes too strong.

Again i wasnt using irelia to prove anything about assassins just the logic of high banrate+ highplay rate doesnt not equal strong an OP champion.

4.79.8 / 92.4 = 86% play rate comparison. Count comparison: 11 assassins, 26 mages. 42% population comparison. Less than half the number and almost equal play rates...

I dont even know what to say to this... I told you you'd use this argument and before you used it i told you how i would reply to it and you still used it and didnt have a rebuttal for my reply to it? Ill quote it from my previous post:

"now if we were to add up the play rates of all mages vs the play rates of all assassins you'd say theres more mages than assassins so that's not fair but that proves mages are played more often in mid than assassins." -Now maybe this wasnt clear enough so i'll restate it. Your original argument was assassins are too strong and thus pushing mages from mid lane. The fact that as you pointed out with the percentages mages are played MORE mid than assassins shows that statement is false. It doesnt matter how many mages there are compared to assassins, because if mages were being pushed out by assassins then assassins would overtake them because its not a mutually exclusive event. What i mean by this is, if i pick zed the first game, i can pick zed the next game as well and the game after that. Im not forced to pick a different champion, and mages have the same thing. Theres more mages than assassins which leaves people with more options to choose a different mage.

"it's instead that EVEN ONE MISTAKE IS LETHAL WHILE PLAYING AGAINST THEM, BUT THE SAME IS NOT TRUE IN RETURN FOR THEM."

This is true for them though. What i feel we need to describe here is how you define a "mistake". In the case i was making a mistake would be greeding for cs where the assassins will just blink onto and pop you for that mistake other champs dont have that ability or farming a side lane as a squishy carry solo and shoved up. Now depending on how you define the "mistake" for an assassin i'll be able to rebuttal your comment but at this point i need you to define it before making any comments. Like what do you label as a mistake for an assassin?

As you said about the assassins after that about them being too safe. These arent mistakes that you're labeling their champion mechanics. To be more clear please define what a mistake is for an assassin or give an example like i did.

"They get to be the kings and queens of damage while being one of the safest classes in the game." Explain what you mean by being one of the safest classes.

"What they do is find a target and KILL IT" Isnt this what the class is about tho?