Can we change GA back to being a pure defensive item?

l MrD l·Oct 31, 2018·186 votes·22,894 views

for such a strong defensive item ... literally a revive but only viable for AD too? .... i just played vs a full AD team and we stacked armour but we felt punished because they all just mainly built GA and revived .......

GA used to be good because if you wanted to revive and stay relevent it meant sacrificng some damage but now you just get damage and a powerful revive ... whats worse is that it buiilds out of a BF which is a strong damage item as well as chain vest .... so even as you build it youre not being put down in any way and for only 2800 i find it annoying to have to deal with seeing a GA almost every game ......

I just feel so punished especially vs champs like irelia too ..... its hard enough trying to kill her through titanic/steraks and her W but when she has a GA too i just give up .....

118 Comments

Warlord RhinarkOct 31, 201894 votes

Yeah you can't even build GA on a Mage or a Tank anymore without being called a troll.

I'm for the revert.

SEKAIOct 31, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjocV7N1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-31T12:53:18.089+0000)

Yeah you can't even build GA on a Mage or a Tank anymore without being called a troll.

I'm for the revert.

Preach.

GigglesOOct 31, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjocV7N1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-31T12:53:18.089+0000)

Yeah you can't even build GA on a Mage or a Tank anymore without being called a troll.

I'm for the revert.

They’ve made it so that anything that isn’t tank can’t somehow get tank stats.

Tanks are only still good with tank stats because ther have boosted base stats to compensate for defense being garbage.

It wasn’t nearly as bad until recently when defense in runes and masteries was basically gutted. The pick your own stats give 200g offense but only 100g defense.

TheSingularityNov 1, 20185 votes

Just wanna point something out in addition to this. Over the years tanks have lost over 800 HP and 55 armour due to item nerfs. They have also lost 20% CDR from locket and spirit visage. Will admit the visage change was good in a way as it opened up build options, but I do miss the old locket so much

GigglesONov 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Just wanna point something out in addition to this. Over the years tanks have lost over 800 HP and 55 armour due to item nerfs. They have also lost 20% CDR from locket and spirit visage. Will admit the visage change was good in a way as it opened up build options, but I do miss the old locket so much

Also rip in combat regen with FoN

Lil Homie bustaOct 31, 20185 votes

I play a lot of damage-wise ad champs, and I'm also in for a revert. GA is such a biased item, I miss when it was just defensive and used to give MR.

SalronOct 31, 201849 votes

If we do that Banshees also needs to go back to what it used to be

Step Sis LuxOct 31, 201816 votes

Banshee and ga are 2 diffrent items

Gank4DoublesOct 31, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjocV7N1,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-31T13:27:37.448+0000)

Banshee and ga are 2 diffrent items

Wrong.

ThilmerOct 31, 201820 votes

{quoted}

Wrong.

Then I want Banshee to revive me for free when I died because I made a mistake. ROFL.

saltranOct 31, 201813 votes

I mean, he's right and GA and Banshee are different ítems.

But if they do revert GA they should revert aswell Banshee, or even better: dont revert any of these items and ignore the Gameplay Boards.

Votable JesterNov 1, 20182 votes

Do understand that reverting Banshee would likely result in the old Abyssal Scepter returning...

CatastrophicOct 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjocV7N1,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-31T13:27:37.448+0000)

Banshee and ga are 2 diffrent items

Tell that to Xerath item 3102 item 3157 item 3026

Radiant SeraphOct 31, 201814 votes

You mean 0 damage Xerath

CatastrophicNov 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ethereal Dreamer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjocV7N1,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2018-10-31T23:58:50.072+0000)

You mean 0 damage Xerath

I mean, he would only get tankiness from GA but zhonya's and banshee's give 75 AP each, nothing to scoff at. and I specifically mentioned Xerath because he can be so far from a fight and contribute which makes him having all 3 of those items when you finally get on top of him a terrible experience.

Votable JesterNov 1, 20187 votes

I'd scoff at it all day long with how much money he threw down the drain. It doesn't matter that he has all three of those if you get on him. Unless his allies are able to kill you, you're going to burn through and kill him through all those.

Not to mention he has shit waveclear, burst, poke, and basically just everything that Xerath is supposed to do. I mean god, a significant strength to Xerath is that you can take advantage of his range and AVOID buying these defensive items.

Evil Bisex PlantNov 1, 20184 votes

The fact that all the APs are still designed around builds consisting of several 120 AP items while losing them all tells you how much 75 AP items can be scoffed at. The fact that in these days those are considered high AP items is irrelevant; even if we don't mention how that build lacks any MPen, everyone with Mercs would be invincible to that Xerath.

ZT XperimentorOct 31, 20183 votes

How often do you see the veil outright undoing your attempt to kill mages? That's what he's getting at.

SwiftKitten88Oct 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

If we do that Banshees also needs to go back to what it used to be

in that case give us back abyssal

Sex With AnnieOct 31, 20184 votes

Be an ap mage/assassin buy zhonyas and "boards reverted" GA, and Banshees Become virtually unpunishable for any mistake. While still doing comparable damage due to 3 more free item slots. Great idea.

saltranOct 31, 20183 votes

Fizz with that omegaLUL

Imagine letting the Gameplay Boards balance the game acording to the most upvoted posts here.

EcophileNov 1, 20182 votes

Indeed, those ideas encourage such poor gameplay. I don't get why people think they understand what should be done when they only look at the champions and items they use in isolation. I do not stalk people's stats, but I doubt any of those is from high elo.

Votable JesterNov 1, 20182 votes

I mean you'd have moderately low damage when you have just those three items. Plus you don't get any health from them meaning that mages would still be able to kill you (assuming the Banshee's shield is popped first).

Ad champions can get through any level of armor with a little bit of time, but adcs would probably die. Whether or not you'd be able to kill an adc with their support there as well though, I have significant doubts.

ZardoOct 31, 20185 votes

The issue is that abyssal mask and banshee's got tweaked and swapped around and whatnot, so larger work would have to be done. Not apposed to it, just sayin

FurriesAreHotOct 31, 201817 votes

Even when im playing AD hyper carries I fucking hate the changes. If I want GA, I want it for the extra resistances, not for a glorified Sterakk's.

Lil Homie bustaOct 31, 20186 votes

Honestly, I would like to have a item that gave Armor and AD, but not GA. GA used to be pure defense, now it sucks for many champions who used to pick it. It was one of the few items that you could build in almost every champion.

Hayaishi2Oct 31, 201812 votes

And banshee too please. MISS being able to build Banshee on ADC.

JPLangleyOct 31, 20181 votes

[deleted]

OtterlyLostOct 31, 201814 votes

{quoted}

lol dafaq

When Banshee's didn't give AP, I would build it on marksmen. It wasn't uncommon, before season 6, ADCs were allowed to and able to build a single defensive, usually either a GA or a Banshee's.

Votable JesterNov 1, 20182 votes

I forget, was its cooldown back then as long as it is now? I feel like it got nerfed several times.

LilxPaprikaOct 31, 201810 votes

item 3193 is supposed to be the tank ga. this idea would make more viable: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/YuN4jHgE-give-these-two-dual-res-items-a-slider-to-convert-some-resistances

tank items need to not suck so much for bruisers, and this could solve this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/OcqEj4Ep-feature-idea-merchants-value-to-offer-better-tradeoffs-custom-tailoring

on another note i wouldn't mind having an offensive and defensive variant of both ga and banshee

XilixerOct 31, 20187 votes

why the GA was even changed to be only suitable for the adc is beyond me. It's such an awful idea.

SpecterVonBarenOct 31, 20187 votes

It sucks because a team that's gotten a lead will often buy these and it makes the potential for a comeback almost non existent.

Noor SakataOct 31, 20186 votes

and some people actually Think Zhonia is superior to GA

ModCaptainMårvelousNov 1, 20183 votes

It is by sheer virtue of the fact that you can control when you want Zhonyas to pop, along with having a shorter CD.

GA revives you regardless of if you get killed by the assassin diving 1v5 and having a miracle combo or if you get killed 5v1 wit their entire team licking their lips as you go through the death animation

ChalzeNov 1, 20185 votes

Lmao soon enough Warmogs is gonna give % health "adaptive damage"

NodirjonSattarovOct 31, 20184 votes

I played a game where Kha'zix built a GA second item and made it such a fucking pain to kill him.

ORlANNAGRANDEOct 31, 20183 votes

Came back to this game after 2 years and I was surprised to see GA gives AD. As a Riven main im enjoying it but it does seem unfair for mages. Why not just give it +40 AP as well.

1800NICECLIENTOct 31, 20183 votes

I wouldn't mind different GAs for Tanks, APs, and AD champs. Why can't we all get one?

Vanic998Oct 31, 20182 votes

In my opinion, I think you're problem isn't really with ga. I think your real problem is with ad champions that aren't as risky as they should be. I think the current ga should still exist for the ad champions that are actually in danger. I agree with you that its difficult to kill irelia; with all those dashes, damage reduction, bruiser items, etc.

NCBucketsNov 1, 20182 votes

item 3157 + item 3026 op

MadVikingNov 1, 20182 votes

Haha.

Defense?

Haha!

The best Defense is an even better Offense!

-Riot

RoamanticOct 31, 20181 votes

I believe they have GA more for ad's because mages have their defense stat item(zhonyas) and ad's have theirs(GA). Zhonyas also gives ap so why shouldn't ga have ad added as well? Maybe it is a little much but still think it is a more balanced way of having the game.

ZerenzaNov 1, 20187 votes

They changed it because in Pro-Play people would just buy GA's, so you'd very frequently just see 5+ GA's a game. The issue though is that Zhonya's requires the player to physically press a button to use it. GA reads exactly this "Upon taking lethal damage enter stasis for 4 seconds(twice the time Zhonya's allows.) after that time restore 50% of base HP and 30% of base Mana." No matter how low you were before GA popped, you'll end up at 50% so you get to heal, and avoid all damage for 4 seconds.

Meanwhile Zhonya's costs 100 more, only allows for 2.5 seconds of stasis, and requires you to make the decision to use it(this one is a HUGE deal.). Having to make the decision to use something is GIGANTIC because with GA if an assassin tries to kill you, you dont have to react at all, even if the assassin played it perfectly, you revive for free. With Zhonya's you have to press the button before they deal their damage or you die, there's skill, GA requires 0 skill but was pigeon holled to only allow AD's to buy it despite the fact that AD's have this many defensive items.

item 3155 item 3053 item 3139 item 3814 item 3812 item 3046

Death's Dance transfer's all damage you take into 15% DOT, which means you get tankier to Burst. Phantom dancer gives 12% resistance to all damage taken from whatever your attacking. AD's had plenty of defensive items, ADC's can and have built all of these items(steraks wasn't always a melee only item.)

Ap's have these.

item 3157 item 3102

Yep, that's it.

RoamanticNov 1, 20182 votes

item 3040 item 3116 item 3165 item 3151 item 3027 dont forget about these ones. health is also considered defense

Also you can choose to use zhonyas, hypothetically lets say you got caught out by 2-3 members of enemy team. You have the option to pop zhonyas or save it, and even if you had popped zhonyas to survive a few more seconds, you will still have zhonyas by next team fight anyways With GA you dont have that option, not only do you die you also lose a 5 min cd item.

NyarlathοtepNov 1, 20184 votes

Hp is useless against lethality.

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20183 votes

Lethality is designed to kill mages. Why should mages be able to fight assassins, assassins are their counter.

ZerenzaNov 1, 20183 votes

Lethality is designed to kill squishes, it's best use is against champs that don't build Armor or build very little. This includes Ap/Ad Carries, Assassins(most of them atleast), BURST MAGES and Enchanter's.

The issue with the items you listed is for 1, seraphs, rylai's, rod and Liandries aren't good on Burst Mages. Rod takes to long to get to it's spike, burst mages scale best into mid game, seraphs takes to long to stack when burst mages have high cooldowns and high mana costs, liandries is built to work against tanks but a burst mage isn't gonna be doing anything to a tank anyway and Rylai's was nerfed and since then is pretty useless on pretty much every mage except Swain.

Swain, Vlad, Galio and Rumble are "Battle Mages" they have short cooldowns, low mana costs and deal less damage. Syndra, Lux, Ahri and Zoe are "Burst Mages" they have longer cooldown's, higher mana costs and deal a lot of damage, they don't scale well with resistances or health. Ryze, Cassiopeia, Azir and Xerath are "Artillery Mage's" they have mid range cooldowns, high early mana costs but get a lot of mana later on and deal consistent DPS making them "AP Carries." they scale better with Health and Resistances than burst mages but not as well as Battle Mages.

Each one builds different based on the type, the issue though is mainly for Battle Mages and AP Carries, you can build as much HP as you want but with no resistances an ADC can burst you in an auto attack as either of them. The only saving grace for Burst Mages is that you can kill them before they kill you. Not to mention as all of them against an AD matchup you lose the early game because of Hexdrinker, free AP damage shield with MR tacked on? Sign me the fuck up if i'm playing a Talon VS ryze match up, watch me mop the floor with his shiny ass forehead dude, it's easy.

BiasZebraNov 1, 20181 votes

Strangely enough, I actually disagree. It seems to me that GA has a new niche like item 3157 , where just like how the hourglass is a mage's sole defensive item, GA is an AD champ's defensive item. In my opinion, it seems pretty fine right where it is.