Just played the new Anivia... it's time to take out the trash

Meat Feast·Nov 23, 2016·2 votes·2,612 views

She's been gutted. Not having her R>E combo makes her next to useless in most fast paced situations. Time to find a new main.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

24 Comments

WoonStruckNov 23, 20165 votes

Or maybe actually land your shit.

She already gets a free laning phase. She honestly doesn't deserve to get all of her damage that easily. 1.5 seconds is not hard to set up, and you can use wall to force them to stay in your ult.

Anivia's needed weaknesses for a long time, and she's finally getting them.

Meat FeastNov 23, 20163 votes

her lane phase is not free. using the wall to keep people in your ult is very conditional. setting up your stun with your wall is very conditional. you don't seem to know what you're talking about. all this makes her just another one trick pony. if you want to give her a weakness then nerf her dmg or egg or slow or stun or wall. but taking away her only fast paced combo means she'll never be any where close to what she was.

WoonStruckNov 23, 20161 votes

**Her laning phase IS free. **Her auto range is long enough that the large majority of champions would have a hard time punishing her for CSing without putting themselves at serious risk as well.

On top of that, she has her Q, which is extremely easy to hit with how huge the AoE is, while also having a low enough cost/CD that it can often be used for pushing the wave early game. Her E CD is relatively low, allowing her to CS under turret quite well if she happens to get pushed in.

You can literally just afk farm as Anivia if you're somehow behind. Most champions would be hard pressed to stop you. However, rarely is Anivia behind due to how easy (safe) her kit is pre-6, and how absolutely free her damage is post-6.

AnìvìaNov 23, 20164 votes

Her aa range is 600, which is only 50 more than most midlaners have and 100 more than few other ranged champs got. Do you know how much range 100 is? It is one teemo. Those with lower range usualy have faster animations and hits. Farming pre level 6 was always a pain with her. Even aniviamains do not last hit as good with her as your claim would asume.

Her q is one of the slowest skillshots in this game. Hitting it on maxrange is purely the lack of dodging skills by your oponent. Sometimes players run into it on maxrang for no reason. I do wonder if you have ever played anivia against a more skilled player. On lower range your chances of hitting are not as reliable as you make believe. Simply walking sideways the moment you see the projectile would be sufficient to dodge it on most ranges with the standard boots. The cooldown is 12/10 seconds early game and the mana usage is huge with 80/90 mana per cast. Considering that her early mana pool is around 500, you have 7 chained casts with manareg. Not taking into account that you also have a wall with 70 mana drain and the e with 50/60/70 per cast.

The moment anivia uses her q to farm, her chances to kill/trade are realy low.

Using e to farm is realy inefficient and is only done because farming with aa is realy hard to pull off without lossing too many minions. Again, just like with the q farm, this will deny you any possibility to fight your opponent properly.

After anivia is behind, all she can do is farm. That is true for most champions. If you can still compete with your enemy after getting behind in the same way you could when you are fed, something is realy wrong.

Her kit is neither easy, nor is it free dmg. She never saw much play simply because she is not easy to play. Even when she was considered too strong this season, her playerbase never reached 10% .

WoonStruckNov 23, 20161 votes

because farming with aa is realy hard to pull off without lossing too many minions.

No, literally the only reason you should be using E to get CS is if you'll miss one due to your auto attack timer after successfully getting a another CS. Farming with autos on ANY champion is not difficult unless you're shoved under tower, and Anivia farms a lot better than many champs under tower.

Her auto animation is not that bad. Nobody's is. If you aren't used to their specific animation/missile speed on their auto, you need to practice with them more before you touch ranked.

Its not about her competing when behind, its that you can't reliably punish her without very high mobility (which isn't terribly common mid) in order to push an advantage, so she's a factor mid-game whether she's put behind or not unless the one playing her is really, really bad.

The only reason Anivia isn't played is because her kit is boring as fuck to most people and she didn't show up in any professional scene and do anything big.

Please see: Skarner.

Anivia has never been considered a hard champion. Ever. She's actually really easy to play, overall. Her safe laning (what she has always been considered to have since release) was barely touched by her 'update'.

AnìvìaNov 23, 20163 votes

"Farming with autos on ANY champion is not difficult unless you're shoved under tower, and Anivia farms a lot better than many champs under tower."

Any player who knows anivia will push her under tower from level one on since she is realy weak at farming under tower.

"Her auto animation is not that bad. Nobody's is. If you aren't used to their specific animation/missile speed on their auto, you need to practice with them more before you touch ranked."

Need more practice? How could I ge more practice than 6 seasons of playing anivia mainly. I farmed with her even bevore her aa speed got tuned up. I do play mutible midlaners, i play some top and adc champs. I have hand on experience about farming and i can tell you, anivia farming is hard pre 6.

One of the main counters to anivia is an enemy champ who can push her under tower early on.

"Its not about her competing when behind, its that you can't reliably punish her without very high mobility (which isn't terribly common mid) in order to push an advantage, so she's a factor mid-game whether she's put behind or not unless the one playing her is really, really bad."

You can punish her fairly well with high range or the ability to doge her q and then go all in on her. Lux or xerath outtrade her simply because anivia should not get the chance to even land an ability. cassiopeia or ryze can overrun her with their constant damageoutput and abilities to stay alive. It takes skill for anivia to land her q on a good opponent, just as it takes skill to punish her for a missed q.

Ganks are also a constant struggle because she can not use her abilities to block of two opponents of in case she just used either wall or q.

"The only reason Anivia isn't played is because her kit is boring as fuck to most people and she didn't show up in any professional scene and do anything big."

Talking about personal preferences? I play her since this game is out of beta. I played her all this time and I will play her until this game goes down. Her kit always seemed exciting to me because there is so much variaton to use it while keeping her in a dangerous spot in case you do not hit properly.

And she did show up in the profesional scene. In fact, there is probably no anivia main who did not got compared to froggen or asked wheter he is froggen. She was also played and shown by faker as far as I am aware( do not realy care for proscene, but even I do know this)

She got two big show ofs in LCS. Her pickrate went up that time, but went down fairly quick again, because she is just realy hard to play.

"Anivia has never been considered a hard champion. Ever. She's actually really easy to play, overall. Her safe laning (what she has always been considered to have since release) was barely touched by her 'update'."

Look up anivia in the client and tell me what it says about her dificulty level. It has throughout all seasons been at max. It just got harder with the mage update and the recent e nerv.

Even when she was considered strong this season, when everyone complained, her ban and playerrate were not even that big, considering how much everyone was complaining about her. This simply lies with the fact, that she is not easy to play. There is nothing indicating the opposite. Even riot is showung her as difficult champion in their client.

Her laning got worse, that I can tell you. With the mage update, with this recent update as well. She lacks actual pressure, because of how easy it is to overrun her. I played her for long enough to be able to make that claim. I played her bevore and after every change. I do play her right now. And I can feel the difference. I can see it. And I play like it. I still have to get used to the range her ult will disapear because i got too far away. Right now I have a hard time adjusting to the delay I have to set between ult and e and also have to make sure that my enemy stays inside, while I stay alive in that timewindow. I also noticed the 50 flat dmg decrease on her empowered e. Just like i noticed how my enemies barely slipped away, when the mage update changed her ult.

What is the weirdest observation to me is, that her zoning other players actualy got realy weak. They are no longer afraid of my ult, w and q combination. They just started to dive me, even when I was fairly ahead. This did not happen pre mage update.

Now, if this is for the better or not, that I do not know. I just can assure you that as dedicated anivia player I felt every change. And they all have been for the worse in anivias pov.

Dark NephthysNov 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No, literally the only reason you should be using E to get CS is if you'll miss one due to your auto attack timer after successfully getting a another CS. Farming with autos on ANY champion is not difficult unless you're shoved under tower, and Anivia farms a lot better than many champs under tower.

Her auto animation is not that bad. Nobody's is. If you aren't used to their specific animation/missile speed on their auto, you need to practice with them more before you touch ranked.

Its not about her competing when behind, its that you can't reliably punish her without very high mobility (which isn't terribly common mid) in order to push an advantage, so she's a factor mid-game whether she's put behind or not unless the one playing her is really, really bad.

The only reason Anivia isn't played is because her kit is boring as fuck to most people and she didn't show up in any professional scene and do anything big.

Please see: Skarner.

Anivia has never been considered a hard champion. Ever. She's actually really easy to play, overall. Her safe laning (what she has always been considered to have since release) was barely touched by her 'update'.

You really don't know anything about Anivia, it's obvious that you dont play her. First of all "Her auto attack animation is not that bad. Nobody's is"? Anivia has the 2nd worse auto attack in the game...the only person who has one that is worse then her is Karthus but he can just use his Q or E to farm with and he gets mana back. Anivia is not easy to farm with UNTIL she gets her ultimate. Once she gets her ultimate then sure her R can clear waves assuming you have the mana to do it since it eats your mana up a lot and by the time you get it, your lane opponent is probably around 20-30+ CS above you or maybe more if they kept pushing you under turret which Anivia CANT farm under pre-6.

Also about all your other posts...Free lane? Anivia's Q is not easy to land. Yes the aoe is big but it's also extremely slow and any good enemy would just walk to the side and there goes a large portion of anivia's damage. Pre-6 her damage is 100% based on if she lands her Q which as I mentioned before is easy to dodge. If she misses her Q on you pre-6, then her E is weaker then Janna 's W and the damage isn't that much more higher then Akali 's Q (Initial hit), Katarina Q. Yes she could hit you from far away with the Q but by the time you hit them with it and walk up to them, their stun is over and they are already walking away from you so hitting them from max range usually doesn't result in landing your E.

Also you mention "low cost/CD" for her Q...80-120 Mana is not low cost, that is a lot of mana and is not something she can easily just spam freely. Her damage wasn't "free" even post 6...People just don't take advantage of it when she would R>E you.

Old Anivia: At level 6, she would walk up to you and uses her R>E on you using about 225 Mana and you take 2 ticks of her Ult + E (which would be rank 3 by this time) So thats E: 200 + 100% + Ult: 160 + 50% = 360 + 150% AP

Anivia won't even have any real AP by the time she hits level 6 because she needs to rush item 3070 item 3027 . Even if she skips her Tear and rushes for RoA, at most she'd have would be item 1026 item 1056 which is 55 AP + let's assume 15-20 AP runes/masteries. So she would have at most 75 AP. So that combo did 472 damage at most. Yes that would be enough to do about half of a mage's HP but that also required her to use her ultimate + E which now she has nothing else but for her easy to dodge Q. People needed to take advantage of it and just jump on her and use your abilties on her (At least use your basic abilities if you didn't want to waste ult) but no...most people would walk away and Anivia gets a free trade, and then they come to the forums and complain.

Also Anivia has probably one of the most amount of weaknesses in the game and is very easy to take advantage of. I love when I'm fighting against Anivia because as some one who plays her, knows what to do against her and I always destroy her in lane.

RequiemsfireNov 23, 20163 votes

I'll tell you from first hand experience, that Anivia's laning phase is god awful relative to other champions. Her auto attacks are some of the weakest and she has virtual zero wave clear before level 6. Using your abilities to farm is too painfully inefficient, and not worth it because clearly your opponent would be punishing you for using them. Farming with your ult is also an option but not before you pick up tear and catalyst because you'll just go oom after 10-20 creeps and oh of course the enemy mid laner is going to happily let you free farm when you're 40 cs and 2 levels down.

BakedLotionNov 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

**Her laning phase IS free. **Her auto range is long enough that the large majority of champions would have a hard time punishing her for CSing without putting themselves at serious risk as well.

On top of that, she has her Q, which is extremely easy to hit with how huge the AoE is, while also having a low enough cost/CD that it can often be used for pushing the wave early game. Her E CD is relatively low, allowing her to CS under turret quite well if she happens to get pushed in.

You can literally just afk farm as Anivia if you're somehow behind. Most champions would be hard pressed to stop you. However, rarely is Anivia behind due to how easy (safe) her kit is pre-6, and how absolutely free her damage is post-6.

did this guy just say her q is easy to hit and has a large aoe lol its one of the slowest skillshots in the game and has the aoe of a cass q low cd lol low mana cost lol

Anivia's pre 6 isn't even strong wtf You dodge her Q and she only has a 50% ap ratio less than 100 base dmg spell

She also sucks at csing under tower because of her auto animation so...

WoonStruckNov 24, 20161 votes

Her Q detonation AoE lets you hit a lot of stuff you normally wouldn't.

Her pre-6 isn't strong, but its extremely safe. Anivia's goal likely won't be to harass you out of lane. It will be to afk farm until she has her mana items.

Her auto animation really isn't that bad lol.

BakedLotionNov 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Her Q detonation AoE lets you hit a lot of stuff you normally wouldn't.

Her pre-6 isn't strong, but its extremely safe. Anivia's goal likely won't be to harass you out of lane. It will be to afk farm until she has her mana items.

Her auto animation really isn't that bad lol.

give me 1 champion with a worse auto animation

ErockandrollNov 23, 20164 votes

I swear, people are polar on this topic. Namely cause people wouldn't keep b*tching about how fast that combo actually is. Yet every time Riot actually fixes the problemed mechanics, everybody goes "Riot Gutted Champion X"

Riot doesn't exactly prioritize balance over the health of a champions kit. Riot can't actually expect the actual impact of removing a problematic element in ones kit. Even when offering compensating buffs, riot basically had to concede that a kit change is going to require follow up to actually balance.

My advice, give it a patch cycle or two, riot will eventually balance her around the change in her kit.

Meat FeastNov 23, 20162 votes

I get it, but they shouldve just nerfed the damage, that would've been better. I spent so much time trying to get good with Anivia and now she's sh*t for at least 6 months before they realize what they've done.

EschetonNov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meat Feast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ww89YtvR,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-23T02:48:29.374+0000)

I get it, but they shouldve just nerfed the damage, that would've been better. I spent so much time trying to get good with Anivia and now she's sh*t for at least 6 months before they realize what they've done.

They already did recently nerf the damage, It seems that wasn't enough.

ErockandrollNov 23, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meat Feast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ww89YtvR,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-23T02:48:29.374+0000)

I get it, but they shouldve just nerfed the damage, that would've been better. I spent so much time trying to get good with Anivia and now she's sh*t for at least 6 months before they realize what they've done.

I have some serious doubts about that. Having that problem mechanic meant that their wasn't going to be a middle ground, she would either, a) continue to be oppressive, because of a low counterplay or b) become useless anyway, cause the combo's damage became gutted. And if you balance a champion around such an ability combo, it removes the individual value of either abilities themselves. Over all, Riot is probably going to keep adding more stats until Anivia get's into the right place. Unless your insisting that it make Anivia's kit too shallow. But if that

Coincidental Taliyah basically went down the opposite vain. Riot made her combos, shorter and more concise. and in the end, Riot had to nerf her damage because of those mechanics.

Over all, Riot is probably going to keep adding more stats until Anivia get's into the right place. Unless your insisting that it make Anivia's kit too shallow. But if that was the case, Riot would have replaced those mechanic with something new. (And it would make it even harder to balance)

AnìvìaNov 23, 20163 votes

With how those past changes on different champions turned out, I am not too confident in riots balanceskills. If they do balance her out I would be glad, but this will be determined in the next two months or three and that is a long time.

The mechanic was not problematic enough to be changed for 6 seasons. Thats how long this combo was available and used. She did not receive buffs to her abilities herself, but got stronger due to mastery and itemchanges. All champions did and got tweaked around it or changed.

Saying that you could not balance out her e r dmg seems fairly lazy in that regard as it was all right for such a long time.

With her abilities, you have to use them in combination to make them overall effective. Not one of them is by itself a strong and reliable skill. This already made every single ability of her valuable. This change will force her into all ins and thus giving enemy junglers easy oportunities to overrun her. It is true that this will make every ability of her more valuable, but only in combination with every other ability she has. Looking at any of her abilities by itself will make you think that you miss out on something.

Most mages have skills they can poke you with.( An ability; reliable and fairly strong by itself) Anivia no longer posesses such a trait.

But thanks for having positive feedback. Usualy you see hatecomments regarding anivia. Your post put me at ease a little.

AptestNov 23, 20162 votes

the actual situation is this:

people who play fast paced mobile champions want the damage to be conditional so that they can outplay it and win VS anivia.

people who play anivia want to be able to put damage downrange so they win instead.

simple as that. both sides of the QQ line feel they have a right to win lane phase and are asking riot to make them win through nerfs.

BakedLotionNov 23, 20163 votes

"but it was unfair" yeah so was every other burst mage that's point and click

CalabokNov 23, 20163 votes

BirdBrain was incredibly spikey damage and the slows/damage she does is nuts.

she deserved it.

KcbmsQxbPLNov 23, 20163 votes

Many players saw the Anivia updates, assuming this would harm her performance.

Ex: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/RwczxE0i-patch-623-abandon-anivia-to-the-depths-of-hell

And: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MXuUXHbF-bye-anivia

"Bye, Anivia. You won't be missed." They said. Little did they know that even though her instant no skill R+E combo is not not even worth casting, everything else about her has been buffed and is now better than ever, allowing an experienced Anivia player to focus on positioning, team play, and fully securing kills rather than quick R+E bursts that may or may not positively secure a kill. (take a look at this sorry fucker here for example: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ww89YtvR-just-played-the-new-anivia-its-time-to-take-out-the-trash)

Here's a screenshot of my match history since the update: https://postimg.org/image/5aafergmr/ (notice the 23/2/10) all around the same game lengths. You can view my match history here (http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/234182282) to view my Anivia games before the patch, and though I've gone 30+ kills/0 before, my performance since the update has been arguably better than ever.

Sorry Anivia haters, she's stronger than ever and I'm going to deeply, deeply, passionately enjoy smacking you around while watching my win rate rise. I don't know why you hate on the chicken so much, given that out of the 46% of summoners that own Anivia, only 1.8% of those have mastery 7 with her. Which means 0.0046% of players frequently play the champion. On top of this, Riot, and high elo players agree that though her kit may seem simple, she is a high skill cap champion. Especially more so after the most recent update, forcing players to focus on landing skill shots, and locking down kills with R+Q+W+E. You may have been able to escape with 30 HP before, but there's no getting away from the 6.23 Ice Chicken.

Toxic champions like Yasuo, Syndra, and Orianna should all arguably be dealt with first by priority, given the fact that Yasuo for example has consistently seen play rates of 25-35%, ban rates up to 70%, and win rates up to 58%. You all just don't want to talk about that because the only champions that can consistently hold a fight with these champions are champions like Anivia, Viktor, Cassiopeia, etc. (Which all have what in common? You guessed it! High skill caps, and low play rates!)

So fuck you.

Sincerely,

Ice Chicken & every other Anivia main that's gonna kick your ass in lane until Anivia inevitably catches more nerfs, even though Annie has a much faster burst window, and a much higher win rate, but that's another rant for another update.

http://thenest.shivtr.com/news_entries/375569