Is a stealth tank inherently unbalanced?

5000000000000000··4 votes·1,179 views

I've noticed that most stealth champions are carries who use stealth to surprise enemies or avoid incoming damage. In some cases, stealth carries can do tremendous damage to the entire team.

So why aren't there any stealth tanks? The closest I can find is Wukong, who can engage from stealth, but the rest of his kit has no CC at all.

36 Comments

Variks the Loyal3 votes

Shen would be a great candidate for a 'steath tank.'

The idea would be using subterfuge and misdirection to redirect or cancel damage, in addition to just tanking it outright.

50000000000000001 votes

Maybe give him the Trickster's Glass active on one of his spells? Or maybe reverse of that, making someone else appear to be Shen?

Not sure how well that's gonna work out, but it'd be fun to play and play against, imo.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

{quoted}

Maybe give him the Trickster's Glass active on one of his spells? Or maybe reverse of that, making someone else appear to be Shen?

Not sure how well that's gonna work out, but it'd be fun to play and play against, imo.

I was thinking more like an anti-thesis to Zed; create clones that use your abilities, indistinguishable from Shen. Damage focused on the clones is damage 'tanked', because it's not going on Shen or anyone else.

50000000000000001 votes

Ooh, two Shens dashing towards your team sounds terrifying. Also, one for all Shen?

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

Ooh, two Shens dashing towards your team sounds terrifying. Also, one for all Shen?

I was thinking more a new version of 'Feint', which would cause your next ability to render Shen invisible, and summon the clone to cast the ability with an extra twist.

So, Feint into Shadow Dash would be a taunting clone, while Shen can do whatever he wants while invisible, like set up to protect a squishy or cut of his target's escape.

NGNL Asian1 votes

{quoted}

Shen would be a great candidate for a 'steath tank.'

The idea would be using subterfuge and misdirection to redirect or cancel damage, in addition to just tanking it outright.

+he's a ninja

k wìx2 votes

Not unbalanced, just not really worth it. In league, Tanks generally are the frontline. They get targeted because enemies HAVE to target them to get through them. They protect allies with CC and become difficult to kill. ** Stealth mechanics are inherently against this role. **

50000000000000001 votes

What if they were stealthed only before fights? Somewhat like Evelynn, I guess.

k wìx1 votes

Someone who could disrupt an initiate by exiting stealth could potentially work - but it's a nightmare from a balancing perspective. The counterplay is low - your inviting your opponents to spend critical resources to get to a backline that they can't really reach.

Most players would cry foul, the potential champion would need to have big drawbacks in other areas, like significantly reduced damage output. And even then.. it'd be just... VERY hard to balance.. Picture an Alistar that's invisible. Broken. Ultimately i'd think it would be too frustrating to play against. Not fun :(

50000000000000001 votes

That's partly why Eve is hard to balance, so that makes sense. It would definitely be frustrating to play against.

k wìx1 votes

Evelynn isn't that bad - she doesn't have hard cc and can't really control a group of people. Or to put it another way, she's not counter-initiating anyone. Unless she's extremely fed, you can usually react to her initiate.

MonkeyKing Is a great example though - When he was overtuned (bit after release time), he was terrifying. I still think he's better than most players give him credit for, he just doesn't compete with most meta tops currently. His ult is a complete game changer in teamfights.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

he's better than most players give him credit for, he just doesn't compete with most meta tops currently.

no, he never compete with meta top... always

Big Lincoln1 votes

nah it's fine

Ralanr1 votes

A stealth tank?

That...is actually kind of interesting. But you'd have a guy who just stealths so he or she can protect their team without anyone else predicting them.

50000000000000002 votes

That's kinda like Shen ultimate, right? Global shield/teleport. Although he isn't a stealth tank, I guess conceptually he's similar in that he can come out of nowhere to protect someone.

I was thinking more of a Vanguard, though, someone who can engage from stealth.

Support Bοt1 votes

Even when they will make champion who is designed to be a tank, but with stealth, people will do him full dmg, coz of stealth.

50000000000000001 votes

Well, to be fair everyone is built full damage at some point.

But even then, champions like Evelynn and Rengar are built like bruisers. I don't think stealth automatically makes a champion better with high damage. Rest of the kit really matters.

Support Bοt1 votes

Now think about a champ who is designed to be a tank like maokai, malphite etc. He is tanky just by his kit. He can buy full DMG and is still tanky. Now lets see FULL AP Malphite with stealth ^_^

50000000000000001 votes

Full AP tanks are tanky compared to full AP mages, but they're not unlikable.

Full AP Malphite with stealth is probably hard to deal with because of how fast his combo is. What if the damage was more delayed (especially since they'll be designed as tanks)? Full AP Tahm Kench, for example, is not gonna insta burst someone even with stealth.

Moooose31 votes

Because the entire point of a tank is to form a front line in front of your carries and/or engage on the enemy. Stealth tank just sounds dumb to me. Like what's the point. What does that positioning get you?

AlienPrimate2 votes

I would like to see a stealth tank engager. If you look at hard engagers like amumu and sejuani, the enemy team always spreads out to counter them. A stealth tank with slightly weaker lock down potential than those 2 would be cool.

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Wukong does have CC though. He has an AOE CC.

50000000000000001 votes

I meant aside from his ultimate, he has no CC to be a tank.

Escheton1 votes

His ult is a lot of cc tho. And he could build item 3025 to add some slows after that. After the knock-up he functions more like a damage-threat tank. Like a Juggernaut. You are forced to deal with him because he actually deals dmg, not because he may cc your backline more. And plenty of tanks rely primarily on their ult for cc. (notably junglers tho)Amumu Malphite Sejuani

50000000000000001 votes

If he has damage instead of CC, he's not a tank. He's a diver, which is a subclass of fighter. I'd argue that he's partially a vanguard (his engage is extremely powerful), but his kit is more of a fighter than a tank.

Hrd2H1t1 votes

Stealth tanks would be purposeless, every tank's job is to get hit a lot and you can get hit if noone can see you

Teridax681 votes

If the stealth is used to initiate, it could be quite valuable, since you'd have a Vanguard who'd be able to position themselves in the middle of the enemy team without getting interrupted by crowd control or blocks. That would also mean you'd likely have to give them more counterplay and in-fight options elsewhere, but stealth isn't completely useless on tanks. Hell, if you had a summoner spell that provided temporary invisibility, tanks might even be the most likely class to pick it, since it would make their initiations far more reliable. That already happened to a lesser extent during Black Marker Brawlers, where a popular strat had tanks pick Trickster's Glass and disguise themselves as a squishy to initiate more easily.

Escheton1 votes

Black Cleaver into full tank MonkeyKing should work. You dance around the front of the engagemnt zone as per usual for tanks, except you make sure to make a lot of sudden stops. Mimicking the visual effects of your stealth mechanic (this may require some research and training). Then suddenly engage when they no longer expect you to, ult in their faces, cc everyone, shred armor and do some dmg while staying alive fairly long as your team collapses.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Don't do that. Wukong tank is useless. his only cc is his ult.

Without damage he deal no damage and is just a malphite lowcost.

Escheton1 votes

Yes. That is kinda the point. You would not play him as normal Wukong. Which might offend Wukong mains, but it seems viable. Also, item 3025 could very easily be part of his otherwise full tank build.

Meep Man1 votes

I wanted Shen to become one when he up for a mini-rework, but they decided not to do that. I wanted his W shield to grant him stealth while it was active since before it was an incredibly boring spell, but apparently that wouldn't be good.

warpenguin5551 votes

that sounds kinda cool tbh

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I think a stealth tank would be undertuned.

A tank doesn't need stealth. It serves no purpose for them. A tank should be able to engage without needing stealth. A tank doesn't need an escape via stealth.

It will just take up an ability that could have been used otherwise for CC or a shield, etc...

So they'll be undertuned - why pick them? Why take 1 defensive steroid and 2 CC abilities and a stealth ability, over a defensive steroid and 3 CC abilities?

Which means they would need an overloaded kit to compensate (either 3 really strong abilities, or multi-abilities on each key). Which people complain about already.

I mean, it could be interesting - but stealth really supports a damage-oriented play style. A tank really doesn't need it.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

MonkeyKing a tank ? lmao

The Deckowner1 votes

u got the cancer cat.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Stealth initiation is a pretty troublesome prospect and Wukong already toes that very narrow line.

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