Enlighten me: Why's everyone so wet over "simple" champions?

YossarianSensei·Jun 1, 2015·12 votes·1,279 views

Simple' champions tend to be binary and balanced around numbers. You just need to accumulate the right number of stats and you're pretty much guaranteed to faceroll. There is no 'outplaying' them once they get their stats. You either beat them in the stats game, or you get fked up the A-hole. Granted, sometimes it's very hard to get the stats they need (Ex: Mordekaiser is always going to get camped, Darius will never run fast enough, Tryndaqueer needs CS, etc etc)

**'LC$' champions tend to be balanced around mechanics. They're high risk high reward, have big outplay potential, big counterplay potential, and also tend to fall behind easily because they're susceptible to getting 'facerolled' by the binary champs. Even if they pull ahead, they always have the potential to screw up and die **

I just don't understand why a good portion of these Boards seem to hail simple binary champions as if they were the holy grail of proper game design, when really all they need is to reach X amount of stats at Y point of time in the game to button mash their way to victory. There's no counterplay to them other than 'don't let them get there' which has ALWAYS been a terrible design philposophy. It's true a lot of 'simple' champions haven't been strong for a long time, but that's because they got their toxic freelo bullcrap nerfed

It just seems to me people would enjoy playing against Zed/LB/Yasuo/etc where they actually have a chance of screwing up or being counterplayed rather than a Vlad that just mashes buttons dealing absurd damage while never dying.

46 Comments

SEKAIJun 1, 201515 votes

Champs are picked in LCS is not because they have more risk, but because they have less (and either equally or more rewarding than simple kit champs). Pros are looking to win games, not to play games, because literally their life is depended on it so they won't hesitate to pick the most broken thing on the table and roll with it. And you know it, they are the overloaded kit champs.

Simple kits have weaknesses because they are all designed to be lacking by default, some melee champs can't do range for shiet, some damage champs can't sustain for shiet, some sustain champs have 0 mobility or any forms of reliable CC. The counterplays lies in counterpicking, counterbuilding and further more, exploit the enemy champs' fundamental weaknesses.

Overloaded kit designs have 0 weaknesses by default because everyone was basically designed to do pretty much everything to a certain degree. So if you have fast enough fingers, you can do it. They have escapes, sustain, damage, CC, mobility, everything you can think of on the moon, they have it. Then where is the counterplay? Well pick a champ who is either more overloaded than they are, more spammy than they are or you the player have faster twitch reflexes with the help of the extra kit size to beat them.

In the ideal world assuming everyone is using their overloaded kit into the absolute max potential, no one would win a game, because they're simply designed to have 0 pre-defined exploitable weaknesses hence playing against overloaded kits requires you to solely rely on dice-rolling the chances of enemies messing up their own champ's plays in order to even think about fighting back, that's capitalising (which simpler kits also emphasis), not counterplaying.

Kits that lack actual counterplay is just trouble in the long run.

With overloaded centric balance, this game turns into Mortal Kombat, where the person with the greatest combo inputs and finger presses win the game. But Riot doesn't know, if they head there LoL would only turn out to be a really subpar MK. Because

This game isn't 1v1, outplaying is a team effort, and NOT an individual stunt show.
Instead of heading straight into the actions like any fighting games, we have to worry about synergies, items, gold, exp, lane compositions, objectives, turrets etc. You know, those that don't even belong in any Fighting game ever? Because we're balancing the game using the wrong memo that's why.

Riot has now to choose between letting LoL be a decent MOBA/ARTS game or a absolutely crap Fighting game, I don't think this choice requires even any thought to pick the right one.

EDIT:

It just seems to me people would enjoy playing against Zed/LB/Yasuo/etc where they actually have a chance of screwing up or being counterplayed rather than a Vlad that just mashes buttons dealing absurd damage while never dying.

For Vlad one can just pick Swain to make him cry all day, but with the likes of Zed one can only hope the enemy player is shiet. Which one is more enjoyable for you?

JustMyBassCannonJun 1, 20153 votes

On the other hand, the difference between simple and complex champions is the difference between counters and counter-play.

A counter is what you get out of Roshambo--Rock Paper Scissors--where one always wins one way and loses the other way. There isn't a single thing you can do if you have the wrong one, just sit there and lose. While that's fine in Roshambo, because the game takes seconds, League of Legends takes much longer. Being shut down and unable to do a thing about it because you picked the wrong thing--never mind that you're best at what you chose--is not a good feeling.

Counter-play, on the other hand, is having the ability to beat something if you do it right. It's a bit more complex than that, but the basic idea is that, rather than being guaranteed to work against A and never work against B, it is very strong against A, while only situationally useful against B. A still has ways to deal with the ability, but they have to be more careful, sometimes because it plays against their weaknesses. B has strengths that make the ability less effective, so it's not as much of a problem in most normal situations.

Simple champions tend more towards counters, while complex champions tend to have more counter-play available.

There's also differentiating simple and straightforward champions. The former is a champion with very few, connected mechanics, while the latter might have a lot of mechanics, but they all synchronize and don't get in the way of a simple playstyle.

SEKAIJun 1, 20154 votes

@JustMyBassCannon

This game is a team game.

Outplay is a team effort.

Games DO and SHOULD start in champ select.

For simpler champs, there are things that are guaranteed to work against you, and there are things guaranteed to work against them, which is pretty fair. It's not like the "guarantee" is absolute and nigh impossible to overcome, because that's where the plays and teamwork come in.

Complex champs have less counterplay because as I mentioned, you have to wait for enemies to make mistakes themselves instead of actually countering them with what you have. That's capitalising, not counterplaying, and simpler champs have both.

Synergies should be mostly between team members, every champ should have limited kit and item synergies with him/herself.

And remember, this game isn't a 1v1 Fighting game.

JustMyBassCannonJun 1, 20154 votes

{quoted}

This game is a team game.

Outplay is a team effort.

Games DO and SHOULD start in champ select.

By all means, of course it should start in champ select. But that should not be where the game ends, unless the team composition is truly horribly designed.

I'm not going to say that a CC-less team doesn't deserve to get reamed by Master Yi and Katarina, but I'm also not going to say I deserve to lose for going with a mage mid against Leblanc (talking about back when Leblanc had her silence). It goes both ways.

For simpler champs, there are things that are guaranteed to work against you, and there are things guaranteed to work against them, which is pretty fair. It's not like the "guarantee" is absolute and nigh impossible to overcome, that's where the plays and teamwork come in.

That's where the line between straightforward and simple is. Straightforward champions still have means to give and take counter-play because of the mechanics and teamwork available to them, but they still have clear strengths and weaknesses.

Look at Vi, just for one example. Her kit is straightforward, her playstyle is simple, but she has several background mechanics in play.

Complex champs have less counterplay because as I mentioned, you have to wait for enemies to make mistakes themselves instead of actually countering them with what you have. That's capitalising, not counterplaying, and simpler champs have both.

Counter-play is capitalizing on how someone makes a play. The very idea is reacting to how someone fights, and using it to your advantage in any way you can manage.

For example, skill shots: you can learn (as the attacker) how to predict your target's movements, and (as the defender) how to predict your aggressor's line of fire. Both are trying to create openings based on the other player's reactions.

Synergies should be mostly between team members, every champ should have limited kit and item synergies with him/herself.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a kit having strong self-synergy, so long as it still has clear strengths and weaknesses. Just because your kit has a bunch of tools that you can use, it doesn't mean you're going to be able to 1v5--even 1v3--against equally smart opponents.

And remember, this game isn't a 1v1 Fighting game.

No, it's not. Which is why one champion's kit being able to self-synergize a little more than another shouldn't bother you.

Let me know when one of these complex champions is regularly 1v5ing because the sheer number of kit tools available actually makes them a problem. Hint: it never will, outside of ~~Wood 5~~ Bronze

SEKAIJun 1, 20153 votes

@JustMyBassCannon

The game never really just ended in champ select, only Riot ever claimed that it was the case. I would agree there were a few cases such as the Urgot destroying everyone at bot lane back then, but really Riot was exaggerating it way too much.

I am not sure what's your definition on Simple and Straightforward and what their differences are, they sound the same to me, especially in the context of LoL's champ designs. Straightforward champs are simple to understand, simple to execute and also simple to play against/counter, I don't see the difference between the 2 words in this case.

No counterplay is not capitalising. Counterplay is a solution or at least a potential solution to a challenge, capitalising is just rubbing salts onto enemies' wounds, they are completely different things.

The counterplay to skill shots is not dodging, it's only the case if the skill shotting champs is severely punished after he misses it. A simple analogy would be,

Saying "the counterplay to guns is dodging" is a ridiculous idea because that makes 0 sense as he would just fire another after missing one anyway, but it would be the case if the gunner only has 1 bullet and is physically incapable of fighting you face to face in a melee situation hence dodging 1 single bullet is the end of him and that makes it a perfect "counterattack" option.

Not to mention when the games have champs where his/her kit size is just outright larger than another while being more spammable and more mobile, I really fail to see how this is balanced and fair because it's just not.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a kit having strong self-synergy, so long as it still has clear strengths and weaknesses.

Correct, but strong self-synergy generally comes in the form of overloaded kits, besides the case of say Vlad or Galio, but they are mostly fine because as you mention, they have clear strength and weaknesses, while the overloaded kits don't.

But really looking at LoL's recent history where as long as a normal kit champ isn't plaguing them game with absurd off the chart scalings or stats, the pro scene is just utterly dominated by mobility overloaded creeps, I really think that alone should already give people enough idea on how much overloading and mobility should be restricted in this game.

JustMyBassCannonJun 1, 20154 votes

{quoted}

The game never really just ended in champ select, only Riot ever claimed that it was the case. I would agree there were a few cases such as the Urgot destroying everyone at bot lane back then, but really Riot was exaggerating it way too much.

I played through the time when Talon was quite literally uncounterable in mid. Not even Talon countered Talon, because it was just a matter of who hit level 3/6 first.

I played when Xin Zhao was released. That part of my memory is blacked out for a reason.

There were other cases of champions having kits that punished teams if they didn't have the specific counter, but pointing them all out is not the point of the discussion, so I'm going to stop here.

I am not sure what's your definition on Simple and Straightforward and what their differences are, they sound the same to me, especially in the context of LoL's champ designs. Straightforward champs are simple to understand, simple to execute and also simple to play against/counter, I don't see the difference between the 2 words in this case.

There isn't any difference worth actually mentioning, when you view it like that, and I won't bother with details you'd probably consider moot.

No counterplay is not capitalising. Counterplay is a solution or at least a potential solution to a challenge, capitalising is just rubbing salts onto enemies' wounds, they are completely different things.

The counterplay to skill shots is not dodging, it's only the case if the skill shotting champs is severely punished after he misses it.

...Because it's not a punishment for them to be missing a quarter of their damage output and/or their CC, which is now on cooldown due to a misjudged shot.

To use your own differentiation, counter-play is dodging the skill shot. Capitalizing is firing back, because they went out of position to attempt their shot.

The entire point of counter-play is to create openings and capitalize on your opponent's mistakes. That is, always has been, counter-play in a nutshell.

A simple analogy would be,

Saying "the counterplay to guns is dodging" is a ridiculous idea because that makes 0 sense as he would just fire another after missing one anyway, but it would be the case if the gunner only has 1 bullet and is physically incapable of fighting you face to face in a melee situation hence dodging 1 single bullet is the end of him and that makes it a perfect "counterattack" option.

Except this isn't a fist fight with a gun, this is a MOBA with cooldowns, mana costs and strategic value attached to literally every piece of every champion's kit. Putting it on cooldown, only to miss, is a bigger disadvantage than you believe.

A more accurate analogy would be like the BattleCON fighting system; every time you use an attack pair, you have to wait two turns before you can use them again. You have to time how you combine your attacks, or you'll have the wrong ability unusable when you need it.

Not to mention when the games have champs where his/her kit size is just outright larger than another while being more spammable and more mobile, I really fail to see how this is balanced and fair because it's just not.

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by this. Please, elaborate.

Correct, but strong self-synergy generally comes in the form of overloaded kits, besides the case of say Vlad or Galio, but they are mostly fine because as you mention, they have clear strength and weaknesses, while the overloaded kits don't.

Ironically, Vladimir is considered one of the most toxic champions by design, while the unnamed 'overloaded' kits (I can imagine I have a relative idea to which champions you refer) are simply versatile while still counterable. I actually see more people having trouble dealing with Vladimir than with Ekko.

But really looking at LoL's recent history where as long as a normal kit champ isn't plaguing them game with absurd off the chart scalings or stats, the pro scene is just utterly dominated by mobility overloaded creeps, I really think that alone should already give people enough idea on how much overloading and mobility should be restricted in this game.

It's spectacle creep and mobility creep, which are not the same thing as kit overloading. Flashy champions are a lot of fun to play, and mobility allows for some really interesting duels and team fights. I'm not saying it's the only fun way to play League, but there's definite reason for the appeal.

SEKAIJun 1, 20151 votes

@JustMyBassCannon

Xin was later nerfed and reworked, Talon is no more mid lane monster. Riot makes a lot of mistakes, but the biggest mistake is introducing overloaded kits, because unlike reworking individual champs, reworking and fixing the entire philosophy with already many champs who have that out and running is not something you can just do in a few weeks.

Cooldowns is not enough of a punishment when they have other things they can be used to achieve the same effect anyway, such as Lee missing his Q literally does nothing to him, besides the first stage of the game from lvl 1-3, and let's not mention how short his CDs are in higher levels, and near no resource management.

Cooldown is a punish when you have a kit of 4 skills that uses some form of resource that is not easily replenish-able, since 25+% of what you have has just gone in a flash if you missed it, but not when your kit is twice as big than others since you only suffer from half the loss, maybe even less depending on who we're talking about.

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by this. Please, elaborate.

Playing against someone who just has a bigger kit size than you do is never fun. It's not because I suck that I don't outplay as much as the overloaded kits while using the standard kits, it's because I have a restriction on what I can and cannot do, that's the risk I take and i get rewarded accordingly for my success.

Overloaded kits have no or less risk because they have a kit size that is larger than his opponents, giving them more things and options to go with under any circumstances, hence they can intentionally go into situations or make silly mistakes that otherwise would just spell doom to the standard kits and get away with it. And that's just unfair as a whole.

And as I have mentioned before, playing overloaded against overloaded is just pointless since neither of you can do anything besides waiting for each other to screw up.

Ironically, Vladimir is considered one of the most toxic champions by design

Back in S2 or so, yeah he was toxic beyond belief. But other than that, he is only known for being a boring lane to play against, due to his passive-aggressive snowball-ish play style. People only have trouble playing against him in low elos and solo queue mostly, he is only coming back recently because he is like a few champs, Luden's Echo compatible, That's not saying his kit itself is problematic, annoying yes, toxic no.

Spectacle creep is mobility creep in the context of LoL atm, because you can attempt to escape even after you're already sentenced to death by 5 man gank which shouldn't happen in this type of genre as you SHOULD be punished when the enemy team out-plan/play you or after you had made a stupid mistake. Kits being too big is encouraging flashy plays but on the other hand, decreasing the substance and consequences of actions as a whole.

BluePolarizerJun 1, 20153 votes

Just to give you an example of a super overloaded champ that wins games 1v5:

Ahri.

In plat elo, I've literally had Ahris 1v5 our team despite the rest of the enemy team being super far behind because we didn't have enough point and click hard CC. This is because she has an incredibly overloaded kit. Who thought it was a great idea to give a ranged AOE mage 3 escapes + a MS boost that makes her more mobile than most fighters and assassins?

A good Ahri has literally no counter except "shut her down pre-6". That's fine and all but she can just AFK farm pre-6 and then go ham on you. Even if she can't go ham on you because you are too strong (Annie, Cho'Gath, Talon) she can just roam with superior mobility and wreck your other lanes.

A good Ahri can kite Zed and Master Yi. Think about that for a second. How many champs have the mobility and CC to solo kite Zed and Master Yi? Not even Vayne or Kalista can 1v1 kite Zed or Master Yi.

Even Zed, who is complained about as overloaded, can't do shit to an optimally played Ahri since she can dodge his post-ult Shurikens and take only a single auto worth of damage even without considering that she buys Zhonya's anyways.

JustMyBassCannonJun 1, 20152 votes

I'm skeptical, but intrigued.

All the same, it's not like Ahri's damage output went up at all. She actually lost damage before she became popular, and suddenly she's secretly dominating high ranking? What gives? Why haven't I heard anything from anyone else?

...I mean, I guess it could have gotten buried under the Ekko complaints, but I do scroll for a page or two worth of threads, so I don't know how I would have missed something like this.

BluePolarizerJun 1, 20151 votes

She hasn't changed since her 55% win in the "DFG compensation" patch. She used to be able to be shut down when her ult was on CD or pre-6. No longer; she has MS boost on her Q now, such that you can NEVER shut her down without her making a mistake.

It doesn't matter that she has slightly less damage; she has enough damage to wreck any non full tank champ (even 3 defensive item bruisers) while now being a "kite mage". Note what a mage usually is: immobile, but has huge AOE damage and CC. Well, a "kite mage" is a mage that has huge AOE damage, CC, and now, mobility. How the fk is that not broken?

There are too many Ahri "mains" that like their freelo anime waifu who is literally an animal, so no one complains about her. Of course, you realize how bullshit she is when you get see platinum Master Yi and Zed players get kited around like bronzes by her, then killed if they make a single mistake, while she has to make multiple mistakes to not be in threat. If you are playing a melee bruiser or assassin, the play is "dodge a point blank high missile speed 2 second hard CC, or die" while hers is "leisurely R away from any threats". If you are a ranged mage with lots of skillshots, she can just gapclose to you, charm you, and kill you, while taking zero damage because she is more mobile than Kalista. She is the best solo queue mid laner in the game as of now.

MatezoideJun 1, 20152 votes

In general, simple and complex champions bring different things to the game (And neither of them are inherently toxic) , i would say theres little issue in having them both, despite what OP seems to be suggesting.

JustMyBassCannonJun 1, 20153 votes

The only "problem" comes in balancing how they function, which is the core problem of the game in the first place. Riot has been spinning these plates for years, and they haven't dropped enough to ruin the show.

There's definitely room for simplicity and complexity both in League.

YossarianSenseiJun 2, 20153 votes

Even if the Zed is good you can still dodge his spells and cleanse his ult

Meanwhile Vlad just walks around mashing buttons, you either run away from him or die. The choice is clear for me.

SEKAIJun 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Even if the Zed is good you can still dodge his spells and cleanse his ult

Meanwhile Vlad just walks around mashing buttons, you either run away from him or die. The choice is clear for me.

If you have read my posts you would understand my points clearer.

Also you can't cleanse Death Mark without using QSS, the summoner spell Cleanse doesn't work on it.

lB2kGRlc8yJun 1, 20159 votes

Did you just place LB in the high risk category? I don't think you understand what risk is. Risk is playing talon and blinkstriking into an enemy team with no free bail out built into the kit.

SEKAIJun 1, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Risk is playing talon and blinkstriking into an enemy team with no free bail out built into the kit.

Correct.

Another example, Yi has to kill somebody to earn the refresh before even thinking about escaping, but even then his escape mechanics is mediocre at best. Hence to reward him, when he is fed he could 1 shot people with relative ease with no efforts put in, given he has survived his own fundamental weakness by avoiding being capitalised.

However in the likes of Zed, he automatically gets a reliable blink escape (or 2) whenever he gets in to 100-0'ing people, even before he does anything. That's no risk, at least thankfully he is now gonna have one.

EllphiJun 2, 20151 votes

That's one aspect of risk

The other aspect of risk is you suck at LB and offer absolutely nothing to the team. WIth Talon you can at least press all the buttons and be guaranteed an OK amount of damage before you die.

lB2kGRlc8yJun 2, 20151 votes

To play Leblanc poorly enough to not hit Distortion the second time, you'd have to basically have to have never played an RTS in your life, and don't understand the Setup of the game whatsoever. She basically has to be the first champ you played in your first game of your first MOBA.

EllphiJun 3, 20151 votes

Her distortion is neither instant nor does it make her invulnerable

You'd have to have 'never played an RTS in your life' to be unable to trade back against an LB dashing towards you, or at least not move out the way of at least a couple W's

Best Darius KRJun 2, 20151 votes

....and with LeBlanc...?

MatezoideJun 1, 20155 votes

Olaf less risk/counterplay than a competent LeBlanc

LOL

You can outplay simpler champions just the same as flashy ones. This shit "Simple is bad!" logic needs to gtfo.

Hell, did you see Garen's recent buffs? Still struggles to be a decent pick due to his kit's weaknesses, while the likes of Zed and Ekko have no real weak points

You are thinking for 1v1 when this is a team game. It is much easier to outplay Darius than Zed during actual team fights.

YossarianSenseiJun 2, 20151 votes

You ever even faced pre-nerf Olaf?

Ghost + Unkillable Pure tank + Un-peelable + Perma-slow + gib potential on your carries. Also unbeatable in lane. Such 'counterplay'

SvddenlyJun 2, 20151 votes

That isn't how he is right now is it? That's what I thought.

EllphiJun 3, 20151 votes

Riot changed his kit so that it's incredibly hard to be both tanky and deal damage, you have to be pretty far ahead on Olaf now to be a juggernaut

ChargeItDownMidJun 1, 20155 votes

[deleted]

YossarianSenseiJun 1, 20151 votes

I can understand if GD wanted simple numbers tweaks to the LCS champs, but it seems most people hate the kits for what they are, not the stats

I can certainly agree that release Yasuo was overtuned, but you still get daily threads complaining about Windwall and his passive even after he's been nerfed into a universally unviable pick

Zed was already significantly weaker than most other assassins assuming equal skill, yet he still got a mechanical nerf.

SlytherinUmbreonJun 1, 20154 votes

It just seems to me people would enjoy playing against Zed/LB/Yasuo

And that's where you're horribly wrong. Leblanc is one of the most unanimously hated champions in the game to be playing against. Being "fun to play as" really doesn't change that at all. She's not even complex...

YossarianSenseiJun 1, 20151 votes

But you like being in a Teemo vs Garen lane where both champs are incredibly binary and offer very little outplay potential?

SlytherinUmbreonJun 1, 20151 votes

Leblanc gives Outplay potential? Since when? And when did she stop being Binary?

LaserDeathBladeJun 2, 20152 votes

You can move out the way of her E and W?....

She dies in like 2 hits?....

She's outranged by a lot of AP mids?...

101100111000Jun 2, 20153 votes

She dies in the 2 hits you'll never land because she's mobile as shit.

If she goes into hit you with her W and misses, she can push W again, and try again later. Congratz, no risk.

Her E has magnet-skillshot syndrome and is barely getting a hitbox nerf on the PBE. That tends to indicate her E isn't all that easy to dodge.

Outranged my ass. Her own gapcloser serves to mitigate the range advantage considerably, and allows her to avoid the issue of range by dodging skill shots at leisure.

Champions that can deal with her either have the capacity to instagib her faster than she can them and/or have tools to easily avoid her damage ( Fizz ), outright counter her design ( Galio ), or just farm minions so hard early game and deny her the ability to roam ( Heimerdinger ).

effybooJun 1, 20152 votes

everything that beats me is OP

We should bring back pre-nerf Annie for a few more weeks so everyone can understand what "toxic overloaded kit" really means.

Only Play DariusJun 1, 20151 votes

Pre-which nerf? She's had several.

BluePolarizerJun 1, 20152 votes

Annie season 3 (before any nerfs) was getting rekt by the likes of Kha'Zix, Zed and Fizz, all of whom were "squishy melee assassins" that she actually counters. She got rekt in the meta that was supposed to be her peak.

BluePolarizerJun 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It just seems to me people would enjoy playing against Zed/LB/Yasuo/etc where they actually have a chance of screwing up or being counterplayed rather than a Vlad that just mashes buttons dealing absurd damage while never dying.

LeBlanc cannot die without making multiple severe mistakes in a row. She can't even die to most jungler ganks. I believe the only time a conservatively played LeBlanc can die is before she gets Zhonya's against a fed Rengar that lands his snare in midair. Of course that rarely happens as Rengar jungle farms slowly while Rengar top gets rekt by lane swaps or tanks.

Meanwhile Vlad only has to make a single mistake and he's dead. No mobility, overextend while jungler/roaming mid/roaming support is near? Dead. Move into Q range against someone with a stun early game? Chunked for half his HP.

Even if for some reason Leblanc has not crushed her lane opponent, and they are actually winning, the correct play is to roam and get fed from other lanes with her incredibly high base damage and mobility.

YossarianSenseiJun 1, 20152 votes

This game isn't about KDA though. An unskilled LB might have a good 'KDA' but offer very little to the team because she can't combo properly or know when to go in.

BluePolarizerJun 1, 20151 votes

in bronze, you think the game is about KDA.

in silver, you learn its about objectives.

in plat, you realize that late game, kills ARE objectives because you can snowball a single pick into a game winning push.

LeBlanc is the best champ late game because of this - she takes the best objective in late game - an enemy champ - the easiest and safest. You don't need to know when to go in. See enemy non-tank alone or isolated? Go in.

YossarianSenseiJun 2, 20151 votes

Late game is where champion skill really matters

There's no a shitlord LB is going to do anything but die late game. Same with Zed.

Meanwhile even the most pathetic of Irelias can lock down a carry.

BluePolarizerJun 2, 20151 votes

in plat nobody is THAT bad to just die for free on a late game LB.

does that mean that in LCS, where nobody makes mechanical mistakes, that picking certain champs should be instant win?

YossarianSenseiJun 2, 20151 votes

Yes? Do you not see Faker's LB lol

There's a reason Faker carries every LB game whereas XiaoWeiXiao feeds every time

IcyPepperJun 2, 20151 votes

As much as I dislike mobility, you do have a good point there.

You certainly cast a different light on a common topic, OP. Gotta give you props there, it's quite persuasive.

LaserDeathBladeJun 2, 20152 votes

People be here whining all day about CertainlyT champs, but then go into Ranked and cry every time there's a Zed on their own team

Simple question: If you were in your League promos, would you rather have a Ziggs or a Yasuo?

Angry MonsterJun 2, 20151 votes

god i wish for neither. If i had to take one i would care about who the rest of my team was.

Though with ludins out now, i probably prefer the zigs.

MLDzXnRRRJun 2, 20152 votes

People "love" simple champions, but half the QQ here was about champions like Annie, Akali, Trundamere, Blitz, FIora, Kata, Irelia - all these are not hard to play and are stat sticks, with enough stats, they delete you without any effort. Why should Trynda and Fiora be stronger than Yasuo - even monkey can play them?

Angry MonsterJun 2, 20151 votes

man OP you ruin your own post right off the bat. Nunu, cho, vlad, and janna are all relatively current pro play champs(LCK, LPL and LCS). Man they must be good now that you know that they are played right?

Look at your really bad (cause it stupid as fuck)played in LCS list(why is ekko even there), these are all highly forgiving champs that if you fuck up is hard to punish. I wounder why the pros play champs that if they mess up have get out of jail free cards? Safety is a stat that just does not have a tangle number tied to it. How much do you value it, pros put a lot of value on it.

Meh you assuming a lot with your post and see things that are not really there.