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Lissandra Really Needs a Buff

NotAPurpleFrog··7 votes·5,016 views

See, she doesn't need a Damage buff, she needs more range or a cooldown reduction.

Her Q is really good, if not for the fact it's a tad bit short to trade with.

Her W is also quite good, but instead of being a Stun, it's a Root, and the only time you will use this is to Combo someone or to Run Away

  • The Range basically makes you only use it for #2 because for a mage, it's really only melee range it's useful in, putting her in danger.

Her E is a very good tool to engage / disengage, except for the fact it's very VERY telegraphed and can easily be targeted by CC and Nukes / Skillshots.

Her R is also a very good tool in 1v1s, 1v2s and teamfights, but you cannot cast it on Allies.

What I think could be a good change:

  • If her Q got a couple units extra so you could land it more often, that'd be great.
  • Her W needs a bit more range or maybe it could be a skillshot, or even make it a .5s stun that scales with level - though the damage would be nerfed.
  • Her E could use less of an indicator or maybe it could be faster?
  • If her R could be cast upon teammates with a lesser heal, that'd also be a pretty good buff.

I know Riot is giving her more of a "Damage Passive", but this is something just to think about.

29 Comments

Hovering Hentai3 votes

Buffing her Q is always a bad idea - it leads to Lissandra top lane becoming ridiculously oppressive

How would you make her W a skill shot? It's strength lies in the fact that it's a 360 degree, instant aoe cc. It's essentially used the same way Riven's stun is used, to draw out her combos and lock opponents in place for an easy Q in trading. It also lasts long enough for her to normally escape a situation

Her E will get a faster initial animation when she gets her rework and a slight damage buff I believe to encourage her to use it more aggressively in trades

If she could cast her ult on allies then she could use her ultimate three different ways - two of them defensive and that would be incredibly overloaded, even for an ultimate ability

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hovering Hentai,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-18T23:22:52.905+0000)

Buffing her Q is always a bad idea - it leads to Lissandra top lane becoming ridiculously oppressive

I guess

How would you make her W a skill shot? It's strength lies in the fact that it's a 360 degree, instant aoe cc. It's essentially used the same way Riven's stun is used, to draw out her combos and lock opponents in place for an easy Q in trading. It also lasts long enough for her to normally escape a situation

Ya, but it's only useful when you're in Melee range, and you have 20 Armor and 30 MR as Lissandra in the early game.

Her E will get a faster initial animation when she gets her rework and a slight damage buff I believe to encourage her to use it more aggressively in trades

I hope it does.

If she could cast her ult on allies then she could use her ultimate three different ways - two of them defensive and that would be incredibly overloaded, even for an ultimate ability

True

King Braum3 votes

okay so this might be an unpopular opinion but.. in this rampant damage meta, how about instead of buffing lissandra, we nerf the overal damage, runes, items, champions, It'll probably take a while but probably be worth the wait, and then see how she preforms.

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-19T00:20:50.927+0000)

okay so this might be an unpopular opinion but.. in this rampant damage meta, how about instead of buffing lissandra, we nerf the overal damage, runes, items, champions, It'll probably take a while but probably be worth the wait, and then see how she preforms.

I don't think her Damage needs a buff, it's her E's animation and her W's size.

King Braum1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think her Damage needs a buff, it's her E's animation and her W's size.

Oh, my mistake. We'll same point still applies I'd say we'd need to lower overall damage and see how champions would respond to having a bit more breathing room but changes like that probably wouldn't hurt.

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-19T00:49:31.756+0000)

Oh, my mistake. We'll same point still applies I'd say we'd need to lower overall damage and see how champions would respond to having a bit more breathing room but changes like that probably wouldn't hurt.

I agree that if we Nerf ALL Damage in the game by like 20%, the games would last longer and not be decided within the first "First Blood/Tower"

Autumn Grace2 votes

Before buffing lissandra, get one for anivia too

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Autumn Grace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-18T22:31:32.406+0000)

Before buffing lissandra, get one for anivia too

Anivia is still played in the LCS, she has had a rework and some buffs I believe, Anivia is pretty good so she's played in the LCS, I don't even see Lissandra in Draft Pick - Let alone Ranked.

Psyrix2 votes

Lissandra is getting buffed, quite sure the E is gonna have the same total time if not shorter, but the initial speed is gonna be faster. Quite sure the rest of the abilities are jsut getting number changes, and the passive frozen statue thing is getting added... they might add the current passive onto one of her abilities (like they did with Ahri).

Vlada Cut1 votes

No, because that would lead her into being overbuffed considering she was buffed not so long ago. Don't let Lissandra meet the same way Graves and Kindred did - do you really want the boards scream for Lissandra to get gutted? Give her some time, see how she wil be if other mages or mid laners get adjusted.

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-18T23:58:07.566+0000)

No, because that would lead her into being overbuffed considering she was buffed not so long ago. Don't let Lissandra meet the same way Graves and Kindred did - do you really want the boards scream for Lissandra to get gutted? Give her some time, see how she wil be if other mages or mid laners get adjusted.

So she doesn't need a buff, yet I literally never see her in any games and she has a low winrate?

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

So she doesn't need a buff, yet I literally never see her in any games and she has a low winrate?

What exactly is her winrate and pick rate if I can ask?

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-19T00:53:49.609+0000)

What exactly is her winrate and pick rate if I can ask?

https://champion.gg/champion/Lissandra/Middle?

Poske1 votes

Lets start with how viable lissandra is According to lolalytics on Euw there is

  1. Diamond1 Liss
  2. Master tier Liss

According to lolalytics on Korea there is 2. Chall Lissandras (So its possible, this is not possible for every champ) 3. Master tier lissandras

Lissandra is a champion who can be flexed, extra valuability potentional for pro play

There are champions in this game who have 0 chall players on good servers There are champions in this game who have only 1 master tier player on good servers

Velkoz, vayne, veigar.. this champions need buffs... Lissandra not so much she is bassicly perfectly balanced

Liss has 2 challs and 4 masters. Which isnt high but it sort of means she doesnt need a buff.....

What I think could be a good change:

  • If her Q got a couple units extra so you could land it more often, that'd be great.

Lissandra is desinged to be melee range mage her Q already has insanely high hitrate, no cooldown and cheats the low range idea even spreads itself. If anything its to easy to land

  • Her W needs a bit more range or maybe it could be a skillshot, or even make it a .5s stun that scales with level - though the damage would be nerfed.

Her W has 0 counterplay as it is. this would make liss even more off an anti melee champion... which is why people generaly refuse even mini buffs for her She just becomes another skilless Ranged toplane cancer.

  • Her E could use less of an indicator or maybe it could be faster?

Its slow on purpose. Lots of dashes in league should be slower.

  • If her R could be cast upon teammates with a lesser heal, that'd also be a pretty good buff.

You could literaly troll your allies? I am not a big fan of Bard R even..... Kayle already has this niche but doesnt troll her allies

I know Riot is giving her more of a "Damage Passive", but this is something just to think about.

Well yeah lissandra players want their passive changed. eventhough they dont understand that lissandra bassicly has no passive (high mana costs due to this passive) because she already has 4 really good abilities. I just hope liss players understand that if they want an actual passive she ll have to get nerfed elsewhere which ofcourse none understands but whatever.

QmegaSquadVeigar1 votes

Agreed on the Veigar buff, but please not another scaling buff.

mzicio1 votes

Lissandra is an abomination of a champion meant to counterplay a whole fucking class with no effort. Sorry, but she needs to stay in the trash bin.

Netorare3 votes

At least she requires more skill than a assassin that gets duskblade and then the lane is over... If u think duskblade and stormrazor are balanced ur delusional.

mzicio1 votes

I never said that, actually I've heard they're making their passives unique somewhere, which is something I'd love. Duskblade is still busted and requires a mini rework to avoid making it mandatory on every fucking AD assassin.

HOWEVER, the fact that you have a bias against assassins (most of which are fine and are frustrating because of the items) doesn't mean that you can agree with the existence of a champion like Lissandra. Her ultimate and W are to assassins what a windwall is to an ADC, except you can actually play around the latter.

She deserves being trash until she actually gets some form of counterplay to her crowd control.

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

{quoted}

I never said that, actually I've heard they're making their passives unique somewhere, which is something I'd love. Duskblade is still busted and requires a mini rework to avoid making it mandatory on every fucking AD assassin.

HOWEVER, the fact that you have a bias against assassins (most of which are fine and are frustrating because of the items) doesn't mean that you can agree with the existence of a champion like Lissandra. Her ultimate and W are to assassins what a windwall is to an ADC, except you can actually play around the latter.

She deserves being trash until she actually gets some form of counterplay to her crowd control.

All I'm getting from this is you play Assassins, Lissandra is weak as fuck but is also overpowered and just because you hate her means she deserves to be trash. She is a Battle mage that can Kite, she isn't a fucking tank that has 3 abilities with stuns, she has a Slow on her Short range Q, a .75s Root, mobility and a 1.5s Stun that deals damage, AS AN ULTIMATE.

While assassins over here Like Zed:

Have High AD Ratios + 80 AD to start off with Spammable abilities Long range Poke a Blink + more poke + an escape an aoe slow that deals damage a point and click nuke that bursts and leaves him an escape which also can deal damage

Lissandra has High mana costs Waveclear 2 hard CC abilities a slow ass blink a heal zhonyas

mzicio1 votes

Irrelevant to what I've said in the post above as I was talking about counterplay and not... whatever the fuck you were trying to explain to me? Lmao.

  1. Yes, I play assassins. I'm a Kha'zix main.

  2. No, I never said anything about Lissandra being strong or weak, I just stated that the way she interacts with assassins is stupidly one-sided, which is way I'd prefer her to stay trash until I'm not automatically dead if she chooses to peel.

  3. Why even choose Zed as a candidate for comparison? He's a caster/assassin hybrid overloaded mess of a champion that should never be compared to anyone to start with.

  4. You forgot the fact that she's a teamfight monster. Not saying that I'm not okay with it, but you're not giving a proper description and your comparison is invalid.

Want to know what counterplay means? Look at the new Nunu E, he has to hit at least a snowball in order to be able to root you. Yes, the volley is very fast and can be recasted, but you can dodge it.

Meanwhile if Lissandra decides that she doesn't want you to exists she can press her R key while hovering her mouse over your little squishy assassin ass and you're dead. Don't get me wrong, the fact that she counters assassins is good, it's just that she does that in such a cheap way...

NotAPurpleFrog2 votes

{quoted}

Irrelevant to what I've said in the post above as I was talking about counterplay and not... whatever the fuck you were trying to explain to me? Lmao.

  1. Yes, I play assassins. I'm a Kha'zix main.

  2. No, I never said anything about Lissandra being strong or weak, I just stated that the way she interacts with assassins is stupidly one-sided, which is way I'd prefer her to stay trash until I'm not automatically dead if she chooses to peel.

  3. Why even choose Zed as a candidate for comparison? He's a caster/assassin hybrid overloaded mess of a champion that should never be compared to anyone to start with.

  4. You forgot the fact that she's a teamfight monster. Not saying that I'm not okay with it, but you're not giving a proper description and your comparison is invalid.

Want to know what counterplay means? Look at the new Nunu E, he has to hit at least a snowball in order to be able to root you. Yes, the volley is very fast and can be recasted, but you can dodge it.

Meanwhile if Lissandra decides that she doesn't want you to exists she can press her R key while hovering her mouse over your little squishy assassin ass and you're dead. Don't get me wrong, the fact that she counters assassins is good, it's just that she does that in such a cheap way...

She has a terrible laning phase, she's good in teamfights yes, but so is anyone with CC, her W cc is taking up a slot that could be straight damage, like Xerath.

NotAPurpleFrog2 votes

{quoted}

Lissandra is an abomination of a champion meant to counterplay a whole fucking class with no effort. Sorry, but she needs to stay in the trash bin.

Like Assassins take any effort?

mzicio1 votes

The problem with assassins is that Riot went way too overkill with the items. While the majority of them is not very hard to learn, they don't deserve being called "effortless". Call duskblade effortless, then I can agree.

Noor Sakata1 votes

Dude .. she has 50.59% winrate you sure don't need to see her buffed , the same thing will happen with Ahri , Ahri had around 49-50% winrate , and got a small buff and you can see how much boards are circle jerking about her I don't mind extra range on Lissandra w but pls , making it a stun is a huge problem

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WK6Gs5ZG,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-08-19T12:24:34.633+0000)

Dude .. she has 50.59% winrate you sure don't need to see her buffed , the same thing will happen with Ahri , Ahri had around 49-50% winrate , and got a small buff and you can see how much boards are circle jerking about her I don't mind extra range on Lissandra w but pls , making it a stun is a huge problem

49%

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

EVERY control mage needs a buff dude. The problem is with burst being so high at the moment, CC is equatable to shooting fish in a barrel. This means any control mage has been nerfed to hell so that at least they require someone to do the damage while they CC. Sucks, but that's the meta.

Frozen Diva1 votes

Lissandra is actually balanced and her upcoming passive rework will make her stronger. Some other champions are just overpowered imho.

My opinion as a Liss main: Lissandra is stupidly OP in bronze-gold because of how """unfair""" her kit is but nobody seems to abuse it because she sees no pro play. At least that's my experience. The speed of her E doesn't matter in this elo btw.

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

The only thing that truly annoys me about Lissandra is that her E CD feels absolutely atrocious for how telegraphed it is.

I'd rather they buff the CD a little bit than anything else before she gets her new passive.

wolvius1 votes

I would rather that when you have selfcast ult bound to a keybind that it would actually prioritise yourself instead of whatever hypermobile ping pong the mouse pointer is hovering over.

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