As an Elise main, wtf happened to the heal buff from her passive? 5/10/15/20/25 +15% ap ratio? That didn't make her oppressive. I thought riot's goal is to IMPROVE her late game and encourage players to max her spider form. Why did you nerf it to 4/6/8/10?! (10% ap ratio) for no reason?!
It proves that Riot doesn't give a shit about elise.
Emperor Time13 votesElise will never be good again, not until both her E abilities are back to their original state and her defensive stats from spider form and her damage are brought back. She was over overpowered at the time because back in season 3 early game was like the only part of the game that mattered, but now with how dragons and how the jungle is now I would say it would be fine for Elise to gain some of her lost power back from all of the nerfs she's had to endure over the course of 2 seasons. Elise is heavily dependent on magic penetration and Dragons were a huge source of income back in the day, but now Dragons now longer give out the gold that they once did. Also ganking was a way bigger part of the game back in the day than it is now. You can actually come back from a game even if you've been ganked 4 times in a row thanks to how Dragons work and because of how powerful baron buff is now. Elise used to be a god at ganking and at taking dragons, but now dragons don't give her the gold she needs to get her items faster and ganking is her big thing, but there are champions out now that not only out damage her, but also out sustain her and are much easier to use. (Like Rek'sai/Gragas/Evelynn.) Even if Elise got all these things back I highly doubt she would instantly become a god tier pick again because of all the new junglers that have hit the jungling scene since she's been away.
Emperor Antares1 votesfuk your champion
Anidan6 votesno u.
Nailed it.
EvilRabbitt4 votesI'd argue Evelynn pretty heavily, the rest I agree with. Bought Elise, tried her, loved her- took her to a game against real people and could not pull it together. =/ Elise needs her buffs.
Hard4Hamsters5 votesYou had me at "what happened to the heal buff?" You lost me with your language use and more or less you just sounding like you're whining. You can make a reasonable argument without using offensive language and pointing fingers/making harsh accusations.
Craft Zeppelin24 votesHe has a good reason to be like this. Really
ShuffledPancake4 votesNope, cant enforce that its right to be toxic.
CatSith18 votesWhats toxic is that riot took liberty to nerfing it to 10% without testing how it would affect her.
ShuffledPancake2 votesNone the less he has no good reason to be toxic, i doubt (Highly) that you can balance a champ like elise to a good standard. vs all other laners/junglers and all the current items.
CatSith19 votesHe has a good reason to be angry, This change was suppose to help her not make her weaker. Yes, you can balance Elise to a good standard. They just went too far into nerfing her.
ShuffledPancake1 votesNone the less he has no good reason to be toxic
I said toxic not angry, toxic is speaking out angry doesn't have to be.
You can be angry all you want, gets you no where. Also i said YOU not ME
Holyfields2 votesSo him speaking out about his disappointment in the Elise buff (nerf) is toxic?
ShuffledPancake1 votesIt proves that Riot doesn't give a shit about elise.
CHEERS
EDIT: Downvotes = nothing to people that know better.
GhostButter2g7 votesCHEERS
EDIT: Downvotes = nothing to people that know better.
Logged on just to downvote you. I could argue that you are being toxic. Your comments have no merit except to poke at someone already OBVIOUSLY angry. They were off topic and inflammatory. You were trying to do nothing more than cause trouble. You deserve every downvote. I believe that your comments are 10 times more toxic than the original post.
This post is also toxic as it is an attack directed at a single person, when I should have just ignored you and moved on. If we continue this trend... any reply to this post would ALSO be toxic and now you can see just how stupid all of this all was.
Vistha Kai1 votesI like pancakes, but as they say, the first pancake is always spoiled.
Sammystorm1 votesNo but the way the post is phrased is not helpful, very accusatory, and isn't looking for a reason but rather looking for a scape goat.
Tourian1 votesWhats toxic is that riot took liberty to nerfing it to 10% without testing how it would affect her.
Jesus christ this. I was sooo pissed that they snuck it in like that. Back when it was legit half I had hope. At this point I kinda just hope they leave her the hell alone until they're ready to rework her.
Neo Cyrus1 votesYou know what's actually toxic? Your beta attitude. It's fucking poisonous.
Erockandroll4 votesWhat they're doing, is the exact Opposite of what they did to Sej.
Their not buffing her Severely, right before a major item change(s) that could Over do her balancing, leading to immediate nerfs.
They're taking this more Cautiously. considering that their under the Impression that She isn't actually that far off.
We are having a major AP Item mess up happening next patch. And I'm pretty sure they will Buff RuinGlaive this or next patch.
B3ER3 votesRiot balance team is retarded. We knew this already and it wont change.
Cerbearus2 votesDon't forget the "buff" Rappel gives her increases her healing! If only it didn't bug out her spiderlings to completely stop attacking...
Lemons222 votesI think it's so funny cause I watched the patch rundown and they were all circlejerking about Elise like "I think she's in a good spot now!" And her win rate is literally WORSE than it was before...and she was already statistically the worst jungler before this patch. They literally nerfed the worst jungler in the game.
TwitchInMyPants1 votesTbh I don't mind them cutting the sustain... tho you can't do that to the lowest winrate/pickrate character in the game without compensation. Technically there's better late game sustain tho its so insignificant and the rest of her kit is still garbage. After midgame she stops being a champion. Her stun is one of the weaker stuns and it has no damage and misses a lot. Her E range is pathetic, you can sometimes jump with it, usually you get spotted a mile before being able to initiate anything. And her few damage spells she has have all been nerfed and don't scale so she can't really bully you and have a tangible advantage for having no ultimate.
I don't know how Riot can pretend that these changes for Elise were good for her when everything in the game is still working against her. Olaf is more viable at this point and that's quite a statement.
khorney1 votesPerhaps try her ad then that may merit something better because natural lifesteal isn't bad because that's each individual spiderling
Skia Asteri1 votesPerhaps try her ad then that may merit something better because natural lifesteal isn't bad because that's each individual spiderling
Not any more. It is only her own autos that restore HP now.
khorney1 votesStill . would be good or better then running her ap
Roaranor1 votesIs the lowering of the ratio really that bad? I'm asking because I hadn't fiddled with it yet, but it doesn't seem like it'd be that noticeable. I mean sure it heals for less, but it's now permanent as opposed to being tied to her W active only. On top of that, it gets a steroid from her rappel.
I'm not sure how that plays out in actual gameplay, but it doesn't seem that bad to me, so I'm legitimately asking. Personally, I'd love for her to get some of her early game strength back and it seems like the 5.12 changes were leaning towards that. Sure she's not nearly a strong as she used to be, but she's getting there slowly.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=CC Kero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W5MQAnPU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-06-27T19:44:05.215+0000)
Is the lowering of the ratio really that bad? I'm asking because I hadn't fiddled with it yet, but it doesn't seem like it'd be that noticeable. I mean sure it heals for less, but it's now permanent as opposed to being tied to her W active only. On top of that, it gets a steroid from her rappel.
I'm not sure how that plays out in actual gameplay, but it doesn't seem that bad to me, so I'm legitimately asking. Personally, I'd love for her to get some of her early game strength back and it seems like the 5.12 changes were leaning towards that. Sure she's not nearly a strong as she used to be, but she's getting there slowly.
The thing is that it is only really a buff for your healing to be permanent if you're randomly in a lane sustaining off minions. Elise's dueling is reliant on Skittering Frenzy to the point that when it stops your damage drops off enough that you can't continue autoing people, so she preferred the greater burst healing over the much lower continuous heal.
Roaranor1 votesSo the intended pattern of perma healing to promote healthier jungle clears, then burst heal from rappel in fights is underwhelming? I can see that being the case if being forced to rappel is the only way to access it as opposed to popping her W, but is it not even satisfactory with that steroid added?
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=CC Kero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W5MQAnPU,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-06-27T22:30:44.077+0000)
So the intended pattern of perma healing to promote healthier jungle clears, then burst heal from rappel in fights is underwhelming? I can see that being the case if being forced to rappel is the only way to access it as opposed to popping her W, but is it not even satisfactory with that steroid added?
I find it disappointing at least. The only point of the game where it feels better is the very first clear and frankly Elise was amazing at that as is. People will tell you that people can clear her entire jungle without a leash or health pots and... they're right. After that point it's a flat nerf to my eyes - your spiders were always able to survive the jungle camps and your new personal heal value is only higher assuming the spiderlings are dropping like flies. On top of that, with a few levels and some AP you can easily clear every camp during the duration of Skittering Frenzy, meaning the fact that you heal even without the steroid is essentially worthless.
In the middle of a fight, depending on how quickly your spiderlings die, your post-Rappel healing will likely exceed your old healing. But even this ideal situation has trade-offs - before if you were crowd controlled or went into stasis (i.e. Zhonya's), your spiderlings would continue attacking and healing you while you yourself were unable to act. You don't get that sustain anymore. Basically:
And as I said I think healing outside of Skittering Frenzy is essentially irrelevant in team fights, you simply do not heal enough to live without the AS steroid. So having passive healing... basically only becomes useful when you're healing up off a wave of minions.
Roaranor1 votesAlrighty, I think I got the gist of it. Thanks for the talk.
Tourian1 votes[{quoted}](name=CC Kero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W5MQAnPU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-06-27T19:44:05.215+0000)
Is the lowering of the ratio really that bad? I'm asking because I hadn't fiddled with it yet, but it doesn't seem like it'd be that noticeable. I mean sure it heals for less, but it's now permanent as opposed to being tied to her W active only. On top of that, it gets a steroid from her rappel.
I'm not sure how that plays out in actual gameplay, but it doesn't seem that bad to me, so I'm legitimately asking. Personally, I'd love for her to get some of her early game strength back and it seems like the 5.12 changes were leaning towards that. Sure she's not nearly a strong as she used to be, but she's getting there slowly.
As someone who tested this change the whole course of the pbe, it was fantastic till they shit on the base heal. And then it was at least equal. But then that 5 percent decrease they snuck in made a huge difference believe it or not.
Roaranor1 votesI see. I'll keep that in mind when testing them, thanks for the info.
SoMNia1 votesIt's true. I was excited about the change before I saw that. Used to be half of her bonus damage. But she STILL comes out of her third camp in the jungle healthier than just about anyone else, and ready to gank. So there's that.
Winged Hussars1 votesShe has the healing buff at all points in spider form, she doesn't have to activate anything for it. Furthermore, you can temporarily get scaling even better than the old healing buff after landing from rappel. It is an overall buff to her jungle sustain.
Azteryz1 votesTitle says elise buffs only talks about the one he has a problem with change the title to elise healing problem
AFK Push1 votesI think Oddone is the only one to actually make her work at this point, and even he struggles.
KabiMode1 votesI totally agree. As another Elise main, I was super excited when I saw in the rundown that she was getting a buff.
This is not a buff.
Technically, a single extra damage can get a kill, so theoretically a few people over the entire server could have gotten a kill as a result of the changes. However, when the spiderlings do stick to the correct target and don't get instantly killed, the extra damage is mediocre at best, as the only targets (barring stupidity and or ignorance) who will actually challenge you to a sustained damage contest are the bruisers and the tanks who will beat you either way.
Aside from the unsatisfactory damage, the real icing on the terrible, terrible cake is the removal of the w heal. If current Elise and old Elise had a healing contest, assuming 200 ability power, 20% CDR, level 18 and no attack speed items, old Elise would have her w on ~31% of the time and during that time would heal for 240% the amount of current Elise (360/150). While old Elise is not using her w, her healing would be zero, but current Elise would only regenerate 300 health compared to old Elise's 360. Therefore, unless you plan on not building any CDR on Elise, old Elise's healing was better both numerically and because of the fact that you do not perpetually basic attack but rather clear camps or take minions in short times.
In order to return her one of the key parts of her kit and generally make her a champion who could be played because she is actually good, I would really like Riot to roll back all of the changes from the last patch and hopefully add in a real buff.
Here are some of the things that I believe if buffed could add a reasonable (but not game-breaking) amount of power to Elise:
Give her free armor/magic resist while in spider form - In this ever annoying tank meta in which we live in, all half decent non ADC's and squishy midlaners are able to deal damage yet still tank, whereas as Elise, you must chose whether you would like to deal good damage or be able top survive a DPS carry for more than three seconds
Give her a damage multiplier - Having her spider form E multiply all her damage would allow her to build pretty tanky and still deal damage. Granted, this would result in a seemingly broken full AP Elise, however the League is already home to many champions with insane damage (e.g. full AD Shyvana) who can destroy anyone they can stick to but who's playstyle requires them to build tanky.
Change back her passive - The on-hit magic damage while in spider form is obviously part of her ultimate which has been awkwardly included in her passive. Also, Spider Swarm makes much more sense than Spider Queen.
Give her a new passive - Thinking about her passive, I remembered back when I first got Elise and thought that her passive really ought to be included in her ultimate as it only does something when she ults and its damage scales off of the rank of her ultimate. This is just a small suggestion and would not make nearly as much sense as any of the former potential buffs.
I realize how devastating the old god tier Elise was (almost like how on-hit Warwick will be with the addition of sated devourer) and I am not asking for that kind of monstrosity. All I want is to find a happy medium and give her enough power to pull her out of the 43% win rate nightmare.
dupsterdiver1 votesElise should be buffed because she is being nerved too much in my opinion
dupsterdiver1 votesAlso her q and her spiderlings damage will be nerved in s5. She is once having the strongest kits but now she is a bit weak
