Um, Shen is supposed to be a tank, right?

S0kaX·Oct 14, 2016·14 votes·2,376 views

Then why does he have so little HP at level 18? Every other tank has at least 2000 HP at level 18 or a way to increase their maximum HP.

49 Comments

RalanrOct 14, 201617 votes

It's to encourage him to build tanky. That and his shields scale with health.

Though if I'm right then this means Shen has to be somewhat ahead to be tanky. Granted he's a stronger duelist than most tanks, but the idea that a tank needs to be somewhat ahead to actually get tanky is kinda annoying since tanks are usually not going to beat duelists in lane (which every other class that goes top is better at doing).

AttackOnTeemosOct 14, 20165 votes

{quoted}

It's to encourage him to build tanky. That and his shields scale with health.

Though if I'm right then this means Shen has to be somewhat ahead to be tanky. Granted he's a stronger duelist than most tanks, but the idea that a tank needs to be somewhat ahead to actually get tanky is kinda annoying since tanks are usually not going to beat duelists in lane (which every other class that goes top is better at doing).

Tell that to garen, darius, volibear, maokai. Yorick too if you just build an iceborn on him. Anyone in this game can be tanky, Hell I built tank Soraka once and people still focused me cause they assumed I was squishy. Tank Ekko , Tank Akali, It's all into the gameplay and builds not the type they are labled as.

RalanrOct 14, 20169 votes

Maokai is the only actual tank you've listed. Darius, Garen, Volibear, and Yorick are juggernauts. They are tanky yes, but they have more damage and sustain in their kits that allow them to win duels.

Yes anyone in this game can be built tanky. I'm not denying that. But remember that you want to get your powerspike before your opponent. The game is a massive arms race, and champions that have earlier killing and better farming potential are going to get their builds going faster than others. Sometimes while also putting their opponent behind.

Sure I can fail for the first 30 minutes as a tank and then get my items to be tanky. But I've missed my powerspike by a mile and my opponent is probably vastly ahead so it doesn't feel like it means much.

Also, tanky=/=tank.

TheAceInShadesOct 15, 20161 votes

Then where is Shen? Is he supposed to be a tank? a juggernaut? a fighter? Even for fighters he's less tanky for that.

RalanrOct 15, 20161 votes

He's a tank. He's heavily encouraged to build tanky.

TheAceInShadesOct 15, 20161 votes

I have an S+ Oriana tank build on record.

JustMonika13Oct 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Tell that to garen, darius, volibear, maokai. Yorick too if you just build an iceborn on him. Anyone in this game can be tanky, Hell I built tank Soraka once and people still focused me cause they assumed I was squishy. Tank Ekko , Tank Akali, It's all into the gameplay and builds not the type they are labled as.

Garen, Darius, Volibear, and Yorick aren't tanks... they're juggernauts.

Tankiness =/= Tank.

AttackOnTeemosOct 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's to encourage him to build tanky. That and his shields scale with health.

Though if I'm right then this means Shen has to be somewhat ahead to be tanky. Granted he's a stronger duelist than most tanks, but the idea that a tank needs to be somewhat ahead to actually get tanky is kinda annoying since tanks are usually not going to beat duelists in lane (which every other class that goes top is better at doing).

He is a energy base tank, most duelist that go top lane in the first place are mana. Hell most of them blow all their mana trying to be aggressive. Shen can take is time at top lane.

RalanrOct 14, 20161 votes

Yeah, that's why Shen honestly has a better chance of getting his items since he can duel pretty well for a tank.

DeathBurstOct 14, 20163 votes

No, what you're saying isn't entirely wrong, but it's only part of the explanation and it is misleading. Of course, it encourages him to build tanky, but a lot of other Tanks, even "True Pure Tanks" still have higher base HP even though they are supposed to build health.

For Shen specifically, base HP are low because his repeated shields from his passive add up a large amount of effective HP. It's the same thing as Mordekaiser having a very low HP pool compared to all other Juggernauts because his passive shield is adding a lot of effective HP. The trick is, the raw stat looks low in isolation, but the "total tankyness" of the kit as a whole is on par with other characters in the same class.

RogueWillOct 15, 20161 votes

The problem is his AoE miss skill that takes some of his HP powerbase, if he lose that he will be allowed to be more tanky but since he can setup a dodge system his effective HP remains around the same as if you had more base HP as long as you use the skill correctly

AttackOnTeemosOct 14, 20165 votes

Because he has a skill that reduces damage, a skill that prevents damage, a skill that gives him a shield, and a global ult that saves an teammate. Also he's a ninja.

S0kaXOct 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

a skill that reduces damage

which one?

{quoted} a global ult that saves an teammate

And why does this affect his tankiness?

AttackOnTeemosOct 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

which one?

And why does this affect his tankiness?

..His Taunt...reduces damage done to him they cant cast spells taunted o.o

A Shield that allows him to soak damage.

S0kaXOct 14, 20162 votes

Pretty sure old Shen has reduced damage from taunts.

MelledoneusOct 14, 20162 votes

{quoted}

..His Taunt...reduces damage done to him they cant cast spells taunted o.o

His E no longer reduces auto attack damage. Furthermore, the moment he is taunt any on-hit effects are refreshed and hit him before his shield kicks in.

A Shield that allows him to soak damage.

A shield that sucks until late game, when he gets melted regardless?

DolasaurOct 15, 20161 votes

"a global ult that saves an teammate" ... And why does this affect his tankiness?

Shen's power budget is largely allocated towards his protector utility (ulting to save teammates, taunting to lock down enemies, evasion area). He can be 0-10-0 and still make a huge impact through R + E, which is effectively unpreventable by the enemy team due to R's global cast range. It's extremely reliable (at least the shield part). Other tanks need more time to pull off a large contribution (and need to be close by and in range to soak up damage). Shen can win a game by pressing R to save his fed carry from an assassin, even if he was split pushing at the time.

MelledoneusOct 14, 20165 votes

He will be prioritizing HP for his passive. However, his scaling armor being so low makes little sense.

RalanrOct 14, 20162 votes

Probably makes the bonus %armor pen more effective.

Which is really annoying IMO.

MelledoneusOct 14, 20161 votes

It's gotten to the point where I replaced my scaling HP runes to scaling armor to attempt to make up for it.

RalanrOct 14, 20161 votes

I've always gone resistance yellows and blues. How do scaling ones fair?

MelledoneusOct 14, 20161 votes

Pretty well, actually.

PaladinNOOct 14, 20165 votes

He IS a tank - however else could he survive this last encounter? Well, he either survived (dashed away), or the story ends when it does just to keep it at a PG13-rating for when they catch up with him...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XjhdwsacUSE/TVCEe89USgI/AAAAAAAAACk/CcABzS2kuNU/s1600/soraka_strip_07.jpg

Akali is SO HOTOct 14, 20163 votes

Because he has multiple ways to mitigate or lower damage and giving him lower base health encourages him to actually have to build tanky instead of just going Bruiser and then being able to duel everyone in the game because of his high base damages like he could before the nerfs.

RocketRelmOct 14, 20163 votes

No, he's not. These are tanks. Shen is not like these at all, his skill set is completely different from them. Fizz Fiora MasterYi Ekko Yasuo

~~Thank teemo we're mostly past that point in league history.~~

rtbf234962475Oct 14, 20161 votes

Shen Rammus Maokai Malphite Braum These are also Tanks

ThaurronOct 15, 20163 votes

He was making a joke about the tank-items-on-damage-dealers thing that's plagued this season.

BunnymapOct 14, 20162 votes

Also Shen was a victim much like Rek'Sai of getting nerfed for worlds, so they're garbage in anywhere below diamond

Although Shen isn't as bad as rek

Supreme Senpai69Oct 14, 20162 votes

Tanks have low base tanky numbers. Damage dealers have low base damage numbers. This is true in general and not for every champion. The reason is so they have to build tanky to be a tank. Otherwise they can build damage and still be tanky. I'm not sure why it only ever comes up for Shen honestly, but this has been asked a lot on the boards lol.

DunkinNoobsOct 14, 20161 votes

INNATE: After using an ability, Shen shields himself from 50 - 101 (based on level) (+ 14% bonus health) damage for 2.5 seconds. If the triggering ability successfully affected at least one champion, Ki Barrier's cooldown is reduced by 4 - 7.5 (based on level) seconds.

S0kaXOct 14, 20161 votes

Aaaaand your point is that he doesn't have too much health even for a tank because of a passive that gives him a shield?

DunkinNoobsOct 14, 20161 votes

My point is that he has the strongest self shield in the entire game (other than maybe Morde) and expecting him to have good base hp on top of that is ridiculous.

S0kaXOct 14, 20161 votes

Sion

DunkinNoobsOct 14, 20161 votes

Shen's is up far more often than Sion's is.

S0kaXOct 14, 20161 votes

But Sion's is stronger and it also deals damage if it resists.

MLDzXnRRROct 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But Sion's is stronger and it also deals damage if it resists.

Try to 1v1 Shen with Sion and then talk. BTW, even champions with way higher base hp like Alistar, Megagnar and so on get bursted lategame. Base hp means nothing vs crits, % max hp and spammable AOE nukes for thousands of damage.

S0kaXOct 14, 20161 votes