Please Reconsider Adding In Elemental Dragons.

Wolfram Oxford··3 votes·581 views

TL;DR The new dragon will ruin the game due to RNG, my post has a solution to what Riot could do to encourage objective control.

The new Dragon is broken up into five different dragons that offer different buffs. Before 35 minutes there are four different types of dragons. Each offers a unique buff that can stack. The thing I don't like about the new change is that the type of dragon that will spawn is random. Meaning it is left to RNG to decide what type of buffs are available each game. With 35 minutes if players are aggressively securing dragon they will have the opportunity to secure it about five times. The thing about dragon buffs is that they are no joke. They offer a lot of big advantages, and if not big at least they will have some kind of accumulative effect. So leaving what type of advantage teams will acquire throughout the game to RNG seems a little...dumb. You are leaving a large part of the game to RNG, in some scenarios teams could get lucky and receive the same dragon 3 times, leaving them with a huge advantage over the enemy team. I realize that you guys wanted to put an emphasis on objective control, but perhaps make it so that players can only get the current dragon buffs (1-4) pre-35 minues, and fifth dragon buff spawns post-35 minutes. This would have the same desired effect without the risk of RNG ruining any games.

10 Comments

Sona Ping2 votes

Yes, it is random. And yes,there is potential where one combination could be more powerful than another, to some extent or another.

But it is a far more healthy type of randomness than other things that exist in this game. Like Critical Strikes, for example.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqqEjwPN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-21T16:59:10.077+0000)

Yes, it is random. And yes,there is potential where one combination could be more powerful than another, to some extent or another.

But it is a far more healthy type of randomness than other things that exist in this game. Like Critical Strikes, for example.

Healthier or not, I don't think Riot should be adding in anything detrimental to their game even it is better than some other component they already have. Besides, critical strikes may be viewed unhealthy at times but it is heavily implemented into the game and is healthier than it seems. If critical strikes were removed ADCs would have no place in the meta, they simply would not be able to keep up with the damage and survivability of tanks, bruisers, and mages.

Sona Ping1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqqEjwPN,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-04-21T17:12:45.402+0000)

Healthier or not, I don't think Riot should be adding in anything detrimental to their game even it is better than some other component they already have. Besides, critical strikes may be viewed unhealthy at times but it is heavily implemented into the game and is healthier than it seems. If critical strikes were removed ADCs would have no place in the meta, they simply would not be able to keep up with the damage and survivability of tanks, bruisers, and mages.

Oh, of course. What's detrimental to the game is detrimental. You have me a bit wrong, I was not trying at making any sort of "B is worse than A, so A is fine argument". I know far better than that. What I was trying to do was offer a point of comparison.

We can agree that RNG and Randomness can be quite be bad for games if the game is for any sort of even semi-serious competition at all, right? I'll define it ad-hoc as a problem because if it is implemented in such way that it creates scenarios that can't be accounted for and can hold the greatest control of the outcome, it means that player skill is not the most important thing.

As the randomness is based on dragon spawn, there are a select few scenarios where the randomness would be influential and where a specific strength problem would need to occur and it be a problem compared to regular dragon buffs:

1st is since which Dragon spawns is random, one dragon type having a greater level of power would mean that the power of the winning team of the fight goes an uneven amount compared to the others.

2nd is the one you mentioned with stacked dragons. Where the scenario for randomness to be bad is where stacked dragons buffs bring more power than the unstacked ones like two different dragons buffs have a certain power level that is granted (3+3=6) but you could randomly get the same buff stacked and be more powerful than that (3+3=8).

I brought up Critical Strike because Critical Strike's interaction with the game is rather unhealthy in certain instances, granted limited instances, but it ends up being... let's say, alright (I guess...), because those certain instances don't have an impact that often to make more of a problem. Critical Strike is unhealthy, but it doesn't ruin the game and it appears that Elemental Dragons instances would be rarer

But Elemental Dragons aren't like Critical Strike. The dragon that is available is available for both teams (it's not uneven) and it can be controlled by other team (Dragon control).

So I do not find that it is conceptually a problem because even though it ends up being a stat, unlike Critical Strike it's a acquired as a result of mutual play, it's not tied to a champion, and it is accountable for.

Post-script:

Besides, critical strikes may be viewed unhealthy at times but it is heavily implemented into the game and is healthier than it seems. If critical strikes were removed ADCs would have no place in the meta, they simply would not be able to keep up with the damage and survivability of tanks, bruisers, and mages.

Actually, that's not true at all. In fact, It's an incredibly easy fix. Riot has even tested the solution to it already; it's in the game right now. You just change it to a standard damage multiplier instead of the variable proc damage multiplier it is now.

Flaherty1 votes

I thought each type shows up but the order it's in is random, is it really the case that one elemental type can appear several times?

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Man Lee Fisto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqqEjwPN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-20T19:36:53.533+0000)

I thought each type shows up but the order it's in is random, is it really the case that one elemental type can appear several times? ** "Both sides will always know which dragon spawns next, and multiple elemental buffs will stack on each other, making you even stronger in that aspect. In this way, you may want to think twice about giving up those two Earth Dragons—that might just cost you all of your base turrets!"** - Riot

In their Mid-Season Magic post they say that which dragon spawns is random and each buff can stack with other buffs.

Cowgirl Ed1 votes

some randomness is appreciated imo.

The Sword Saint1 votes

Three is the most time the same element will spawn in a game, and you are warned for 6 minutes ahead of time which dragon will spawn next. That's less about rng and more about adapting to circumstances. If you aren't able to contest dragons and the enemy team gets a bunch of them they deserve to have the benefits because thats how the game works. That's not any different than it is now. The only difference is that when you get some buffs that benefit a certain kind of strategy you might decide to change your own approach to the game, which is a good thing.

Wolfram Oxford2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqqEjwPN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-04-20T19:49:24.381+0000)

Three is the most time the same element will spawn in a game, and you are warned for 6 minutes ahead of time which dragon will spawn next. That's less about rng and more about adapting to circumstances. If you aren't able to contest dragons and the enemy team gets a bunch of them they deserve to have the benefits because thats how the game works. That's not any different than it is now. The only difference is that when you get some buffs that benefit a certain kind of strategy you might decide to change your own approach to the game, which is a good thing.

I am aware that you get an indication of the next dragon that will spawn, but it is still left up to RNG to decide what buffs will be available each game. This should have never have even been considered as an idea for dragon.

The Sword Saint1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqqEjwPN,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-04-20T19:54:29.819+0000)

I am aware that you get an indication of the next dragon that will spawn, but it is still left up to RNG to decide what buffs will be available each game. This should have never have even been considered as an idea for dragon.

And? All rng is not bad, it's a matter of what it add's the the game vs what it might take away. We've done the 'everyone knows exactly which dragon buff each team will get based on how many dragons into the game' thing already, it didn't work as intended. Teams either started stacking early and it the other team ignored the dragons until the fifth or both teams got a couple and noone ever got to five until the game ended. By making teams have to adapt six minutes in advance to how the next dragon might effect the game, teams can't just decide to ignore it until the fifth dragon and fighting over individual dragon buffs becomes relevant in itself instead of just slowing down or denying the enemy from stacking a fifth.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqqEjwPN,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-04-20T20:06:17.991+0000)

And? All rng is not bad, it's a matter of what it add's the the game vs what it might take away. We've done the 'everyone knows exactly which dragon buff each team will get based on how many dragons into the game' thing already, it didn't work as intended. Teams either started stacking early and it the other team ignored the dragons until the fifth or both teams got a couple and noone ever got to five until the game ended. By making teams have to adapt six minutes in advance to how the next dragon might effect the game, teams can't just decide to ignore it until the fifth dragon and fighting over individual dragon buffs becomes relevant in itself instead of just slowing down or denying the enemy from stacking a fifth.

Standardized games are the games with the most balance. Games such as Monopoly or Risk however aren't balanced because they heavily rely on chance. So in a game so competitive and trying to be taken seriously adding in RNG to an important factor makes the game more of a game of chance than one of strategy, even if fighting for dragon buffs and knowing the importance of each on involves some strategy, although a low amount.

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