Just remove the long ass silence from his q. It already speeds him up, hits like a mac truck, and silences. Its a bit much. 3 strong effects for one move? Not to mention his W that makes him insanely tanky with not much investment and reduces incoming cc by an absurd amount. If you removed the silence effect from his q he would still be unstoppable, do tons of dmg, fast as fuck, and have an execute. It would just remove one aspect of bullshit.
ZephyrDrake6 votesof all the things you want to remove you want to remove the one thing in his kit that would leave him into a troll pick... "balance" you have no idea what this word means
BeatzBoyFTW5 votesWithout the silence, literally every mobile af champions can escape all of his abilities with ease.
Jamaree4 votesWithout the silence he wouldn’t be able to get out his E and R.
Kürohyøu4 votesWhat? Yes he would. Lol the q already speeds him up on par with using Ghost ffs. And with his w that gives him free tenacity and the Q actually REMOVES slows when you cast it (thats a 4 part spell for fucks sake!!!) he can get on people and stay on them with little issue.
Jamaree2 votesWhat? Yes he would. Lol the q already speeds him up on par with using Ghost ffs. And with his w that gives him free tenacity and the Q actually REMOVES slows when you cast it (thats a 4 part spell for fucks sake!!!) he can get on people and stay on them with little issue.
You know, when you just name out a champion’s kit like that, they all sound OP.
Kürohyøu2 votesNah, just the ones where one spell has 4 separate abilities in one lmao.
Jamaree1 votesNah, just the ones where one spell has 4 separate abilities in one lmao.
Yeah, in turn, his Q and the rest of his kit is pure melee, ie a lot of good that speed boost will do against a ranged champion who knows what they are doing
Kürohyøu1 votes? Yes, a lot of good it will do. It already does a lot of good. It removes any slows they might apply and gives him ghost. The silence is just superfluous.
Jamaree2 votes? Yes, a lot of good it will do. It already does a lot of good. It removes any slows they might apply and gives him ghost. The silence is just superfluous.
It removes the current slows, the next slow you apply makes it go back to being an enchanced AA ability with no means is reliably get in.
Kürohyøu2 votesMove. Speed. 30% of it in fact. Jesus, you're dense.
Edit: How the fuck does the silence let you "reliably get in" you are making no sense. You are just saying things.
SwiftKitten882 votesIt removes the current slows, the next slow you apply makes it go back to being an enchanced AA ability with no means is reliably get in.
right becuase we all have multiple slows on our kit we can use one after another...
he has 1 spell to break a slow 1 spell to effectively reduce any hard cc to zero
and a silence to stop you from doing anything once he reaches you
unless your 
, have a 
, are a champion that has multiple low cooldowns spells like 
, 
, or u have a 3RD form of cc in your kit. then he is pretty much immune to cc
sure if his misplays and uses his spell at the wrong time u can kite him
but how much freaking cc do u think we have
Jamaree2 votesright becuase we all have multiple slows on our kit we can use one after another...
he has 1 spell to break a slow 1 spell to effectively reduce any hard cc to zero
and a silence to stop you from doing anything once he reaches you
unless your
sure if his misplays and uses his spell at the wrong time u can kite him
but how much freaking cc do u think we have
I can show you personally how easy it is if you want?
Kürohyøu1 votesTheres also the matter of his w that reduces CC by like 80% or something ridiculous like that. He is not bereft of tools to get in on people.
Paroe1 votesTheres also the matter of his w that reduces CC by like 80% or something ridiculous like that. He is not bereft of tools to get in on people.
Do... Do you realize how actually ineffective movement speed is vs mobility?
Think of it like this; you move in units per second; at 400MS. 500 with an MS boost. Instant mobility - flashes and dashes - are 500 (vaynes tumble) to 1200 range (Ezreals flash), in LESS THAN A SECOND. An MS boost, compared to actual mobility, means nothing because the champion with the mobility ALSO has at least 380MS movement speed, and when you combine 380+500... its more than 500, to the point where it will take an additional second or two - the duration of your buff - to catch them again if its possible to in the first place. Spammable MS boosts such as Udyr count as mobility though, because 600MS forever IS competitive.
Garen needs the villain mechanic removed, thats really about it as far as changes go. The mechanic is whats keeping him from being changed a little more substantially, and mass true damage is bad anyway. Just give him an execution marker.
Jamaree2 votesTheres also the matter of his w that reduces CC by like 80% or something ridiculous like that. He is not bereft of tools to get in on people.
He actually kind of is hence why he continues to not see any pro play even though he is viable at high elo for the first time since ever as anything more then a niche pick or a gimmick.
SwiftKitten882 votes
I can show you personally how easy it is if you want?
can build
kayle... has ulti and is a 
shredder
the next three have movespeed boosts CC and are ranged to kite him
and vlad turns into a puddle
not saying garen donest have champs that can deal with him
and u keep saying "this top lane champion beats garen"
IM NOT TOP LANE
i have to deal with the guy AFTER he leaves top lane
if your NOT a top laner, and your not or 
or a champion that builds
your probaly not killing a 
like... ever.. in a 1v1
becuase he has tools to deal with everything. and has no mana costs to work around.
very very mages have more than 1 form of CC
if it is a slow he can use Q.. if its a hard CC he can use W
you can creep block him becuase of his E building armor also donest stop him becuase of his E and his ulti which does magic or true
if he EVER closes the distance you only have auto attack until your dead which means any mage he reaches is dead
he also has his Q to help reach you
bruisers are OP at the moment, and 
are the worst of them right now
garen becuase he double dips in 
and can deal magic and true damage
becuase.. and dodge, and crazy intate tankyness. being nigh unkillbale and being able to 1v5 and kill nay class in the game, like the ADC's of seasons 6 and 7
and becuase.. why the fuck can she dash so much have a long range stun, and a % damage reduction and a blind. (or sorry "disarm" which is bacially just a blind somone can save u with 
with. seroiuly wtf else is the difference i want to know.
Jamaree2 votes
and vlad turns into a puddle
not saying garen donest have champs that can deal with him
and u keep saying "this top lane champion beats garen"
IM NOT TOP LANE
i have to deal with the guy AFTER he leaves top lane
if your NOT a top laner, and your not
or a champion that builds
your probaly not killing a
like... ever.. in a 1v1
becuase he has tools to deal with everything. and has no mana costs to work around.
very very mages have more than 1 form of CC
if it is a slow he can use Q.. if its a hard CC he can use W
you can creep block him becuase of his E building armor also donest stop him becuase of his E and his ulti which does magic or true
if he EVER closes the distance you only have auto attack until your dead which means any mage he reaches is dead
he also has his Q to help reach you
bruisers are OP at the moment, and
garen becuase he double dips in
That champions aren’t exclusively balanced around the strong match ups they have but you have to check and balance them with their weaknesses to see why they have so many strengths.
Against non mobile mages, yeah, Garen rekts them, his entire kit focuses around it so much so that even his lore does as well seeing as Demacia has a hate boner for magic.
You don’t 1vs1 bruisers in the conventional sense, you never have, you don’t duel them outright because their kits were made from the ground up to close range melee duel, so all of them can’t do shit all unless they are close, so ranged damage dumpsters them.
Sure, some have means to get in better then others, but Garen gets so many tools to get in, his slow cleanse and his cc reduction because he is a close range purely melee champion who has to wade through five champions worth of cc and damage to actually get to important targets, mind you, unlike Irelia and Jax who can dash to their target, he just walks then runs, and that is it. There is no special interactions between minions you have to watch out for, you don’t have to be weary of walls against him, you don’t have to expect him to be suddenly on you, you have more time to deal with Garen then you do just about every other melee champion in the game and even when he gets on you, his cc is weak.
A silence in one of the weakest cc in the game and is far more situational to deal with then just about every other type.
SwiftKitten881 votesA silence in one of the weakest cc in the game and is far more situational to deal with then just about every other type.
...lol umm no, its is one of the strongest.
its effectively a stun vs any AP user in the game
which is about half the champions.
and it is stronger than blind, becuase every champ has abilties, they can use, even while blinded or they can 
away
in a root all u am stoped from doing is moving, i can still attack back and use spells
a silence prevents me from doing ANYTHING but autoing and moving.. this includes all damage abilities, all escape abilities/ dashes, all summoners except 
(most notably )
i cant activate items such as 
or 
,
unless your facing a melee bruiser in range of you, there really isn't jack shit u can do if u are silenced
Jamaree2 votes...lol umm no, its is one of the strongest.
its effectively a stun vs any AP user in the game
which is about half the champions.
and it is stronger than blind, becuase every champ has abilties, they can use, even while blinded or they can
in a root all u am stoped from doing is moving, i can still attack back and use spells
a silence prevents me from doing ANYTHING but autoing and moving.. this includes all damage abilities, all escape abilities/ dashes, all summoners except
i cant activate items such as
unless your facing a melee bruiser in range of you, there really isn't jack shit u can do if u are silenced
It is stronger then a blind sure, but weaker then every other kind of cc because you can still move. Stun, suppress, snare, knock up, and root are all more powerful as they stop any chance of you escaping the rest of his damage whereas silence allows you to just keep walking away and get out of the danger
SwiftKitten881 votesIt is stronger then a blind sure, but weaker then every other kind of cc because you can still move. Stun, suppress, snare, knock up, and root are all more powerful as they stop any chance of you escaping the rest of his damage whereas silence allows you to just keep walking away and get out of the danger
stun suppress and knockup are obviously stronger snare and root are the same and is weaker than silence becuase it only restrict movement and movement abilties.
all other abilities can still be used, provided point and click abilities have a target in range VERY few champion have ONLY melee abilties, that lose the ability to do their entire kit, were as nearly half the champion in the game are AP.
98% if champion that get sielence by garen are DEAD if are AP
if garen gets rooted, all he does is try again in a few second and tries to dodge the skillshot better
Jamaree2 votesstun suppress and knockup are obviously stronger snare and root are the same and is weaker than silence becuase it only restrict movement and movement abilties.
Having movement is stronger then being able to cast abilities.
all other abilities can still be used, provided point and click abilities have a target in range VERY few champion have ONLY melee abilties, that lose the ability to do their entire kit, were as nearly half the champion in the game are AP.
I mean technically Garen loses the ability to use nearly his entire kit if he is rooted or snared technically.
98% if champion that get sielence by garen are DEAD if are AP
If you get getting silenced by Garen in the first place, you are fucking up.
if garen gets rooted, all he does is try again in a few second and tries to dodge the skillshot better
While not being able to use most of his kit because he is full melee, a root on Garen is as strong as a silence on most AP champions.
Stephenizgod3 votesThis would make him useless though, the Silence is how he can stay relevant in Top lane so he isn't beat to death for free by champions like Riven.
They need to make it so you max E over Q again, he became a problem when maxing his Q was more valuable. He is balanced around his E and maximizing its damage, not his Q.
Kürohyøu2 votesI was just looking at his kit though, every spell he has is multi-faceted. His q does extra damage, removes slows, gives him a 30% movespeed buff, and silences for 1.5 seconds. His w has a passive and a HUGE active, and his e shreds armor. Hes already insane in lane. There is NO reason for kits to be this packed with effects. Its insane.
CoopA8262 votesIf you list everything his kit includes like this you can make every champion sound op. Garen simply is not overpowered in any kind of way and removing his silence is the worst suggestion I've heard so far.
Look at Riven. Her Q activates 3 times, she can dash 3 times and it has a knock up while also activating her passive AA steroid three times. As if this isn't enough she has a non skillshot stun, a low cd shield+a 4thdash scaling off of AD and her ult amplifies every aspect of her kit AND offers her a ranged aoe burst ... nerf Riven
Stephenizgod3 votesYou can list any champions abilities and it will look overloaded and OP... on paper...
Im going to get downvoted because people think "Remove from the game" = balance. But there is nothing overloaded or OP in Garen's kit.
I said it in my original comment but you clearly ignored it, Garen was not balanced around maxing his Q first. It has all of that because it was intended to be his second or even third ability maxed out. His E is his intended damage, he is balanced around maxing it first. People have learned though that maxing Q first is better as it helps cover a lot of his very obvious weaknesses.
All they need to do is increase the CD of his Q significantly so he actually needs to think before he uses it. They may also want to buff his E, yea i know buffing Garen sounds scary, but his E is garbage.
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesHe'd need something to compensate for it, but it'd go a long way towards fixing a lot of problems.
Silences should not be long-term and point and click. Raka's E is fine because you can just walk out of the silence. Garen's Q or Cho's W is not because it's just silencing you for the entire duration and can't be missed.
Kürohyøu2 votesImo hes already overcompensated on his whole kit. Its crazy if you count how many effects just 1 spell gives him. Not to mention when he uses them in tandem. I dont know when kits started getting this egregiously packed but they are throwing everything on people these days.
CoopA8261 votesWe have Zoes, Yasuos and Akalis terrorizing the rift and here you are complaining about Garen's kit being too strong. I actually cannot believe it.
If you're anything about gold5 I will stop playing this game instantly
Apocalypsic3 votesGaren being only strong in low elo is actually such an outdated incorrect mentality.
He’s destroying diamond+ right now. Nowadays you legit hear high elo streamers saying “Yeah we have Garen, Gg we win.”
EDIT: Downvote me all you want but I'll just leave this here.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesRemember when you guys said Garen sucks because he's kitable af since he doesn't have any dash/blink mobility?
What happened to that?
Apocalypsic1 votesRemember when you guys said Garen sucks because he's kitable af since he doesn't have any dash/blink mobility?
What happened to that?
I never said anything of the like. But I can say right now he's too strong simply just because Riot overbuffed the shit out of his kit.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hi Im a Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VoHx5lkd,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-09T05:55:55.618+0000)
I never said anything of the like. But I can say right now he's too strong simply just because Riot overbuffed the shit out of his kit.
I'm saying that it is one of the most used comments in counterplaying against Garen, which also helps the fact why he's never played in proplays.
Overbuffed? His last damaging buff was his Q which then got nerfed back just recently, and his W got a tad higher resistance. That's it.
Moody P2 votesthe meta changed and it's almost entirely assassins, fighters and short range ADCs with no mages and hardly any tanks
Kürohyøu1 votesIm gonna add you so when i get back to plat I can watch you never log into the game again. Though i imagine youll still troll and say nonsense in the threads. Well, IF you're a man of your word.
Moody P7 votesbecause garen's Q isn't long range or instant like soraka's. comparison doesn't hold up in the least
DearPear2 votesThe amount of git guds that this thread deserves is pretty high.
SociaI Justice2 votesITT: a silver player that lost to garen is trying to act like removing the champion from the game is the same as balancing him.
Moody P1 voteswhat's your rank jw
Only After 2301 votesPlays Morgana and Zyra with long-range hard CC
Complains about Garen's only CC -> Silence
Adding both those facts together and you get a pretty funny result about the OP.
Q -> An Auto Attack W -> Extra Armor via Minion Kills & Damage Reduction Active E -> Armor Reduction Spin R -> An Execute
You can bitch about the damage and silence and movement speed, but at the end of the day its literally all for one auto attack.
You have shit like Zoe who has movement speed, auto-targeting damage, and bonus Summoner/item actives on W (Not to mention the Auto attack passive and the 0.25s cooldown)... And you choose to bitch about a melee champion's only source of CC that can allow him to be able to get the rest his kit off in a fight.
Do you even hear the shit coming out of your mouth?
Kürohyøu1 votesWhy does what i play matter? Nice ad hominem. But anyhow: Q -> movespeed buff and enhanced auto attack that sheds slows W -> Extra resistances & Damage Reduction Active WITH EXTRA TENACITY. E -> Does respectable dmg whilst building mostly tank or does HUGE dmg while still being tanky due to w passive and active WHILE shredding armor R -> a magic damage execute on a physical damage bruiser so if you build armor to mitigate his dmg (which 1/4th of gets shredded) his r will still do full dmg.
I can bitch about whatever I feel is unabalanced. I never said zoe was balanced. This is just one thread about something that would make garen not quite as oppressive. You're welcome to disagree, but yeah, I do "hear the shit coming out of my (head)".
Jamaree1 votesWhy does what i play matter? Nice ad hominem. But anyhow: Q -> movespeed buff and enhanced auto attack that sheds slows W -> Extra resistances & Damage Reduction Active WITH EXTRA TENACITY. E -> Does respectable dmg whilst building mostly tank or does HUGE dmg while still being tanky due to w passive and active WHILE shredding armor R -> a magic damage execute on a physical damage bruiser so if you build armor to mitigate his dmg (which 1/4th of gets shredded) his r will still do full dmg.
Again, when you just list out a champion’s kit, they all sound OP.
I can bitch about whatever I feel is unabalanced. I never said zoe was balanced. This is just one thread about something that would make garen not quite as oppressive. You're welcome to disagree, but yeah, I do "hear the shit coming out of my (head)".
Would also make him really weak.