The worst thing about ADCs is how they are never irrelevant, and demand attention no matter what.

TheThundersRoar·Apr 1, 2016·63 votes·2,936 views

Even when the enemy team has a fed-to-shit Bruiser/Tank/Assassin/Mage, someone still has to focus the relatively un-fed ADC in addition, because they scale so damn well they are never irrelevant.

Ziggs is 13/2/8 AoE-wrecking your team? Welp, still have to focus 7/8/2 Tristana or force her out before she murders everyone.

Talon is 10/0/7 wiping your carry? Sorry, one person peel him, we gotta dive 5/5/3 Ezreal.

Fiora is 8/4/10 melting the backline? Kite harder, we have to burst 3/1/2 Lucian or we lose.

Mundo is 5/1/12 all up in everybody's face? Tough luck, 9/13/4 Caityn has to die or we all do.

79 Comments

The Bíg TicketApr 1, 201635 votes

The worst thing about adcs is their playerbase who despite being the center of the game for 5 straight seasons still thinks adcs are weak and demand nerfs for any champs that can kill them.

Sniper 0Apr 1, 201619 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bíg Ticket,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-01T01:53:15.113+0000)

The worst thing about adcs is their playerbase who despite being the center of the game for 5 straight seasons still thinks adcs are weak and demand nerfs for any champs that can kill them.

Right? They're pretty much the center of the meta right now. Even during the "tank meta" they were the center of the meta... lol Every meta is an adc meta, you just have small shifts in directions in which case the name get shifted. You know, because putting the attention on something else protects rito's precious adc's... z.z

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

The Bíg TicketApr 1, 201621 votes

Game has evolved around adcs since Season 1 Worlds where the european support + carry bot lane beat out everything else. You don't need a mage on your team every game, you don't need an assassin, you don't need a bruiser, you don't need a tank...the only role that you absolutely need every game is an ADC.

MEMEME670Apr 1, 20162 votes

And a support...

Ayame IsakiApr 1, 20161 votes

Last night I faced a team with a Lucian "Support" (he even bought a gold item) and Kindred ADC.

yoniameApr 2, 20162 votes

Caitlyn Ashe Jhin Kindred can all go both supp and adc. Sometimes when with premades we go pick 2 adc and 2 item 3302 , usually goes pretty welll.

GawnMowerApr 2, 20161 votes

im going to disagree with you right there, i wouldn't say you need an adc every-game, ive played all full tank (heavy engage) comps before and they really stomp.

Sion Malphite Nautilus Alistar Volibear

The Bíg TicketApr 2, 20161 votes

Any balanced teamcomp with an adc beats this one unless it is a low elo game where no one knows what they are doing. YOu will have losing matchups in all lanes, you can't siege any lane, you can't answer splitpush.

DengedenApr 2, 20161 votes

Go bot lane, fall behind, have fun being useless.

The Bíg TicketApr 2, 20161 votes

troll post.

DengedenApr 2, 20161 votes

Which one? The OP or what I responded to?

The Bíg TicketApr 2, 20161 votes

Your post.

DengedenApr 3, 20161 votes

That's strange, considering mine's easily verifiable.

The Bíg TicketApr 3, 20161 votes

ADCs are not useless when they fall behind...you have to be trolling if you are saying stuff like that. Renekton is useless when he falls behind, Pantheon is useless when he falls behind, Zed is useless when he falls behind.

An adc gets his 2nd item and is automatically relevant.

DengedenApr 3, 20161 votes

You're squishy and outdamaged by the other ADC, what are you on about?

I could just as easily say that Panth and Rene can still stun/burst carries and stay useful because of it.

The Bíg TicketApr 3, 20161 votes

You could say that but it wouldn't be true rofl.

Panth or Renekton cant burst shit when they are behind.

DengedenApr 4, 20161 votes

You're telling me that there's a situation where Panth and Ren can't burst squishies? Rofl.

The Bíg TicketApr 4, 20161 votes

Yes, their damage scales with levels and items...if they fall behind they can't do shit lol. What game are you playing rofl?

DengedenApr 4, 20161 votes

The one where squishies get solo'd by Thresh or Tahm support if they blew their kit on someone else just then.

Do I seriously have to show you the numbers that prove a Renekton with a Tiamat and a Pantheon with a completed armor pen item can solo a mage/adc if they land their QWE?

The Bíg TicketApr 4, 20161 votes

Yeah please show me how a Pantheon and Renekton who are behind solo anyone that is not a support. I highly doubt you ever played any of these champs.

DengedenApr 4, 20161 votes

You're right, all I have is experience to go on and that experience tells me that any bruiser will always remain a threat to the ADC no matter how behind they are.

I really got to crunch the numbers to prove that?

The Bíg TicketApr 4, 20161 votes

Lmao...yeah thats why you see 5 adcs every game but 1 bruiser at most, often 0.

Go ahead and "prove" it.

SulghunterApr 1, 201610 votes

There is one variable that you are failing to factor in. CREEP SCORE.

The Ziggs, Talon, Fiora, and Mundo are certainly fed from kills, but the adcs may easily be just as fed from farming.

If a kill clocks in at roughly 300 gold most of the time, then it takes about 15-18 creeps to make MORE gold than one kill. A good adc getting over a hundred CS by mid game is a regular thing. By a hundred CS, that gold is more than enough to finish the first item, and to start building the second. This is on top of what ever kills and assissts the adcs get.

AbyssphereApr 1, 201614 votes

{quoted}

There is one variable that you are failing to factor in. CREEP SCORE.

The Ziggs, Talon, Fiora, and Mundo are certainly fed from kills, but the adcs may easily be just as fed from farming.

If a kill clocks in at roughly 300 gold most of the time, then it takes about 15-18 creeps to make MORE gold than one kill. A good adc getting over a hundred CS by mid game is a regular thing. By a hundred CS, that gold is more than enough to finish the first item, and to start building the second. This is on top of what ever kills and assissts the adcs get.

The point of the thread is to say that even if an ADC is doing badly and someone else is doing very well, you can't ignore the ADC. The examples in the OP are given to illustrate that using obviously good/bad KDAs. You have to assume that in the scenarios given, the ADC doesn't have double the fed champion's CS, because then they are doing well and that's not what the OP is talking about.

Don't overthink stuff. It is just "Even when Talon is doing well and Lucian's doing bad, you have to focus Lucian".

YCitizenSnipsYApr 2, 20161 votes

Which is pretty much out right false, and an incredibility terrible thread being up voted by the anti adc circle jerk.

In any of these scenarios you are not living long enough for the ADC to matter. You aren't killing one of those champions only to have the enemy adc clean up afterwards. It doesn't matter what the adc is doing, he can sit in the corner and beat off, becasue they team will win as long as the fed player is their.

I mean seriously, you actually think in any of these scenarios that it would matter weather or not they focus the ADC or the fed opponent. Your not killing those fed opponents in the first place, so what does it matter if you get another kill on the obviously terrbile adc's in these examples. They aren't the ones winning the fights.

AckelopeApr 1, 20167 votes

maybe it's that i just suck complete ass at this game, but when i go negative in lane as adc, i usually don't do that much damage until much further into the game than i'd normally be, because my items are delayed... maybe i just fucking suck so bad i'm far below the level of everyone else, but if i'm behind, i usually lose or have no part in carrying my team, i don't really see the examples mentioned here happen often. sure, my damage is only delayed, but that's how it works with everyone, and unless you completely crush a game, the enemy team usually has a chance to bounce back once (if) they complete a few items.

SpoofghoulApr 1, 20167 votes

just imagine you are behind everyone has boots and 3 completed items you only have 1½ nad just backed to get some extra so you have 1 full item and 2 half items

item 3006 item 3031 item 3086 item 3035 even though you are lagging behind you still murder everyhting by critting them down if left unchecked

the multiplicative scaling on the items makes your dps grow exponentially so even if you fall behind your dps will be bigger then anyone elses

the whole reason why your damage isnt so high is because you either died alot at the start of fights and thats why you got behind or you get zoned pretty hard meaning you are demanding alot of attention from the opposing team.

You most definitely have seen the examples but probably did not recognize them for what they are.

ABlueQuakerApr 1, 20167 votes

You're acting like this is some big revelation that you've discovered. What's your end-game? What do you want? AD Carries have and will always be a core role in any META the game ever goes through. They're the only truly Sustained Ranged DPS in the game. Mages are gated by cooldowns, everything else is Melee or a Tank/Support.

If anything, METAs change around AD Carries because ultimately every team wants their AD Carry to succeed as an AD Carry.

Critmaster GarenApr 1, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Blue Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-04-01T02:35:36.201+0000)

They're the only truly Sustained Ranged DPS in the game.

not true. there are bruisers, and melee adc, and apc (ryze, cassiopeia, azir).

marksmen arent the only class of champions that can provide sustained damage. however for some reason theyre the only mandatory.

ABlueQuakerApr 1, 20163 votes

Sustained Ranged DPS.

Ya know, champions who can safely chip away at turrets which is the fundamental objective of the game.

WoonStruckApr 1, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Blue Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-04-01T02:45:17.992+0000)

Ya know, champions who can safely chip away at turrets which is the fundamental objective of the game.

Except in other MOBAs, melee carries are often more effective and have the excess of mobility. In this game, ranged ADCs have all the mobility on top of having safety and more absurd steroids.

Range is practically required in this game for damage-dealers because you don't need defensive items then, meanwhile most of the melees are unviable unless completely broken or are able to go with bruiser items. Range is one of the most powerful steroids there are in this game.

For example: Windrunner in DotA is not a DPS carry. She is a support. Yet, in this game, she would have been a hard carry and been completely broken.

The way attack damage is calculated in this game is flawed in concept. There needs to be lower AP values in the game with higher ratios, and auto attacks receive a portion of your AP, melee AP scaling slightly higher than range. Its the only way to make it so AP and AD champions are equally viable.

It would require an overhaul of base damages, ratios, range, etc of every champ, but its the only way to make it so ranged ADCs are not mandatory over even DPS mages or melee ADCs. Best part is how it would put Azir in a game where he could finally be properly balanced.

Woook3rApr 1, 20162 votes

Logged in to upvote. The only strong adc's are the ones with both moility and burst and sustained dmg. No one is complaining about ashe and draven. Its luc. And Corkie. And Graves. And Quin. All of them have burst and mobility and sustained dmg, corkie even has poke. Oh yea. Kindred too. Super mobile. Kalista as well.

I dont agree with your comments about ap ratios. I would say that mobility and rnge and dps and burst shouldnt be combined in one champion because a champion like that is never bad. Ppl say adc is always in meta, but really its just mobile adc's that are always in meta.

WoonStruckApr 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Logged in to upvote. The only strong adc's are the ones with both moility and burst and sustained dmg. No one is complaining about ashe and draven. Its luc. And Corkie. And Graves. And Quin. All of them have burst and mobility and sustained dmg, corkie even has poke. Oh yea. Kindred too. Super mobile. Kalista as well.

I dont agree with your comments about ap ratios. I would say that mobility and rnge and dps and burst shouldnt be combined in one champion because a champion like that is never bad. Ppl say adc is always in meta, but really its just mobile adc's that are always in meta.

There's nothing wrong with having a champion that is 'never bad' but other champions should outclass them at specific things. For example, Kalista's burst and late game DPS are pretty bad, but she still remains strong at kiting and clean-up. Compare this to Lucian who can almost do the same thing, as far as kiting, but has great burst, DPS, mobility, clean-up, etc... Lucian in general is just too strong because he's better than the majority of ADCs at everything. Just like how Graves has great utility (W), burst (lol), DPS, tankiness, and as a result very high in-combat sustain, as well as clean-up ability, and some mobility, wave-clear, turret erasing, and additional crit scaling on his already broken passive, which makes him better than a lot of champs at a lot of things. Those cases are not okay.

Cases like Irelia or Ahri, where they are 'never bad' but don't really excel at any one specific thing, are, in comparison, an alright thing for the game.

And you have to keep in mind that, if this were all pulled off successfully, attack speed and kit (auto-attack modifiers in general) would be a MUCH larger factor in DPS than AD or AP. Base attack speed in general would be lower, attack speed scaling on items a bit higher, and the ability to push outside of auto-attacks, especially without expending notable resources, greatly diminished.

No other MOBA allows one to push, especially early game, as hard as this game does. League champions start with extremely high base stats in comparison to minions. If this were fixed in line with these changes, last hitting wouldn't even become harder as a result of all these changes. Best part? CSing ability stays relatively similar among classes through-out the game.

Reaper ReviewApr 1, 20167 votes

ADCs happen to be the best class for destroying structures, which is the core objective of the game. They then transition into dealing heavy damage quickly to enemy champions, another core objective of the game.

ADCs are always meta because the things their class is designed to do well are crucial to winning the game at large.

Critmaster GarenApr 1, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-04-01T02:40:04.715+0000)

ADCs happen to be the best class for destroying structures, which is the core objective of the game. They then transition into dealing heavy damage quickly to enemy champions, another core objective of the game.

ADCs are always meta because the things their class is designed to do well are crucial to winning the game at large.

but if theyre so crucial to taking objectives, why are they at the same time the largest source of champion damage? there is really no reason for that.

at the end of season 5, marksmen usually tied with mages, juggs, and melee adc like yasuo and fiora in champion damage. there is no reason they had to be buffed to do even more.

RalanrApr 2, 20161 votes

It's because they become the safest form of damage and it gets applied to everything. I notice this best when I'm trying to take dragon or destroy a super minion as a tank, I can only keep its attention while I slowly cut it down. High damage champs bring them down much faster.

If there were other ways to harm towers beyond auto attacking them (I know HoTS is a different game, but I do like how towers can be damaged by any damage ability) then ADC's might be less prevalent, which could make them a more strategic choice than a needed one.

YumaS2AstralApr 1, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-04-01T02:40:04.715+0000)

ADCs happen to be the best class for destroying structures, which is the core objective of the game. They then transition into dealing heavy damage quickly to enemy champions, another core objective of the game.

ADCs are always meta because the things their class is designed to do well are crucial to winning the game at large.

Not only that, but they provide ranged DPS, but in a way that it is not gated by cooldowns or resources, as even if an ADC goes OOM he can still deal damage just by auto-attacking. That's why they are favored so heavily and why generally it is not considered to be viable to run a DPS mage like Azir.

Melee "ADCs" like Yasuo or Tryndamere could also do that, but ranged ADCs have the safety advantage, also they have a better chance of surviving the early game against opposing ranged ADC + support.

ProfDrDeathApr 1, 20163 votes

Plus, range being safety that is there from level 1 and does (usually) not scale means that ranged ADCs are the least affected by sharing XP.

Athenes LuluApr 2, 20161 votes

The survival isn't just early game, but later game as well.

If the team's primary damage against objectives is melee, and if he's easily focused... there goes the team's objective-taking power. Ranged has less of that kind of risk, and as a tradeoff they have subpar survival tools.

YumaS2AstralApr 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=000500010001,timestamp=2016-04-02T07:49:16.470+0000)

The survival isn't just early game, but later game as well.

If the team's primary damage against objectives is melee, and if he's easily focused... there goes the team's objective-taking power. Ranged has less of that kind of risk, and as a tradeoff they have subpar survival tools.

That's why when ranged ADCs have self survival tools, be it natural (Lucian, Vayne) or artificial (Sterak's Gage, Maw of Malmortius) they are broken

I hate my ADCApr 2, 20161 votes

Nasus ? Heimerdinger ? Tryndamere ? Udyr ?

yoniameApr 2, 20161 votes

counter meta pics, but not that viable if enemy team knows how to play vs them.

RookPusherApr 1, 20166 votes

As a support main, I approve this message. They're the worst. Nurse them out of irrelevance and they're the most arrogant clowns. They'd be nothing without us but you won't hear them say it.

SladeXDApr 1, 20163 votes

As an AD Carry main, I actually want them to be nerfed. Some are meant to only be relevant in certain stages of the game, and that's where your pick choice should come in is which stage of the game you want to play around, as well as the enemy team comp. Mobile ADC's are the ones I want nerfed the most. If it gets to a point where you can't kill them ONLY due to their sheer amount of mobility, there's something wrong. Prime examples AKA the most OP in the role right now, Corki Ezreal Lucian . Otherwise, those that are decently well-balanced stat-wise should have more relevancy throughout the game than those that just win by being hard to catch. I want to be able to play Ashe Jinx MissFortune Varus Twitch without the chance of being completely pub stomped by the aforementioned mobile carries. Some of these immobile marksman are usually counterpicks to the mobile ones, but with the sheer power curve they have, it's hard to play against them. Also the itemization is way too in favor of them. All the items that are usually meant to them are extremely overloaded with stats, as well as tank items being WAY too efficient on them. I remember back in the day that your options for defense were things like Banshee's so you didn't get blown up by the enemy LeBlanc or Ahri. Now all the items you build give the stats that you would normally build on a marksman without having to sacrifice damage to save your life and remain relevant in a fight. Biggest problems here are Sterak's, Maw, and Mercurial. Sterak's was meant to be an item for your AD tanks/bruisers so you could have the survivability needed by the role, as well as have a little extra base damage. Maw was another counter-mage AD item so you could be lucky to make it out of a fight alive, but it usually was in your build anyway before all these double lifesteal and double attack speed builds come into meta. And Mercurial DID NOT need the extra lifesteal added onto it as well as having the Cleanse from QSS. It needs a serious nerf or remove the damn lifesteal.

In short ADC's are overpowered in all stages of the game, and their itemization is ridiculous. Rito pls.

Slamurai JackApr 1, 20162 votes

ADC's are necessitated by how strong defensive itemization is in this game. If you wanted adcs to be less relevant, you'd need to nerf defensive stats across the boards because adcs are pretty much the only class with the DPS to deal with the likes of Malphite, Rammus, Maokai, and Mundo.

AlwaysByMySideApr 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-04-01T21:27:31.542+0000)

ADC's are necessitated by how strong defensive itemization is in this game. If you wanted adcs to be less relevant, you'd need to nerf defensive stats across the boards because adcs are pretty much the only class with the DPS to deal with the likes of Malphite, Rammus, Maokai, and Mundo.

It's true, but don't let the tank and bruiser mains hear that. God forbid something be capable of killing them late game.

YumaS2AstralApr 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2016-04-01T23:03:55.929+0000)

It's true, but don't let the tank and bruiser mains hear that. God forbid something be capable of killing them late game.

ADCs should only be able to kill tanks late game by kiting them. Otherwise a tank should be able to kill an ADC in a 1x1 situation.

MatezoideApr 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmrPBRx6,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-04-01T21:27:31.542+0000)

ADC's are necessitated by how strong defensive itemization is in this game. If you wanted adcs to be less relevant, you'd need to nerf defensive stats across the boards because adcs are pretty much the only class with the DPS to deal with the likes of Malphite, Rammus, Maokai, and Mundo.

A DPS class will always be necessary in this genre. ADCs being mandatory is not an issue.

The problem is that RANGED ADCs are mandatory. There are literally no drawnbacks to being ranged.

JavelinJoeApr 1, 20161 votes

Jinx and Jhin are the complete opposite of what you have just described. If either of those two lose lane (and i mean lose, not go even), they have a VERY hard time recovering in this current meta.

YumaS2AstralApr 1, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Jinx and Jhin are the complete opposite of what you have just described. If either of those two lose lane (and i mean lose, not go even), they have a VERY hard time recovering in this current meta.

At same time if they manage to recover, it is incredibly difficult to stop them.