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Remove Glitterlance's Damage Reduction and replace it with 70% Reduced Damage to Minions

EvilUnicornLord··72 votes·3,164 views

######EDIT: I intended to write title as "Remove Glitterlance's Damage Reduction and replace it with 70% damage to minions". But now it's too late to change it.

In Patch 6.13, Lulu had the following adjustments to Glitterlance:

Q - Glitterlance NEW LESS LANCE MORE GLITTER: Damage now falls to 70% against targets hit beyond the first.

The intention of this nerf was to redirect Lulu more towards her intended role as a support without damaging it and giving her midlane role some counterplay. While this might have worked, it has decreased her poking capability because the smart ADC will stand behind their minions and thus reduce damage taken. Her main source of damage suddenly deals 30% less damage and it has been difficult for Lulu to keep up with other support mages.

As the title states, it would be a far better idea to adjust her Glitterlance to deal 70% damage to minions. Thus keeping the nerf to her solo lane, but to deal full damage against champions and making her pokes worthwhile.

112 Comments

Athenes Lulu7 votes

For the sake of easier math, (possibly) coding, and understanding, I'm surprised on why don't Riot take this path. Even advocated for it long ago myself.

But better do extra work by saying "less multi-target damage!!!!!!"

######And the current changes actually screw up my ADCs' wave management all the time.

Calabok6 votes

how about I say it a different way?

she has enough utility to compensate for any "poke" you think she needs so really she needs no changes.

some people just want their senpai champ to be OP.

EvilUnicornLord19 votes

This has nothing to do with her being "so kawaii and my dream waifu because Star Guardians 4 lyfe" I don't even have, nor want Lulu's Star Guardian skin, the ones I have for her are enough as it is.

The issue is that she's currently eating a 45% winrate because she has no poke. The alternative to that is place Pix on a minion for one Glitterlance, thus two abilities on cooldown, more mana spent, and just one poke that may or may not have even hit them.

And please hit "reply" rather than making a new comment every time, you're making this place a mess.

Verdade2 votes

Stop playing Lulu like poke support then? She's not one and she never will be. She has tons of utility and skirmish potential, people just got used to play her as poke/burst champion instead of utility-centred one.

1000angrybees3 votes

I think you mean do less damage to minions by less of a percentage. Like 30% less, following the logic of the 70% before. 70% is a ridiculous sounding nerf lol

EvilUnicornLord2 votes

That's what I meant, I realized I had misworded the title after I had posted it. I added the edit for clarity just now.

Niyumi3 votes

I don't understand why we need to force champs into particular roles. I enjoy playing Lulu mid, why is that so bad? I have decent damage and a ton of utility, rather than just being straight up damage. But I guess that's not allowed.

EvilUnicornLord3 votes

Because the enemy midlaner also stands behind minions and the damage is reduced there as well. As of such, people have been taking her the only place her lane opponent won't stand behind minions for the most part: top lane.

All the fighters and tanks of top lane, as if they didn't already have Graves and Ryze to deal with in the first place, now they have one with a polymorph. And while Midlane Lulu will still be viable with these changes (it will actually be better), it'll be a bit more like Mid Janna: You actually have some counterplay to it.

Romtheguy1 votes

Mid Janna

Pls tell me your secrets

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Deathfire. Pure AP. Your W hits like a truck. Ungankable with her pure speed and disengage. But the real secret?

No minion block.

Calabok3 votes

we don't want Lulu mid. She needs to stay support.

EvilUnicornLord15 votes

Then you should like this idea because Lulu's mid and support game are so bad right now that she's being taken top just to harass the fighters for not being ranged.

Cowseed5 votes

This ^ I do this. : )

Aptest4 votes

im ok with mid lulu for the simple reason that she shits on yasuo.

EvilUnicornLord4 votes

The current Glitterlance treats minions like a second windwall. As if you didn't have that and his shield to go through already...

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

We want to nerf her solo lane, not completely gut it. I dunno, a whole 70% reduction to minions really means that Lulu can't solo lane. Come late game she can't waveclear.

ChaddyFantome7 votes

{quoted}

We want to nerf her solo lane, not completely gut it. I dunno, a whole 70% reduction to minions really means that Lulu can't solo lane. Come late game she can't waveclear.

She already can't clear, lol. I for one am fine with this change.

EvilUnicornLord3 votes

You misread the changes. It doesn't deal 70% reduced damage to targets beyond the first, it deals 70% damage to targets beyond the first.

Thus, it has a 30% damage reduction to targets beyond the first, not 70%.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Oh, I get it now, thanks.

EvilUnicornLord2 votes

No problem.

Calabok2 votes

No. Lulu at bottom lane is just fine.

EvilUnicornLord6 votes

That's what I'm trying to encourage. Her poke is very poor right now so Zilean, Janna, and other support-mages are forcing her into other positions.

Make support easier for her = Lulu actually goes support

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

its meh, but I don't want her poke buffed so no thank you, consider she has more defensive/support spells, I think calling her a poke mage isn't the right word for her.

EvilUnicornLord6 votes

That's how she's supposed to be played. High-power healing supports are the ones that sit back and sustain their ADC and even they go for pokes. Lulu's very similar to Zilean in the fact that she ensures the enemy ADC's health suffers, but at the same time, she's able to counterengage and play defensively. Currently, it's her lack of poke that's putting her in a bad spot, not her shields and polymorphs.

Verdade1 votes

Stop playing her as poke support, she's NOT POKE SUPPORT AND NEVER WILL BE.

Just because she can project up to 260+0.5AP magical damage to 1575 range doesn't mean she's supposed to do that reliably/often.

Dedicated poke champion (VK) delivers 240+0.6AP at 1521 range. That's somewhat comparable with Lulu, HOWEVER it's very skill intensive, stops at first minions and most importantly, his kit is balanced around it. He does literally only damage, while Lulu is one of most utility-focused supports.

EvilUnicornLord1 votes

Okay, you have made 5 comments to me in the same hour and all of them saying "Lulu isn't a poke support". Can you please stop? I would prove my point to you, but you've agitated me to the point that I don't want to hold 5 arguments with the same person!

Verdade1 votes

I don't care about your arguments or whatever. You just want to main Lulu and you want her to be overloaded, it's simple as that.

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

And thus you see the mindset of someone who has literally no idea what he/she is talking about.

Verdade1 votes

You want to give more damage to champion that has:

2x strong AOE slow Unique +max health buff AOE Knockup Point-and-click silence+disarm+strong slow Targeted shield Massive targeted AS and MS boost Targeted True sight 550 range Ability to proc all stacks on spellblade in single auto (Janna would give kidney for that)

If you want to give her damage she has to sacrifice her massive utility. I doubt there's single champion with more utility stuff in their kit. Not to mention she is one of VERY few champions with targeted hard CC. WW, Skarner, Nautilus and Vi have it tied to their R Panth, Maokai have it tied to their gap closers as they are immobile otherwise Only Annie and Fiddle can use it on demand, but Annie's stun has travel time and fiddle's kit is extremely punished for such ability. Lulu's poly has up to 33% uptime, which is ridiculous for targeted CC.

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Yes, yes I do.

Verdade1 votes

Well then, let's give Yi more tankiness and Nautilus more damage, what a brilliant idea!

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

I don't play much Yi, but I would like to see more damage, or at least better scalings on Nautilus. None of his abilities really do any damage, and building him as an AP bruiser is hard to do, since his damage is pretty low.

Verdade1 votes

For how long are you playing this game? There were huge problems with Naut's damage back in S5 and at the begginging of S6. He was outlaning everyone because he was very safe, tanky and had very good damage. Ganking his lane was very easy because he can CC lock everyone, ganking him was nightmare because of Q and R This is what he got because of it:

Riptide AP ratio reduced to (+ 30% AP) from (+ 50% AP) Slow duration reduced to 1.5 seconds from 2 Damage reduced to 55 / 85 / 115 / 145 / 175 from 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220

Titan's Wrath Damage reduced to 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 from 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 Shield health ratio increased to (+ 9 / 11 / 13 / 15 / 17% maximum health) from 7 / 9.5 / 12 / 14.5 / 17

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

I've been playing since the end of Season 4. However, that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see Naut buffed up a bit. He was hit pretty heavily by the nerf hammer, making him well less viable as a top/jg and forcing him into the support role.

EvilUnicornLord1 votes

Lulu isn't overloaded, quite the opposite, actually. I just saw that the changes Riot made to her Glitterlance could have been better if done in this way.

The changes proposed would:

  1. Make Lulu a better support so ADCs don't have to deal with their support playing a horribly underpowered champion.
  2. Make Lulu a better midlander, but not one without counterplay, so she doesn't make the enemy Zed, Talon, or Katarina feel absolutely useless.
  3. Encourage Lulu support and somewhat mid so she stops harassing melee top laners (as if they didn't have enough to deal with already, but that's an argument for another day).

These adjustments would help a lot more than just Lulu, you don't have to listen to Riven screaming "OMG THIS IS BS" from constantly dying to a misplaced Lulu, you can actually counterplay Lulu as an assassin midlander, and you won't have an awful Lulu support.

Verdade1 votes

Counterplay Lulu as assasin midlaner... i chuckled here. Go and assassinate something that can build tanky, has shield, point-and-click hard CC, AOE knockup and huge HP boost. What are you going to assassisnate next, Alistar?

EvilUnicornLord1 votes

The same way you counter Nami as an assassin midlaner, the same way you counter Janna as as assassin midlaner. You punish them for having little-to-no waveclear.

Freeze the lane, then go gank or focus on another objective. Assuming you aren't gone too long and you know the jungler cannot or won't help Lulu push, your tower's perfectly safe. The issue Lulu had is that she actually had some waveclear (position Pix on a minion and Glitterlance the whole wave) and now she doesn't unless she wants to forgo her natural build to buy Runaan's Hurricane, making it easier to assassinate her.

Or you could constantly ward and push the lane into tower, forcing her to lose cs and slowly building damage on her tower.

Verdade1 votes

So you suggest playing attrition war against support on mid? Mind=blown. If someone uses support on mid, you can just roam and get kills on sidelanes because support won't be able to take your turret in time. Trying to push him is the stupidest thing you can do

Aptest3 votes

if you really want to talk about brain-dead lane phase, let's talk zilean.

zilean in lane is basically "fun and interactive". and in that i mean, he just does not interact with you, and you have a hard time interacting with him.

It's an early game experience wholly comprised of "I shove better" into, "oh, a gank, lolspeedboostbyebye" from the zilean.

EvilUnicornLord2 votes

His Time Bombs are easier to block than you might think. Assuming you moved out of the way before he could put both of them on you, all you need is Sivir or any support with a shield to soak up the first one. But, yes, he is famous for being virtually unkillable.

Sightless661 votes

Nah. Support Lulu is pretty trash.

EvilUnicornLord3 votes

You aren't wrong. But that's no reason to give up on it and just put her in a solo lane otherwise she's just going to be the next Azir.

RainbowIcee2 votes

Just because it's not top tier doesn't mean it's trash. However it doesn't mean it should be low tier either, lulu needs some buff somewhere and some nerfs as-well to re-balance her position and not have her get out of hand. I'd say the ult should use some tweaks if she is to have more damage.

Baron Perenolde2 votes

Yes please, I don't want to be a poor man's Janna. Give me back my poke

gIKSvtuLV51 votes

Your toxic mindset is infecting the minds of others. Leave.

EvilUnicornLord7 votes

What are you talking about? You must have put this comment on the wrong post because I'm asking for an adjustment to a support to better help them overcome their 45.2% winrate.

Cowseed1 votes

Wait Lulu was shoehorned into support. Didn't notice.

EvilUnicornLord4 votes

Not quite, it was more that her midlane game had no counterplay. The intent of these changes were to make her mid game fair and encourage support.

Theorchero1 votes

Fuck lulu.

That champion is retarded when strong. She can give her ADC MS, AS, DMG on hit, and HP.

She's league version of fucking Io.

EvilUnicornLord5 votes

Clearly you have some biased hate towards Lulu. Perhaps a match lost some time in the past because the enemy Lulu was on point. There's nothing I can say that will change your mind about fixing Lulu's poor support game.

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