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Abusing Invisible Projectiles really should be bannable. =|

Stray Kat··62 votes·3,586 views

So, my most recent game was against a Nidalee using the headhunter skin. We've all heard about invisible projectiles and stuff.. And having it happen accidentally is one thing, but INTENTIONALLY causing it is totally different.

Through the entire laning phase she would constantly run into the bush or jungle EVERY time her Spear was off CD to throw it. Throwing it from outside of vision usually causes it to be invisible. She realized this, and used it EVERY time. To the point where she would go out of her way to walk into a bush to throw a spear from it, rather than just throwing it from where she was(She actually missed me multiple times due to changing her angle to step into the bush, but that's not the point).

I mean, she was blatantly abusing a bug. It was 100% obvious that she was going into the fog/bushes PURELY to throw invisible spears. I understand that it's a bug, and it isn't always intentional.. But this was just such blatant abuse of the bug. Why are people not punished for doing this?

I know it's hard to prove it was intentional sometimes, but in a match like this where I'm not sure she threw more than 2-3 spears from outside of the fog, it's hard to say "It's a bug, it wasn't intentional".

Just kind've irks me that there's nothing you can do about it. I understand that it's part of the game, and that you can still see some of the particles to dodge them, but she really did everything she could to abuse this bug every chance she got.

80 Comments

JustMyBassCannon37 votes

...There isn't a single Nidalee player--there isn't a single skill shot mage--that doesn't recognize the advantage of firing from the brush. They don't let off any obvious signal other than the missile flying at their target.

I'm willing to bet that the Nidalee player was firing from the brush because people tend to react slower because of the lack of warning. Unless it's a bug that happens 100% of the time--and thus worth disabling Nidalee until it's fixed--it's because of the natural advantage of skillshots from brush, rather than malicious bug abuse.

Stray Kat3 votes

It happens probably 95% of the time, in my experience - Close enough to 100% IMO. But it's not just Nid, it's many projectiles, so disabling would be difficult.

I understand that firing from the brush is a strategic thing - When you're not standing right next to it, stepping in, firing, stepping out. Every time. She didn't go in from the river to get a surprise attack, or hang out in the bush, or fire from the other side of the bush from where she went in.. She literally took one step in, threw it, stepped back out.

JustMyBassCannon6 votes

You know she also gets bonus damage from a distance. Orb-walking as Nidalee is normal. If the brush was in between you and her, it's on the way and it doesn't signal the spear being thrown, so it's convenient. If it's to the side or behind her, it gives no signal and increases the potential damage.

Report the bug. If you can, record the bug to report it.

I haven't seen invisible spears in a long time, so if it's suddenly happening almost literally every time, it needs to be reported. Complaining about players using a bug doesn't fix the bug. Fixing the bug fixes the players.

Akesgeroth12 votes

It's a bug that's been happening consistently for the last few months and Riot doesn't fix it because reasons.

JustMyBassCannon6 votes

Well, then...

{quoted}

Complaining about players using a bug doesn't fix the bug. Fixing the bug fixes the players.

...report the bug.

It's not like Riot can instantly detect how a bug is happening, but the more reports they get, the more they can get a clear picture of how it's happening and fix the code causing the bug.

It's how programming works. More feedback = better.

Akesgeroth17 votes

At the risk of sounding like an ass, do you realize how many times this bug has been reported? This is like when Viktor's laser was bugged; it got reported over and over again and nothing got fixed. IIRC, the answer we got then was that the bug wasn't getting fixed right away because of the way patch cycles work. Either way, it was a good six months before it got a fix and this invisible spear situation is starting to look a lot like this.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

No, I don't surf Bug Reports, so I'm not aware of how many times it has been reported.

I do know it was a problem in the past that got bug-fixed, and has apparently resurfaced. It also sounds like either (a) it's exclusive to Nidalee or (b) it has only been reported on Nidalee.

There are bugs that literally took years for Riot to find and fix.

There are people who take the time to test things as small as whether or not Malzahar's voidlings still scale on his bonus AD. If this bug bothers you, surely you can afford time to try and compile as much information about how and when it happens.

I know I'm a jackass, so I'll just say it simply; you can either bitch out Riot for not being omniscient, or you can make yourself useful to them.

Aych Pii5 votes

You should check out the bug report page sometime, dude. No disrespect at all, really, but this bug is on the front page there at least once a week, guaranteed, always with all sorts of details and fancy science shit. One time a guy even figured out how to reliably duplicate it, but that helped fuck all. It's been quite literally months, since around the start of the spring split or maybe even before.

Kuroi863 votes

The question is, do each of these threads provide information that can help track the bug, or is it simply more people complaining that it isn't fixed yet?

The first can be helpful in rooting out the bug, the second does nothing.

PrinceOfStorms2 votes

Except it's been around for years, is not exclusive to Nidalee, and Riot has claimed that it's been fixed multiple times.

The source of the bug is how skillshots interact with the brush and the fog of war. It's just more noticeable on Nidalee, whose spears deal large chunks of damage.

Rrett1 votes

The bug has been in the game for months now and riot knows about it.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Knowing that the bug is in the game and knowing how it's happening and how to fix it are entirely different things. Unless you're a programmer, I doubt you would actually comprehend that much.

Rrett1 votes

They know how it's happening and how to fix it.

Probably involves recoding something that will take a long time to recode is my guess.

These type of bugs have been in the game for awhile now.

powerbats3 votes

{quoted}

It's a bug that's been happening consistently for the last few months and Riot doesn't fix it because reasons.

Just because you see the bug doesn't mean you know where the actual problem is and then once you find it you have to try fixes that won't break everything else before you release it. That's why stuff gets tested internally then goes to PBE for more robust testing instead of just throwing code in there and hoping it all goes well.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

you know, unless you're Xerath

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Fair enough, although it's helpful to hide the wind-up on his Q. But that's more of an ambush technique than hide in bush, charge and fire.

Spacesuit Spiff2 votes

Well let's be honest... if she goes into a bush, and you don't realize she's gonna throw a spear, you've never seen a Nida before. And mid laners never just camp a bush just for this advantage. You have a point, but that's really not what's going on here.

Toothless Lion22 votes

I also propose a "played nidalee" report option in general, but I do agree. It'd be great if Riot worked on actually fixing the skin too.

Dies to Wolves2 votes

{quoted}

I also propose a "played nidalee" report option in general

yes

Lucentile5 votes

The problem is, how can you prove she was abusing a bug and not just using the obvious idea that, hey, if I throw something where they can't see me from, and let the spear travel farther, if it hits, it is better for me?

Also: Nunu's ult is invisible if he does it from a bush, so a player not aware this is a bug, might think it is a feature. After all, if obvious effects liked Singed's poison or Nunu's/Galio's ults go invisible, why wouldn't a spear?

Now -- most players ARE probably abusing the bug, but how do you prove it?

This is one spot where Riot just needs to fix how visibility works.

DirkTarTar5 votes

shhhh people forget about the invisi nunu ult :3

OhthePiplup7 votes

Im pretty sure thats intentional for the reasons of huge nunu bait trick plays

Svddenly5 votes

The Nunu ult being invisible from brush is 100% intentional.

IcyPepper5 votes

It actually is a bannable offense. Report that bitch and send a support ticket if necessary. If you were streaming or recording, that really helps.

FieBall253 votes

{quoted}

It actually is a bannable offense. Report that bitch and send a support ticket if necessary. If you were streaming or recording, that really helps.

Where is the proof that it's a bannable offense? Direct link to a place in the SC.

IcyPepper4 votes

They've punished it before.

Just like IP farming bots, it's something they'll ban but there's not a clear report option due to... honestly I don't know. Abuse, maybe?

Exploiting bugs and glitches is cheating, and something Riot does not tolerate.

Here's someone who got banned over exploits.

I'm sure that as long as it's unintentional, it's fine if it happened once, but purposely exploiting a bug for an unfair advantage is cheating. That's just common sense.

Remlap12235 votes

It's a bug. It's not a hack, it's a bug. You can't abuse a bug because you cannot control a bug. If I play Braum or Mundo, I don't get to choose when my Q decides to stop showing a visible projectile.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

It's a bug. It's not a hack, it's a bug. You can't abuse a bug because you cannot control a bug. If I play Braum or Mundo, I don't get to choose when my Q decides to stop showing a visible projectile.

But isn't the point of the thread that the projectile is a lot more likely to become invisible if thrown from a bush (this is something I see commonly)? A bug happening randomly isn't abuse on your end but if you're actively trying to make it happen as often as you can then IMO that is abuse.

Remlap12231 votes

You cannot prove that they were throwing projectiles from a bush just so they would turn invisible.

I've been binge playing Varus lately, and one of my favorite things to do is roam mid and snipe the enemy mid laner while they're recalling. If for some reason the Q turns invisible, should I be banned for it? It's something that I had no control over. Much like the wall glitch is something that people have no control over. If you kill someone who glitched back into their original position after they flashed over a wall, should you get banned for hacking? No, because you had no control over that. You put in a support ticket, and move on, and hope Riot actually fixes it.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

You cannot prove that they were throwing projectiles from a bush just so they would turn invisible.

I've been binge playing Varus lately, and one of my favorite things to do is roam mid and snipe the enemy mid laner while they're recalling. If for some reason the Q turns invisible, should I be banned for it? It's something that I had no control over. Much like the wall glitch is something that people have no control over. If you kill someone who glitched back into their original position after they flashed over a wall, should you get banned for hacking? No, because you had no control over that. You put in a support ticket, and move on, and hope Riot actually fixes it.

You can't prove that someone is abusing it rather than doing it accidentally, no. I don't know if you think that I'm advocating everyone who ever fires an invisible projectile being banned or something but I am not. I was just pointing out that there is a difference between accidentally triggering a bug and directly trying to make a bug happen as often as possible.

Hacking and having a bug happen in your game are worlds apart but actively trying to trigger known bugs is somewhere in the middle.

Altricad1 votes

A person once got perma-banned by Riot for the Sion ult- bug. He just demonstrated that mashing the 'h' button would cause sion to stutter and not travel the full distance, so yeah. Abusing bugs get you banned

Remlap12231 votes

They actually lifted the ban from his account because they said that the bug was indistinguishable from a hack, and has since apologized to him/her.

Hell, even Melanie Mac, you know, that Melanie Mac, the one on /all chat, the one that looks like Tinkerbell next to the glorious chocolate god Blakinola? She got banned for 80 years because of something with her friends list, and she was assumed to be hacking.

Riot makes mistakes. Bugs are mistakes. You shouldn't permaban someone for mistakes that they are unaware of, ESPECIALLY when they're on Riot's head.

Axests5 votes

It is, people who abused the sion ult bug were banned

Altricad1 votes

Perma-banned I might add, people need to realize the severity of abusing bugs. OP has a legitimate point, people are just saying "ward" when this is an actual issue

Lord Dusteon4 votes

They could have also been trying to use the fact that skillshots from fog of war if you don't have vision of a player are much harder to dodge.

Raptamei4 votes

Features that exist in the game should never be bannable. The fault lies with Riot.

3tyson3 votes

than you should be banned for playing jungle nidalee overal since when i jungle im going to trow my spear from the fog of war/bush like 99% of the time i mean

btw nidalee gets bonus for trowing spears from a greater distance.. so getting a bigger distance between the 2 of you could be what she was trying

Stray Kat1 votes

But often she'd end up slightly closer to do it. And I mean, I understand that it can be unintentional. But this wasn't. I dunno, I guess it's one of those things where when you see it, you know. Similar to the Lux I faced a few weeks ago(Support Lux) That would only throw her E from the bush once she realized they were invisible when she did.

-Shrug- It's just annoying to watch someone intentionally abuse it.

3tyson2 votes

{quoted}

But often she'd end up slightly closer to do it. And I mean, I understand that it can be unintentional. But this wasn't. I dunno, I guess it's one of those things where when you see it, you know. Similar to the Lux I faced a few weeks ago(Support Lux) That would only throw her E from the bush once she realized they were invisible when she did.

-Shrug- It's just annoying to watch someone intentionally abuse it

true but did you think of warding the bush ?

DarthSpectrum3 votes

Or that Nidalee could just be taking advantage of being able to hide her ability animation by staying in a bush.

Besides, that isn't even how one actually causes the invisible spear bug with Nidalee. I won't discuss it in detail, but it is possible to produce invisible spears without having to go into the bush.

Kuroi863 votes

Sadly, bugs can take a long time to root out. The best thing to do is experiment and get as much information on the bug as possible.

LoL is a MASSIVE game containing tens of thousands of files, each with a boat load of info crammed into it. And the truth is, this bug could be caused by something as simple as a single number or letter or space out of place or missing.

I'm not even kidding, take a course in web page design or computer programming, coding is so delicate that a single solitary error can FUBAR you harder than a doombot Veigar with DFG and rank 3 Primordial Burst.

Don't believe me, right click this page, click on (View Page Source) and scroll through all the info crammed into this one page. This simple page... it's redonculous. o.0

Stackless Python2 votes

I've only ever seen 2 invisible spears and they weren't fired from a bush, every time I see them from a bush they are clearly visible. It's been months since I've seen them, it's more likely a graphics problem.

Running an Sapphire R9 280 with Catalyst Control Center I run league on the highest setting with everything enabled I don't cap my frame rate and my monitor supports 144 Hertz

The biggest problem with trying to fix this invisible spear problem is trying to re-create it with up to date software.

My laptop runs is a Acer Aspire V-15 Nitro with a GeForce 860M and GeForce Experience, and I've never seen an invisible spear while playing league on it.

Do the people not seeing the spears try updating their drives and DirectX?

Stray Kat1 votes

Well, my computer hardware is by no means "Up to date", but my drivers/DirectX are(I run middle of the road settings for League, uncapped framerates). I honestly don't encounter the problem very often, But I also don't face Nid all that often. Really, I see it more often with the Lux E than I do with anything else - But I don't see many others even mention that one doing it. Similar situation, I only ever see it happen when fired from a bush - All you can see is a slight shimmer in the area(Basically a little distortion as it moves through), before it detonates.

Stackless Python1 votes

Then why suggest banning people who play Nidalee? I know this bug exists, but it doesn't happen for me, should I be banned for throwing spears out of a bush then?

It may look like I'm trying to "bug" the spears, but really I'm just throwing them without showing myself to have the chance of hitting much higher.

Stray Kat2 votes

I wouldn't even begin to suggest people be banned for simply playing her. Nor would I suggest that everyone who fires invisible spears does it intentionally.

But you CAN tell when someone is doing it intentionally. This nid literally stood next to the bush, took one step in, fired a spear, stepped out. The entire lane phase. Going in the bush wouldn't protect her from my harrass at all(Diana, my Q hit her anyway), she didn't use it to "throw them without showing myself to have the chance of hitting much higher" in this situation. She wouldn't do it in any form of unexpected manner, she wouldn't be sneaky about it.. She would literally ONLY throw a spear if it was from fog/bushes. She didn't use it to ambush people from a bush/fog, or use it to catch me off guard - She'd often miss hitting me BECAUSE she went into the bush. She made it blatantly obvious that it was to throw invisible spears.

If I warded the bush, she'd do it from between raptors/river wall instead. Taking literally one step into the fog, throwing, stepping back out. She was 100% predictable, AND would ruin her positioning and cause herself to miss by doing it.. But the spears were reliably invisible every time she tried it.

Stackless Python2 votes

But it's YOU that doesn't see the spears, while other players like myself do. Also:

PROWL: Moving through brush increases Nidalee's movement speed by 10% for 2 seconds, which increases to 30% if she is moving toward a visible enemy champion within 5500-range.

I mean, you get free movement speed for being in a bush. It makes sense to fire a spear while in the bush and then walk out, because if it hits you gain the free movement speed to follow up. I think you are looking for someone to blame.

Sona Ping3 votes

I frequently step into the bushes to fire Caitlyn's Q. It doesn't matter how "blatantly obvious" it is that I'm going to fire a Q, it enables me to score hits with it more often.

And the thing is

{quoted}

I only ever see it happen when fired from a bush

The bug doesn't _only _ occur with bushes either

It Hertz When IP2 votes

I have Headhunter Nidalee and I've been trying to abuse replicate this bug for ages. I STILL can't get my spears to be invisible.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb2 votes

Hey, just thought I'd weigh in. I have a 2 years of game development experience under my belt, and I've dealt a fair bit with QA over the past few months. This bug seems like it's not actually difficult to repro. Tracking down the cause of bugs can often be difficult, but a bug like this is a game breaker and should be prioritized accordingly. The highest priority bugs are usually crashes, but things that heavily fuck with the gameplay are right below that, typically. Things like abilities going on cd without firing or inivisible skill shots would fall under this category.

Rrett2 votes

It's just a problem with the headhunter skin.

they're just doing a mannerism that they'd do with or without the bug.

The invisible spears is a bug that's been happening for a very long time. Riot knows about it, reddit knows about, generally speaking you're the only one who doesn't know about it. I've seen more than a couple of threads about this over the year. It's definitely not a new problem.

From my understanding it works by being on terrain that's at a lower spot and it just goes through the ground. There are other triggers as well but this is a gerneral one.

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