remove fioras "minigame"

Qiyana Ixaocan·Jan 30, 2020·5 votes·1,324 views

no one should get free harass just by existing. you either give fiora free damage or back off and miss farm. That is inherently broken as a mechanic no one should be able to deny you farm simply because they exist.

14 Comments

Darkdemon653Jan 31, 20204 votes

[{quoted}](name=Qiyana Ixaocan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VWXHGd44,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-30T22:09:31.277+0000)

no one should get free

It's not free. No champion gets anything for free.

Exodus247Jan 31, 20203 votes

Not true, certainlyt champs get almost everything every time, and they gotta be gutted acordingly

Yets4240Jan 31, 20202 votes

What are the costs and trade offs for it?

Darkdemon653Jan 31, 20203 votes

{quoted}

What are the costs and trade offs for it?

The cost is not having as much power elsewhere. If she were to not have an innate, her abilities and stats would have more power than they currently do.

Exodus247Jan 30, 20203 votes

They keep giving her free shit. In my eyes, she has no real counterplay anymore. She used to, for example, the whole thing where her splitpush was really bad, now isnt a thing with her q and e hitting towers. Her ult used to not give innate movespeed, you had to hit a vital for that, now she gets to run at you at warwick speed for free. The worst part is how generous the passive hitboxes are, especially with the q auto locking onto them, and in some cases, defying physics to proc them. Its bullshit, but shes one of the golden children, so shes not gonna be changed anytime soon

Weiner the PoohJan 31, 20202 votes

Fiora’ splitpush was buffed because her team fight is non existent. If Fiora isn’t allowed to be a splitpusher and isn’t allowed to be a team fighter? What exactly does she do for the game? Nothing. Ok great she can duel some champs well, but in some cases she still gets out dueled, out split and our team fought by certain champions.

Her ult always gave movespeed. It was nerfed to not but that made her horrible. It felt horrible to play and it made her terrible. Her passive hit boxes are the opposite of what you claim. Theyll be times where you can auto attack it and it won’t proc.

Exodus247Jan 31, 20202 votes

First, her teamfight is nonexistant? What the hell? Ive seen many times a fiora that has just broke even, not even fed, ults someone and just destroys them instantly, and when you try to cc her she gets 1.5 seconds of fuck you, and if the cc is a slow, its still stuns you. She NEVER gets outdueled unless the person playing her is stupid, she is LITERALLY MADE TO WIN THE LANE, which is not something that a champ should be based on.

Second, her ult did give movespeed ONLY WHEN YOU HIT A VITAL FIRST, it never gave innate movespeed and actually made you take a risk or an all in to get it. Her passive hitboxes are the oposite? Every single fucking time ive fought fiora, her hitboxes are so generous with her q that, again, defy physics and bend around to proc them, same goes for ult. Tiamat makes it worse, because im pretty sure the aoe on it can also proc the vitals, which leads to the most r%%%%%ed thing ive seen, where you can try to counter her ult by staying against a wall, but she procs tiamat or uses the active AND IT WILL POP IT THROUGH THE WALL. Shes buggy as fuck and a rediculously unfun design, i almost miss old fiora.

FoxynthJan 31, 20201 votes

Strictly speaking, the Q is a "targeted" ability that prioritizes champions.

Weiner the PoohJan 31, 20201 votes

First, her teamfight is nonexistant? What the hell?

Unless its full build she can't do that unless her team helps her, in which case no shit, anyone can blow up people if their team is helping.

ults someone and just destroys them instantly

She has no engage and mediocre follow up. She cannot reach priority targets and has to go for the front line unless she gets an exceptional flank.

Second, her ult did give movespeed ONLY WHEN YOU HIT A VITAL FIRST, it never gave innate movespeed and actually made you take a risk or an all in to get it.

V5.15 Grand Challenge Grand Challenge (R) ACTIVE: Fiora targets an enemy champion, highlighting all four of their Vitals for the next few seconds. If Fiora is able to attack all four Vitals, or if she destroys at least one before the target dies, Fiora creates a ~600 radius zone that substantially heals Fiora and allies within the area over the next 5 seconds.** While within 600 units of her target and while within the healing zone, Fiora gains bonus movement speed. **Duelist's Dance will not identify new Vitals while Fiora's target has at least one exposed.

It was then removed in 7.14 V7.14 Grand Challenge: REMOVED: Gaining Dance Duelist's Dance dance movement speed bonus while in the area.

and added back in 7.18 V7.18 Grand Challenge: NEW EFFECT: While near the target, Fiora gains Dance Duelist's Dance movement speed bonus.

Every single fucking time ive fought fiora, her hitboxes are so generous with her q that, again, defy physics and bend around to proc them

Her passive hit box is extremely buggy. It constantly will target a minion over a vital and there are times when auto attacks simply will not proc the vital. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q2y9Qn6fmk&feature=youtu.be

Tiamat makes it worse, because im pretty sure the aoe on it can also proc the vitals, which leads to the most r%%%%%ed thing ive seen where you can try to counter her ult by staying against a wall, but she procs tiamat or uses the active AND IT WILL POP IT THROUGH THE WALL.

Tiamat does not proc it. You can test this in a practice tool. It wont proc vitals from the active or from auto attacking and an adjacent vital being near. It cannot proc it.

Baby GhoulJan 31, 20203 votes

I feel like Fiora is Riot's pet project, and that's why she's allowed to be BS.

If you think about it, the Fiora and juggernaut reworks are what started this whole mess with stuffing so much into one kit.

She used to be the most binary champion in the game. There were three possible outcomes. You cheesed early game with your QAAQAA combo and started a snowball that nobody could contest, or you didn't get anything done and fell off hard after laning phase. Or you got old Malphite picked into you and immediately lost. She wasn't as popular past Silver because everyone that got through Silver remembered what it was like taking a bad fight against Fiora and having the game spiral.

To the design team her dynamic elements probably seem like a big success. She's a proplay darling now, but what they really did was go from one extreme to the other. She really has no downsides and that's just as toxic as a feast or famine design.

SaezioJan 31, 20201 votes

proplay darling? How much pro do you watch? and when was the last time you saw a fiora ban/pick in pro?

NickColaTesla Jan 31, 20201 votes

If you try AA a vital spot early game, you're gonna get chunked down by minions.

She has terrible wave clear. She can either be terrible at farming or can't hold a perma freeze because of tiamat.

Wanna know how can harass just by existing? Teemo? Vayne? Kennen? Ornn? Darius? Quinn? Ryze (God, son't get me started on Ryze)? The list literally goes on for every champion.

Qiyana IxaocanFeb 4, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=NickColaTesla ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VWXHGd44,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2020-01-31T01:53:38.353+0000)

If you try AA a vital spot early game, you're gonna get chunked down by minions.

She has terrible wave clear. She can either be terrible at farming or can't hold a perma freeze because of tiamat.

Wanna know how can harass just by existing? Teemo? Vayne? Kennen? Ornn? Darius? Quinn? Ryze (God, son't get me started on Ryze)? The list literally goes on for every champion.

None of those harrass for free only fiora does with her passive. and post level 3 minions dont matter unless you have multiple waves

NickColaTesla Feb 4, 20201 votes

Vayne and Kennen literally have passives where they deal true damage and stuns based on prior damage performed on the enemy champion.

And post 3 minion waves very much DO matter. Fiora is a very squishy target, and you need to be VERY keen on trading throughout minon agro.