Daily thread on why Zoe is still in the game

Luigi Tortellini·Jun 24, 2018·6 votes·1,655 views

Remove this fucking champ already. Why as Aatrox being removed for being a "statcheck" when Zoe is 30x the cancer of any champ in the game. That stupid fucking champ has 57% winrate in 20 minute games in plat+ games. She is everything season 3 Nid was but so much worse. Old nid spears were slow. Old nid spears couldn't be thrown from autistic angles. Old nid spear wouldn't 100 - 0 you unless she was 15+ kills. Old nid couldn't sleep you. Old nid couldn't use 50 summoner spells. Old nid couldn't flash every 6 seconds to bypass creeps.

Old nid was removed for being toxic. Then they release Zoe. Fuck Riot games. And fuck Certainly-T and his "innovative" designs. If I fucked up as bad and as regularly as Certianly-T at my job I would have a job.

5 Comments

OverpoweredSoapJun 24, 20183 votes

Zoe is just fucking weird.

Her passive is basically Lich bane.

Q is suppose to be her main damage spell that is able to nuke people, but playing against it doesn't feel fair (its also super fucking frustrating) so Riot kind of wants to keep it undertuned or its basically broken.

W is an ability that really punishes the enemy players for using their SS while also giving her damage for using summoner spells with no cooldown while not having to aim it, while also giving her a MS boost. Also RNG drops from certain minions, which is... weird because SS and item abilities can completely change a lot of match ups. The W damage is either barely noticeable or too much because she doesn't have to aim it and the movementspeed boost lets her get into a position to damage you with it.

E has aspects of counterplay to it, but also feels forgiving because of the lingering zoning hitbox it leave behind if she misses. It also deals true damage for some reason when someone pops the sleep... Which is weird...

R exists as a way to let Zoe land her (and do more damage with) Q and E easier.

Two things happen with Zoe.

Either her Q does an absurd amount of damage and she's basically Old Nidalee without a reliable escape or her Q doesn't do enough damage and she's kinda there with some pick potential with E.

And if her Q doesn't do enough damage they put damage into her W, which makes her hard to deal with (also technically hard for her to control and point her damage at enemies I guess) because she gets free damage from using summoner spells, while gaining a lot of MS and also giving her a bunch of RNG from balloon minion drops.

My goal here isn't to just state her kit or call her overpowered but to clarify her kit is incredibly hard to balance by design because her damage comes in either Q (which to be useful has to absolutely chunk people from far away) or her W (which gives her a bunch of shit depending on the SS, the MS and can be unreliable because RNG and auto targeted damage).

Like half her kit calls her to be this kind of auto attack spellweaver who wants to throw autos in between every ability, to take SS from enemies and use that to gain an advantage while being in their face and the other half calls her to be an artillery mage who oneshots people from afar.

Zoe's kit is this weird mix between long range poke/burst and battle mage and it causes her to be a big balance issue because the two playstyles don't mix together very well.

I'm sorry for the big wall of text and also if it doesn't make sense (because I'm writing this at like 12:00 AM) but those are my thoughts on Zoe.

LafirenzeJun 24, 20182 votes

As a Zoe player, thanks for actually giving a pretty good analysis of why balancing her kit is a pretty difficult problem.

I will also add that paddlestar is one of the more difficult skillshots to land, since it needs to travel far to do respectable damage but it also has a pretty short range it can travel from where it was cast before it evaporates. So Zoe players need to constantly play distance blackjack of hitting enemies just before it crosses its vanishing threshold and no further. So if you've ever wondered why Zoe keeps throwing paddlestars at you that vanish a few inches in front of your face, that's why.

Then add to that the rather lengthy windup time of sending a paddlestar in the opposite direction before sending it back to the point you want to hit, which requires you to guess where your opponent will be a second from now. If you wonder why Zoe players so often hit you of the fog, it's because it is pretty easy to avoid paddlestar (aimed to hit your position and no further) by backing up a little.

Then add to that the fact that Zoe often needs to angle paddlestar around where she thinks minions or other blockers will be at the moment it crosses their path. Which is another reason why Zoe tends to like to strike from the sides of lanes like an artillery turret.

So part of why paddlestar does so much damage is because it needs to be strong enough to be worth dealing with everything that can cause it completely whiff, otherwise it would be quite weak in comparison to skills that can be landed more consistently.

And I have to admit, pulling off a perfect paddlestar does feel pretty good as a Zoe player mostly because it's so hard to do right.

AstorineJun 24, 20181 votes

Zoe 5LeEPy tR0uBLe BuBbLE!

GigglesOJun 24, 20181 votes

Yea I feel like Zoe is one big stat check. Do you have the mobility, and damage to instantly kill her? No? GgWP she auto wins because ranged super safe nuke mage....

DenevielJun 24, 20181 votes

I don't think you remember the old Nida well:

No mana dash escapes
Passyve MS boost with almost no CD
Half hp heals every 3 sec
Invisible spears for FOW
Way larger Hitbox

Also the old Nida dealt that insane dmg in a meta where very few champ could have done the same. Now almost anyone can 100 to 0 you in 1-2 skills.

While i totally hate Zoe as concept ( like any Certainly-T champ ) and i would really like to see her reworked or deleted i honesly thik that the old Nida was way more cancerous than her