Create tons of champions
Only have about 20% of them actually viable and playable in the meta.
Only have about 20% of them actually viable and playable in the meta.
But people buy the champions, you see. That's the point.
I can come up with quite a few good reasons
1: some champions are just more fun to play. 2: People don't own every champion. 3: What you said 4: Different mechanics. The easier played champions will be picked more.
Different mechanics. The easier played champions will be picked more.
This is true if the game is actually balanced. The problem is that it's not, so most of the popular champs in this game are the ""high skill"" champs, because apparently being more versatile by definition is not enough for those players, they also need more power for their ego.
This creates the situation that ""high skill"" champs are in reality easier to play in League, and are also more powerful. And imagine my surprise to know that the high elo and pro scene is mostly dominated by those champs with an exception of a couple accidental balance hiccups.
That's how it is for most competitive games. Especially if there are as many as we have in league. As long as the meta changes and new champs become meta and others fall out of meta, it's perfectly fine.
cough Last International cough Sorry, I forgot to take my cough medicine
what is the point of having over 100 champions if only 20-25 are ever picked?
Because balancing over 100 champions is near impossible, so Riot's balance design is to instead design the game so that the 20-25 champs in meta will be constantly changing. Super Smash Brothers is balanced with the same idea, and nobody ever complains. Pokemon is balanced with the same idea, it's usually not an issue. Why is this design suddenly such a problem in League?
Ok....... how about you try again, and either erase your reply or answer my question? Because your response makes absolutely no sense.
Also, just for the hell of it lets analyze your logic for a moment.
So by your own admission there is a pool of 20-25 champions that are viable to play in the game. Coupled with the fact that there are currently 10 bans, which will invariably be used on 10 of those 20-25, that leaves us with 10-15 playable champions.
Now we go into picks. There are 10 people playing each game, which leaves the last player to pick with a choice of SIX champions. Out of more than a hundred, he can choose from six without being considered a troll, or costing his team the game by picking a champion that simply does not measure up.
It gets even worse when you consider that there is quite obviously an order to the picks, for example: Lee Sin is a slightly better pick than Gragas.
I mean, how much longer is it before riot is essentially picking the champions for us?
I did answer your question. There are over 100 champions, with a meta of the best champs constantly changing as nerfs/buffs happen, and people find new ways of countering the meta. The metagame shifts, which is all that matters.
I ask what is the point of having over 100 champions when you can only pick 20 of them. You respond by saying there are only 20 champs you can pick, which is not an answer, unless you are incapable of comprehending the question.
The point is that the list of champs that are meta change. That's why it's okay that there's only 20-30 champs that are considered the best. Plus, all competitive games will have and need to have a meta.
what is the point of having over 100 champions if only 20-25 are ever picked?
uhhhhh....88 champions were picked/banned in the spring split http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/League_Championship_Series/North_America/2017_Season/Spring_Season/Statistics/Champions
and 59 in the summer split http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/League_Championship_Series/North_America/2017_Season/Summer_Season/Statistics/Champions
both of these are over 2-3 times what your saying so where is your source?
http://www.lolking.net/charts#/Most%20Popular%20Champions
Also, 2016 worlds finals. Same champions picked and banned across all games. with a 1 champion variation MAX. Now that i think about it, this isn't specific to a certain year either. At the highest level of play, you never see any variation. Lee sin every year, gragas every year. syndra every year since release. orianna every year. same shit different year.
Just because people pick incorrectly even in high elo doesn't mean that certain champions aren't stronger than all others. Screw it, i guess ill just go with the flow and let riot tell me which champions to play in each role.
http://www.lolking.net/charts#/Most%20Popular%20Champions
Also, 2016 worlds finals. Same champions picked and banned across all games. with a 1 champion variation MAX. Now that i think about it, this isn't specific to a certain year either. At the highest level of play, you never see any variation. Lee sin every year, gragas every year. syndra every year since release. orianna every year. same shit different year.
Just because people pick incorrectly even in high elo doesn't mean that certain champions aren't stronger than all others. Screw it, i guess ill just go with the flow and let riot tell me which champions to play in each role.
ok lets do worlds of each year shall we ? included finals just to humor your thought process
Season 1 46 champions played http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/Season_1_World_Championship/Champion_Stats 17 in the final 2 games 1 diffrent champ
Season 2 59 champions played http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/Season_2_World_Championship/Statistics/Champions 24 in 4 games averages out to 2 new champs a game
Season 3 69 champions played http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/Season_3_World_Championship/Statistics/Champions 24 in 3 games 2.33- new champs a game
2014 61 champs http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/2014_Season_World_Championship/Statistics/Champions Finals 26 champs over 4 games 2.5 new champs a game
2015 74 champs http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/2015_Season_World_Championship/Statistics/Champions finals 25 champs over 4 games 2.25 new champs a game
2016 57 champs http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/2016_Season_World_Championship/Statistics/Champions 29 champs in 5 games is 2.6 champs a game
2017 has introduced 10 bans over 6 bans so now there are automatically going to be at least 4 new champions on the ban/not ban list and 2 of them can make the other good pick so that it is counter picking itself adding another layer of champions they will need to have. The amount of champions we will see picked/banned will grow considerably in the next finals since now they can target ban a role that is put into the second part of the drafting phase
there is a large amount of World viable champions is about 1/3rd of existing champion pool or more every year. the finals witch are the same people playing against 2+ champs getting swapped out every game beating your 1 character variation max statement. and ladder thing 5 champions never see the sun due to bans and in gold+filtering in league of graphs shows that 80 champs have about a 5% of being picked or banned. 32 are are 10% or higher sure popular champs are popular but it doesnt mean the others are non viable by any stretch of the imagination. if everyone was showing aatrox-nunu levels of play it would be more of a problem but they arn't and champions such as camille with a 3.6 popularity rate are seeing pro play sooo how much does popularity matter ? none
you missed a key word. FINALS. worlds. FINALS. Please learn how to read and comprehend english before responding any further.
if you missed it in the finals were listed there under the links posted ranging from 17 season 1 in the finals to 29 champs in 2016 with 2.6 new champs picked/banned each round. maybe you missed it due to how much information i put in but 29 unique champs in the course of 5 games is insane in terms of diversity List of champions played in just the grand finals ashe syndra cass nid mf ryze poppy lee viktor cait zyra trundle olaf ori jihn karma jayce elise gnar ryze nami kennen kindred Asol ezreal zyra zac braum tahm Direct link to where you can see them all within the 5 rounds skt played against Samsung http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/2016_Season_World_Championship/Scoreboards/Bracket_Stagevery bottem under grand finals just show spoilers
So no I didnt miss it but when you scope down any competitive game to 5 matches its probably going to be insanely small amount of the champions simply due to it being the same 10 players. and in the finals when money is on the line im probably going to play my best champs wouldn't you? theres 2 mill on this game lets pick up riven/azir/kalista/ect for the first time !
um nope, there were definitely not 29 champs in 2016 friend. nice try though.
you right i counted zyra twice mb 1 ashe 2 nidalee 3 syndra 4miss fortune 5 cassiopeia 6Ryze 7 Zyra 8Jhin 9Caitlyn 10. olaf 11.poppy 12 orianna 13 viktor 14 karma 15 lee sin 16 trundle
Game 2 new people 1jayce 2elise 3gnar 4 kindred 5nami 6kennen ok 6+16=24
Game 3 new people 1aurelion sol 2ezreal 24+2=26
game 4 nope
game 5 new people braum and tahm 28 but 28 still not bad
I would also love to see you explain the math you used to come to these "conclusions"
if your talking about new pickbans per finals you start out with 16 champs from the inital pick/ban then add say lets take 2015 for examples sake there where 25 unqiue new champions in the grand finals 25-16=9 there where 4 games so each game had 2.25 unique champs in that game
the 2017 is just me guessing no facts behind it except + 2 bans for each team and target banning the remaining roles is now a thing
http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/2016_Season_World_Championship/Picks_and_Bans/Bracket_Stage#Finals
take a look at that, and tell me there is good champion diversity there.
That's how it is for most competitive games. Especially if there are as many as we have in league. As long as the meta changes and new champs become meta and others fall out of meta, it's perfectly fine.
It's nothing to do with the reality or the realistic boundary of competitive games that only a minority of champs/picks are viable there. It just means the game is very unbalanced.
Any reasonably balanced game will feature at least a majority of the roster being picked somewhere in the tournaments.
And that is why they keep having to buff and nerf champions. to keep them viable.
I think the next champion Ornn is going to be a top pick for a long while judging by the teaser video and what he can actually do.
Especially in competitive play unless the meta shifts to like a carry top meta, but for that to happen, we'll need more hard carry champions made.
I think the next champion Ornn is going to be a top pick for a long while judging by the teaser video and what he can actually do.
Especially in competitive play unless the meta shifts to like a carry top meta, but for that to happen, we'll need more hard carry champions made.
its just a matter of time before Riot says they when over board and nerf him. this champ has 2 knock ups and a a knock back. No other champ has that much hard cc.
Lmao
those are the ones with at least 3 hard cc and naut is nowhere near top tier, ali is balanced, zac has been gutted(thank god), sej is pretty good, and mao is recieving well deserved nerfs. cc is not uncommon, nor gamebreaking. Ornn has a tiny knockback on auto's that he has to apply brittle to before getting, and a knockup that recquires hitting terrain to get, and another knockup comes from a skillshot(the second ult cast. That isn't that reliable, so that cc is nowhere near the levels of even the other champs with three forms of hard cc. Honestly his cc doesn't seem broken at all, and now that we know he has a very small sect of items he can upgrade, which cost gold, and can't cheese with buying pots out of lane, Ornn seems balanced SO FAR. Numbers are up in the air tho.
[{quoted}](name=dolce de leche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VKAxBbqY,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-08-08T01:38:49.890+0000)
Lmao
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those are the ones with at least 3 hard cc
Nautilus has only 2, hooks minor stun and R's knock up.
Passive snare allows you to fight back but like a baby version of Morgana q. E is a simple slow.
Passive roots it counts. Don't know why that was what you chose to comment on tho. Since it was correct, but not even important to the main point.
[{quoted}](name=dolce de leche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VKAxBbqY,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-08T02:36:58.109+0000)
Passive roots it counts. Don't know why that was what you chose to comment on tho. Since it was correct, but not even important to the main point.
Because root shouldn't be classified as hard cc when you can still perform 70% functionality on said rooted character.
Hard cc is anything that stops you from moving or forces you to move. It should count, would you really say that Morg's q is in the same line with slows?
Hard cc is anything that stops you from moving or forces you to move. It should count, would you really say that Morg's q is in the same line with slows?
I agree with displacements since you typically can't do shit during them. But Morgana q I disagree with, since you can cast most spells, auto attack, use most items, and summoners.
Thats litterally how it works with everything. T There will always be a best Unless you go dota route where every champion is op in there own way and theres hard counters.
This argument doesn't even make sense. Dota characters were developed much, much, much more slowly than league champions are first of all. They were also always released too weak intentionally so that people wouldn't fight over them and pick them every single game. This also allowed for a much larger sampling of games as well as allowing people to become comfortable on the champion BEFORE balancing it. (this is a crucial distinction)
Balancing a champion before people are comfortable on it is not only impossible, but it will always lead to the champion being much more powerful than it needs to be. It also leads to everyone wanting to pick it, and everyone also wanting to ban it. In general it creates an unhealthy environment. If half the people in the game want to play the champion, but only one person gets to, how is that fun for the other people who want to play the new champion?
There aren't really hard counters in Dota. There are weak matchups sure. But there is always a way to beat a champion with any other champion in Dota, usually due to superior itemization and a much larger variety of items. League is much closer to hard counters than Dota has ever been. The balance in Dota isn't perfect, and you are right, it is impossible to perfectly balance any game that doesn't involve everyone playing the same character. You can get really close to perfect balance though, if you try.
That being said, League of legends doesn't even try to come close. There are champions that have a power level that is easily more than twice that of another champion, and they are left this way for years, some of them will probably never be viable again.