Why I'm feeling this is not a Tank Class update..

WiegrafOfValor·Apr 10, 2017·6 votes·1,302 views

EDIT - source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/04/410-pbe-update.html

#Ravenous Hydra Attack damage increased to 80 from 75.

#The Bloodthirster AD increased to 80 from 75.

#Zeal Total cost lowered from 1300 to 1200.

#Statikk Shiv Energized Attacks damage changed from 50-120 to 60-160

#Runaan's Hurricane Bolt damage increased from 25% attack damage to 40% attack damage.

#Rapid Firecannon _[new effect] Attacks become Energized 25% faster. _

#Lord Dominik's Regards _Total cost lowered from 2700 to 2600. _ Giant Slayer - effect increased from up to 15% to up to 20%

#Executioner's Calling - Counter to Lifesteal and Soraka's Heals Price increased from 800g to 1000g

#Death's Dance Attack damage increased from 75 to 80 _Unique Passive - changed from 15% to 30% of damage taken is dealt as a Bleed over 3 seconds instead. _

#"TANK UPDATE" http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/594/192/596.gif

49 Comments

Jeddy017Apr 10, 20176 votes

They never said tanks were the only ones getting updates this midseason. They mentioned crit/ad items would see changes too.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

We are seeing the changes.. more AD

Jeddy017Apr 10, 20173 votes

And there's probably more changes on the way (the tank reworks are certainly happening). Remember, midseason is in 7.9. All the tank item changes & a few other things are on the PBE (7.8) for early testing.

We're not seeing the full scope of the midseason changes.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

Unless they buff every Tank base stats to compensate for the item nerfs and ADC buffs, I don't think it will matter

The Last BalladApr 11, 20171 votes

Wait, unless they do as they said months ago(MONTHS) they were going to do, it doesn't matter?

TheSnackenApr 11, 20171 votes

I think that's the idea. They mentioned that they want Armor and Magic Resist to be more of the budget for tank items. The AD core buffs are to compensate for that (If my math is right, its still a veeeeery slight nerf to lethality).

The overall change should be pretty minor, but my math could also be totally wrong.

chipndip1Apr 11, 20171 votes

Yeah...by 5. TADA!

You also magically forgot to put any nerfs in there, like Last Whisper's bonus armor pen decreasing, Black Cleaver's armor shred decreasing, Shiv's proc damage decreasing, or Runaan's losing its on-hit.

WiegrafOfValorApr 11, 20171 votes

Because that's worth the +5% damage on high HP enemies + 40 magic damage bonus on Shiv + Rapid Fire getting charges 25% faster + runnan's doing 40% damage on bolts + Death's Dance doubling his passive + Zeal cost reduction..

Sure..

BTW if you are thinking that 10% reduction nerf means something, think again:

#HOW IT IS NOW

#Lord Dominik's Regards

Stats +50 attack damage

Passive UNIQUE – GIANT SLAYER: Grants up to +15% bonus physical damage against enemy champions with greater maximum health than you (+1.5% damage per 100 health difference, maxing at 1000 health difference).

UNIQUE – LAST WHISPER: +45% bonus armor penetration.

#HOW IT WILL BE

#Lord Dominik's Regards PBE

Stats +50 attack damage

Passive UNIQUE – GIANT SLAYER: Grants up to +20% bonus physical damage against enemy champions with greater maximum health than you (+2% damage per 100 health difference, maxing at 1000 health difference).

UNIQUE – LAST WHISPER: +35% bonus armor penetration.

Let's see how both go against LIVE and PBE Rammus building the same items.

LIVE Rammus LVL 10. - item 3143 item 3068 item 3742 -

HP: 1230 + 500 + 500 + 500 = 2730 AR: 65 + 60 + 50 + 50 = 225

PBE Rammus LVL 10. - item 3143 item 3068 item 3742 -

HP: 1230 + 425 + 425 + 425 = 2505 AR: 65 + 60 + 60 + 60 = 245

OLD Lord Dominik's Regards VS Rammus

LIVE: 225 - 45% = 123 ( 102 reduction ) PBE: 245 - 35% = 159 ( 86 reduction )

#SORRY GUYS, MY MISTAKE, LAST WHISPER ONLY FACTOR IN BONUS ARMOR, NOT BASE ARMOR, LET'S DO THE MATH AGAIN.

225 - 65 = 160 AR 245 - 65 = 180 AR

OLD Lord Dominik's Regards VS Rammus

LIVE: 160 - 45% = 88 ( 72 reduction ) PBE: 180 - 35% = 117 ( 63 reduction )

#16 9 ARMOR IN EXCHANGE FOR 225 HP + THE FACT THAT ADC ARE DOING 5% MORE DAMAGE ON ME... NO, THANK YOU.

SOURCE: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/04/410-pbe-update.html http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

The Last BalladApr 11, 20171 votes

Runaan's losing its on-hit

To clarify for those who haven't seen the changes, they removed the extra 15 damage done on-hit, not the bolt's procing on-hit.

SherogarthApr 10, 20174 votes

"We increased armor (while lowering the health for balance) on tank items so we need to recompensate for this to our ad champions. With those changes ad champions will see no difference in killing tanks and they will kill unarmoured targets and turrets even faster. Also we like to shit on mages." - Rito Gems 2017

Weasel KenseiApr 10, 20172 votes

Yeah, what Sherogarth said.

This will just shit on supports alot more also. Thats how I see it. I mean squishies will die faster because of this more than anything...

Whats the point of shifting tank stats around, if theyre going to shift AD power up to compensate for the tank stat shifting. EVERY MATCH HAS AN AD CHAMP IN IT!! Not every team has a tank... I dont get this, I can see an upside to buffing AD items other than to make the Bronze/low Silver games stupider than they already are.

Big LincolnApr 11, 20171 votes

because death's dance and ravenous are bought on almost nobody

it's not "to compensate" for anything; DD isn't being bought enough and RH sucks dick on everyone besides fiora

LICENSED HOOKERApr 11, 20171 votes

in the end, riot can never fix their game with previous champions or item states..

they just create a never-ending imbalanced game balance cycle.. by giving weapons or champions prime time buffs..

RalanrApr 10, 20172 votes

They also said they'd deal with anti tank stuff as well.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20171 votes

#Mortal Reminder Armor Penetration changed from 45% to 35%

"DEALT"

chipndip1Apr 11, 20171 votes

Reduced HP means less effective Ruined King.

KaiokoApr 10, 20172 votes

Why does tank update automatically means it needs to be a tank buff?

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

Because Tanks are in a bad position, while ADC are stronger than ever.

TANKS:

Volibear 45% WINRATE TOP Maokai 46% WINRATE TOP Chogath 46% WINRATE TOP DrMundo 46.7% WINRATE TOP Poppy 48% WINRATE TOP Trundle 48% WINRATE TOP TahmKench 48% WINRATE TOP Rammus 48.4% WINRATE TOP Shen 48.7% WINRATE TOP Nautilus 49.5% WINRATE TOP

THE ONLY TANK WITH POSITIVE WINRATE IS MALPHITE AP TOP (52.4%), THAT CAN'T BE EVEN COUNTED AS A TANK SINCE HE'S BUILDING OFFENSE TO STAY RELEVANT. THIS WITHOUT THE NERFS TO TANK ITEMS.

MEANWHILE...

Pantheon , Talon AND Tryndamere ARE ON THE TOP OF THE CHARTS

KaiokoApr 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because Tanks are in a bad position, while ADC are stronger than ever.

Let's pretend though that there are no nerfs incoming to the two biggest items items that counter tanks - Last Whisperer and Black Cleaver.

I do like how you conveniently ignored those. Mentioned the 5% increase % health damage on LDR while completely ignoring the 10% reduced armor pen.

Seems like a very non bias post right there :)

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20173 votes

#HOW IT IS NOW

#Lord Dominik's Regards

Stats +50 attack damage

UNIQUE – LAST WHISPER: +45% bonus armor penetration.

#HOW IT WILL BE

#Lord Dominik's Regards PBE

Stats +50 attack damage

UNIQUE – LAST WHISPER: +35% bonus armor penetration.

Let's see how both go against LIVE and PBE Rammus building the same items.

LIVE Rammus LVL 10. - item 3143 item 3068 item 3742 -

HP: 1230 + 500 + 500 + 500 = 2730 AR: 65 + 60 + 50 + 50 = 225

PBE Rammus LVL 10. - item 3143 item 3068 item 3742 -

HP: 1230 + 425 + 425 + 425 = 2505 AR: 65 + 60 + 60 + 60 = 245

OLD Lord Dominik's Regards VS Rammus

LIVE: 225 - 45% = 123 ( 102 reduction ) PBE: 245 - 35% = 159 ( 86 reduction )

#SORRY GUYS, MY MISTAKE, LAST WHISPER ONLY FACTOR IN BONUS ARMOR, NOT BASE ARMOR, LET'S DO THE MATH AGAIN.

225 - 65 = 160 AR 245 - 65 = 180 AR

OLD Lord Dominik's Regards VS Rammus

LIVE: 160 - 45% = 88 ( 72 reduction ) PBE: 180 - 35% = 117 ( 63 reduction )

#16 9 ARMOR IN EXCHANGE FOR 225 HP + THE FACT THAT ADC ARE DOING 5% MORE DAMAGE ON ME... NO, THANK YOU.

SOURCE: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/04/410-pbe-update.html http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

RalanrApr 10, 20172 votes

Mundo, Volibear, and Trundle aren't tanks though.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

#TRUNDLE FIGHTER/TANK

#VOLIBEAR FIGHTER/TANK

#DR. MUNDO FIGHTER/TANK

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/20140623/5056464/walking-dead-rick-cry-o.gif

SOURCE:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Trundle http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Mundo http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Volibear

RalanrApr 10, 20171 votes

Dude, if secondary classifications mattered, then Xerath and Malzahar would be assassins. They are not.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

Get educated.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

They are, in fact their kit is made to 1 shot you if you let them set up their combo.

Don't take my word to consideration, that's actually Meddler's opnion.

RalanrApr 10, 20171 votes

So what is the difference between mages and assassins then?

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20171 votes

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/20140623/5056464/walking-dead-rick-cry-o.gif

#MALZAHAR MAGE/ASSASSIN = He can assassinate you, but he need to set up his combo to do it and doesn't have mobility that it is a signature of main assassins like Rengar and Kha'zix.

#ANIVIA MAGE/CONTROLLER = She has a lot of burst, but can't normally 1 shot you with her combo, unless it is extremely ahead. Has the displacement abilities of a controller, like slow, can create walls and stuns.

#ASSASSINATE ON LEAGUE OF LEGENDS MEANS THE ENEMY CAN'T FIGHT BACK, YOU CAN KILL IT WITHOUT MUCH OF A RESISTENCE IF CAUGHT IN A 1V1.

SOURCE: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Malzahar http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Anivia

RalanrApr 11, 20171 votes

Battle Mages get into the middle of the fray, seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage. Due to their relatively short (but not melee) combat ranges and the need to burn down their opponents over time, Battle Mages have significant defensive capabilities that range from sustaining endlessly to literally defying death for a short period of time.

Battle Mages:Karthus Vladimir Ryze Swain Rumble Cassiopeia Aurelion Sol Gangplank (hybrid Skirmisher) Malzahar

Assassins specialize in infiltrating enemy lines with their unrivaled mobility to quickly dispatch high-priority targets. Due to their mostly melee nature, Assassins must put them themselves into dangerous positions in order to execute their targets. Luckily, they often have defensive tricks up their sleeves that, if used cleverly, allow them to effectively avoid incoming damage.

Assassins Zed Kha’zix Fizz LeBlanc Akali Talon Katarina Kassadin Shaco Rengar Nidalee (hybrid Artillery)

Riot made this a while ago. The secondary listings are pretty much out of date. Mundo isn't a tank, Malz isn't an assassin. Durability does not make a tank and combo burst does not make an assassin.

WiegrafOfValorApr 11, 20171 votes

The description you listed is for champions that are main of that class, while when you have it as a secondary you inherent some of it's advantages while not getting the define trait from that main class.

So.. Malz has the killing potential of a assassin without the mobility, Mundo it's a Tank without high resistances he has to rely on HP, same as Volibear. While Trundle it's as Tank as the enemy is, thanks to his ultimate.

RalanrApr 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The description you listed is for champions that are main of that class, while when you have it as a secondary you inherent some of it's advantages while not getting the define trait from that main class.

Except now those secondaries work as defining traits of other classes when they are prominent as they are. Mundo and Volibear's durability do not make them tanks, because their durability combined with damage and easily kitable forms makes them Juggernauts

Juggernauts are melee titans who relentlessly march down the opposition and devastate those foolish enough to get within their grasp. They are the only subclass who excel at both dealing and taking significant amounts of damage, but in turn they have a tough time closing in on targets due to their low range and extremely limited mobility.

That's basically Mundo. He sucks at getting close to people compared to actual tanks and is more of a damage threat than anything else. He goes in, hurts people, goes out to heal, then goes in again.

So.. Malz has the killing potential of a assassin without the mobility, Mundo it's a Tank without high resistances he has to rely on HP, same as Volibear. While Trundle it's as Tank as the enemy is, thanks to his ultimate.

Ok this really bugs me. Killing potential is not really what defines an assassin, it's escape potential after killing their target that defines an assassin. Zed Talon have great forms of escaping over say Malzahar or Syndra despite having similar damage outputs. It's not their damage, it's their way of playing.

HateDaddyApr 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Because Tanks are in a bad position, while ADC are stronger than ever.

TANKS:

45% WINRATE TOP 46% WINRATE TOP 46% WINRATE TOP 46.7% WINRATE TOP 48% WINRATE TOP 48% WINRATE TOP 48% WINRATE TOP 48.4% WINRATE TOP 48.7% WINRATE TOP 49.5% WINRATE TOP

THE ONLY TANK WITH POSITIVE WINRATE IS MALPHITE AP TOP (52.4%), THAT CAN'T BE EVEN COUNTED AS A TANK SINCE HE'S BUILDING OFFENSE TO STAY RELEVANT. THIS WITHOUT THE NERFS TO TANK ITEMS.

MEANWHILE...

, AND ARE ON THE TOP OF THE CHARTS

Let's stop pretending almost all of those tanks aren't played constantly competitively. And Munro, Volibear and arguably chogath aren't tanks.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20171 votes

They are played in competitive, because they have the synergy to make it work, they are not only PROS that live for that, they also are sit right next to each other.

So yeah, can't be compare to SOLOQ at all.

#EDIT:

#TRUNDLE FIGHTER/TANK

#VOLIBEAR FIGHTER/TANK

#DR. MUNDO FIGHTER/TANK

#CHO'GATH TANK/MAGE

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/20140623/5056464/walking-dead-rick-cry-o.gif

SOURCE:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Trundle http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Mundo http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Volibear http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Cho'Gath

The Last BalladApr 11, 20171 votes

Chogath isn't a tank

Chogath "able to get the highest amount of health in the game"

4NoxiousHoursApr 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Because Tanks are in a bad position, while ADC are stronger than ever.

TANKS:

45% WINRATE TOP 46% WINRATE TOP 46% WINRATE TOP 46.7% WINRATE TOP 48% WINRATE TOP 48% WINRATE TOP 48% WINRATE TOP 48.4% WINRATE TOP 48.7% WINRATE TOP 49.5% WINRATE TOP

THE ONLY TANK WITH POSITIVE WINRATE IS MALPHITE AP TOP (52.4%), THAT CAN'T BE EVEN COUNTED AS A TANK SINCE HE'S BUILDING OFFENSE TO STAY RELEVANT. THIS WITHOUT THE NERFS TO TANK ITEMS.

MEANWHILE...

, AND ARE ON THE TOP OF THE CHARTS

Voli isnt part of the tank he's part of the ignore list.

chipndip1Apr 11, 20171 votes

Poppy doesn't need no buffs...

GinoSoldierApr 10, 20172 votes

There's a whole lot of buffs there, but %pen just took a 20% hit too. That's significant. Just be glad carries are now geared to hurt tanks less, making them more necessary in return.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

Actually it's just 10%, and still with the increase of bonus armor % pen becomes more valuable.

GinoSoldierApr 10, 20171 votes

Technically 16%. Black cleaver lost 6%. That is still very much valuable. I did round up to 20 which isn't legit.

JalkanApr 10, 20172 votes

Who said it was a Tank Class update? It's clearly a Tank item update and an ADC item update.

hi im bannnedApr 11, 20172 votes

ya, im probably leaving the game until the update then, these changes are already stupid as it is. don't they realize theres too much damage in their game?

WiegrafOfValorApr 11, 20171 votes

Sad isn't it.. =(

Scary DoorApr 10, 20171 votes

Ahh, good old cherry picking, it's what the Boards does best. I guess you missed the part where armor pen just took a huge hit, from 45% to 35%... but hey, that extra 5 AD on Hydra... "OMG Broken".

Let's face it, we're going to be in tank meta big time soon, like it was very briefly at the beginning of Season 5 when top laners were taking Cinderhulk and you literally had at least 3 tanks every game.

Assassins, some mages (Cassi especially) and ADCs are going to see a huge hit from this. All those #ADCin2017 memes will be back in full force once this update goes live, take it to the bank.

WiegrafOfValorApr 10, 20172 votes

#HOW IT IS NOW

#Lord Dominik's Regards

Stats +50 attack damage

UNIQUE – LAST WHISPER: +45% bonus armor penetration.

#HOW IT WILL BE

#Lord Dominik's Regards PBE

Stats +50 attack damage

UNIQUE – LAST WHISPER: +35% bonus armor penetration.

Let's see how both go against LIVE and PBE Rammus building the same items.

LIVE Rammus LVL 10. - item 3143 item 3068 item 3742 -

HP: 1230 + 500 + 500 + 500 = 2730 AR: 65 + 60 + 50 + 50 = 225

PBE Rammus LVL 10. - item 3143 item 3068 item 3742 -

HP: 1230 + 425 + 425 + 425 = 2505 AR: 65 + 60 + 60 + 60 = 245

OLD Lord Dominik's Regards VS Rammus

LIVE: 225 - 45% = 123 ( 102 reduction ) PBE: 245 - 35% = 159 ( 86 reduction )

#SORRY GUYS, MY MISTAKE, LAST WHISPER ONLY FACTOR IN BONUS ARMOR, NOT BASE ARMOR, LET'S DO THE MATH AGAIN.

225 - 65 = 160 AR 245 - 65 = 180 AR

OLD Lord Dominik's Regards VS Rammus

LIVE: 160 - 45% = 88 ( 72 reduction ) PBE: 180 - 35% = 117 ( 63 reduction )

#16 9 ARMOR IN EXCHANGE FOR 225 HP + THE FACT THAT ADC ARE DOING 5% MORE DAMAGE ON ME... NO, THANK YOU.

SOURCE: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/04/410-pbe-update.html http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

Carl Grimes TWD1Apr 11, 20171 votes

I like how you put all the buffs and none of the nerfs. Mongrel.

WiegrafOfValorApr 11, 20171 votes

I can post all the nerfs AR items are getting..

While those items are losing 10% penetration, that isn't much, and maybe 10 magic damage from rapid fire, in exchange of it charging faster, so I don't think it isn't a nerf at all.

Carl Grimes TWD1Apr 11, 20171 votes

You're pretty dumb. Btw how are you putting EC gold increase as a buff. Lmfao. Typical Mongrel.

WiegrafOfValorApr 11, 20171 votes

EC nerf is a buff to adc since you can't counter their massive Lifesteal. I guess you're the genious here..

Carl Grimes TWD1Apr 11, 20171 votes

Lmao. On which champions do you build EC? Please enlighten me. Anything other than ADC's (and some melee carries situationally) and you're boosted af. You build EC vs heal/drain tanks such as Mundo, Swain, Vlad etc. Even vs Soraka, the opposing **ADC **gets an EC. Clearly you're some biased tank Mongrel.

LICENSED HOOKERApr 11, 20171 votes

Salty adc mains downvoting this thread

COLDSNOWKILLERApr 11, 20171 votes

BOLD PRINTING WORDS FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT!

But no, really, these changes aren't that bad. Odds are we get to see who becomes an abuse case and by the end of the first or second week someone or something is getting the nerf bat.

Easy come, easy go.