The problems with balance team is deeper than just some bad decisions, is actually

WiegrafOfValor·1/21/2018, 6:45:41 PM·136 votes·5,470 views

#Their philosophy...

That's the problem for me. If you pay attention more than just some buffs and nerfs, the way they think things should work makes no sense.

If you look at the "job" of the roles most of them make sense, with the exception of Marksmen being the tank buster, I'll try to make this as easier as possible to digest, so please just keep an open mind.

Marksmen should do a decent amount of physical damage within a constant frame of time, AKA: high DPS but low burst, that means an ADC having to kill a Tank should mean that it would take a long time to do so, unless riot adds so much damage that Marksmen are able to kill tanks fast, but that also means that they will kill everything else fast, meaning that assassins need to kill ADC even faster.

The ones that should be dealing with Tanks are actually Bruisers, and Marksmen "job" should be dealing with structures and objectives, while being very good at weakening the enemies that are stupid enough to be in their range.

#Why Bruisers should be the ones dealing with tanks?

First would make Top lane way healthier since you can pick a tank to scale late game, but you know you wouldn't stand a chance in lane against a bruiser, your plan would actually just try to survive and not feed the enemy while scrapping for farm (As toplane was back in season 1~3 if you pick a tank).

And most important, it would be healthier for the game if the tank busters were bruisers, mostly because they already are without even trying.

Have you ever see a Tryndamere Udyr Jax Darius Kled Aatrox Fiora RekSai Vi XinZhao Volibear Nasus Shyvana melting a Tank without it being able to do anything? Of course you have, because most of them can out sustain a tank, have means to pierce their defense or deal % max health. If you leave them alone with a tank they most definately will have the time of their lives.

Another thing that is good to point out is; Most Juggernauts have to "play their minigames" in order to access their damage potential, Darius needs to stack his passive, Illaoi needs to set her tentacles + hit her E, Volibear needs to stack his Frenzy, and so on. The easiest target you can have to unlock their damage is a tank, with their low mobility and high HP.

#If bruisers are so good at killing tanks, why they are losing top against tanks?

The reason is riot shoving damage everywhere, trying to push the idea of Marksmen are tank busters, that means everyone has a load of damage, but bruisers have to set their combos to do so, while a tank can out survive them while dealing a butt load of damage without any setup.

Plus bruisers have to build like carries today if they want to be impactful, that means they don't have time for tank busting items item 3153 item 3034 item 3035 item 3036 **with the exception of ** item 3071 , because it's the only bruiser item they can rely on, right now.

Another factor that contributes to this is the fact that tanks can burst squish champions faster than a bruiser with the luxury of getting out alive, while most bruisers would throw their combo on a carry and pray they don't survive, after that they either die happy they did something to maybe win the team fight, or die screaming on their screen while popping the death recap trying to understand how they died in 1.08 secs.


#TL;DR: MARKSMEN BEING THE ONE TO DEAL WITH TANKS CREATE A CYCLE THAT AFFECTS ALL OTHER CLASSES IN A HARMFUL WAY, AND IN MY OPINION, THE LIVE BALANCE TEAM SHOULD GIVE THIS JOB TO BRUISERS, SO YOU NOW HAVE A HEALTHIER WAY TO DEAL WITH TANKS PLUS SOMETHING THAT BRUISERS EXCEL AT.


132 Comments

Tychusfindlay9181/21/2018, 7:53:11 PM44 votes

the logic is sound, but would require a massive rework of the critical mechanic

GigglesO1/22/2018, 12:02:30 AM20 votes

Tanks shouldn't be killing things, they should just be really beefy... That is the real problem.

LVL99 Helper TK1/21/2018, 10:27:43 PM13 votes

Riot is on a suicide mission. Watch them continue to ignore the majority of their player-base. It's clear people are quitting the game en mass. Very sad.

Skorch1/21/2018, 10:39:08 PM7 votes

Finally an actual ADC discussion thread that isnt "Remove them"

The points are also quite valid, I never did understand why ADCs are the ones to kill tanks when in order to do that their damage needs to be insane.

flibitydoo1/21/2018, 7:47:19 PM6 votes

Haven't bruisers always had good tank destroying tools? Fiora with her % true damage, irelia with her true damage, camille with her % damage, renekton with his early game pressure, darius with his early game pressure (and also % armour pen), jarvan with his armour shred, wukong with his armour shred, trundle with his stat stealing, jax with his hybrid damage. A lot of others build items like bork or have innate % health dmg or % armour shred. And also rumble who builds liandries naturally.

the problem, is that after 30 mins when all fights are "group up as 5, stay in formation and fight the enemy who has done the same", a bruiser is a lot worse of a frontline than a cc tank. And riot's been trying to make the game "fairer" for tanks by actually letting them survive laning phase instead of getting smashed in lane to the point of irrelevancy.

my personal problem with the balance team, is every single damn time

they mention the word radar.

it makes me so mad.

you should not balance the game around a "radar".

The game will never, ever, ever be balanced if you only balance a handful of champions. Because then only a handful of champions are every going to be relevant or balanced.

they need to hit every champion and look at everyone together in order to truly get everyone on the same power level and viability. Then and only then are we going to see diversity and feel like the game is balanced.

Siyther1/21/2018, 7:27:26 PM5 votes

1.so adc would do no damage to anyone only towers and obj that would kill the role no one plays adc to kill towers and dragons my friend. 2.If they buffed brusiers or made them fuction in this way why would anyone play an adc when brusiers would do a better job 3.Brusiers already are hard for low elo to deal with as adc or squishy mage.

i do agrree that adc damage is to front loaded into burst but right now so is every champ ijn the game thanks to new runes i Also think that they should push for item 3094 anditem 3087 to be unique again. Almost every game i lose is because of one of your brusiers shitting on their lane and then destroying my entire team. Adc being like this is a "flaw" in the game itself but this late in its life i dont think it can or should be changed to such an extreme.

AirKingNeo1/21/2018, 11:54:27 PM5 votes

You also forget that if Bruisers are supposed to out sustain tanks, why does Bramble Vest exist?

FNC Jinx1/22/2018, 2:51:44 PM5 votes

OMG I LOVE YOU

Finally a post that mirrors how I feel. I've been trying to rise awareness on this subject on how currently Tanks force the ADC class to be as strong/important as it is, except you were far more tactful than I've been in all of my posts.

You're very brave too. The Boards is a Tank-Loving place, where they're always insanely under powered and always victims of the meta, are very healthy and always in need of buffs.

Thank you for this post, and my most heartfelt up vote. It's time for Tanks to be held accountable for the current state of the game. The ADC situation is only a symptom. The problem is the Tanks... who just got buffed recently btw

Kingdom Corn1/22/2018, 5:36:23 AM3 votes

when fucking Ornn can build literally only tank items, but then out damage and out burst every fucking top laner you know there is something wrong.

Oxyrotten1/22/2018, 12:09:03 AM3 votes

I find it funny that the community can identify the problem but the balance team is still blind to it.

Or are they just refusing to address it? Every mention I hear still leaves out the issue with bruisers and only wants to address the problem's with adc's.

koshkyra1/22/2018, 3:57:38 AM2 votes

ADCs shouldnt have fucking shiv and RFC, and they shouldnt be allowed to buy duskblade.

"Lets give the class that isnt supposed to burst some burst items! Yay!!!!1!1!1!1!1"

The Bad Touch1/23/2018, 12:43:46 AM2 votes

The fact is everyone From Bronze 4 to Challenger knows what is wrong with the game. A good 10% of which could balance the numbers on every single champion in the game in 2-3 months of work... solo.

How the hell Riot employee's making as much as they are can't manage that.. I have no idea. I would love their job.

Hell I'd do it for free just to have the game be more fun.

ADC's still get played in a world they are less OP. Just look at seasons 2/3. Tanks still get played in a world where non tank tops are placed. See every single season. Tanks should not be able to 1v1 people. Neither should supports. Their job is to enable their team. Not chunk off 70% of a carries HP with a qwer faceroll.

My favorite seasons were 2 and 5. Everything just felt right. Build diversity was high, and games had a more reasonable length of ~35-40 minutes.