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Invisibility and the Concept of A "Response"

Stróc Dúnmharú·6/26/2017, 9:23:28 AM·2 votes·440 views

So, am I the only person who thinks that invisibility in a multi-player game is an inherently obnoxious?

Camouflage is kind of annoying when champions can gap close out of it (Rengar with his leap, Evelynn with her E for high move speed), but Invisibility is worse because there isn't a response to it. There's a response to life steal and healing (grievous wounds), there's a response to stacking defenses (penetration and shreds), there's several different responses to burst damage (Zhonya's, Banshee's, Guardian Angel, being a tank). Now, some people will suggest that true sight granted by champions like Lee Sin, Twisted Fate, Lulu and the like, counter invisibility.

That true, they COUNTER it. That's not a response.

A "response", in this case, is something that any champion and player can do DURING the game, not before it. A counter is something that is always effective, and usually happens before the game starts in champion select. Lissandra theoretically counters Zed because her ult makes her immune to his burst damage. But that's a choice you have to make in champ select.

Zhonya's is a response, because ANY AP champion can use it. Guardian angel is a response because ANY AD champion can use it. Not everyone can counter something, not everyone can outplay something (go ahead, Varus, you outplay that TF Gold Card), but everyone can respond to something (good call Varus, grabbing a QSS).

So, what is the response to Invisibility? How do I respond when Shaco poofs away and I can't keep hitting him and he gets to come out of stealth with damage that I can't react to? How do I respond when Wukong stops moving suddenly, and I can't hit him with my CC or my damage and don't know where his ult is going to come from? How do I respond when Akali vanishes to wait for her cooldowns right before I kill her, and then pops up again and out heals my burst? How do I respond when Kha'Zix fades into nothing and I don't know which way to run to avoid being isolated?

This bring be around to my point. Pink Wards. When they revealed Invisible champions, you could respond. Maybe they were too expensive? Well, since there's a completed item to respond to everything, how about Riot gives us an item that let's us respond to Invisibility? Preferably not a damage item, since it would be a little unfair to only let either AD or AP champions have it. So maybe an item that builds out of Aegis? Or builds out of Giant's Belt? It could have an active effect that give true sight of nearby enemies for 5 seconds or something like that. You know, to allow you to actually fight them properly.

You may now proceed to down vote me.

TL;DR a counter and a response are not the same thing, there is no response against Invisibility, Riot should make an item that gives something like temporary true sight.

4 Comments

Eratos6/26/2017, 10:07:08 AM2 votes

Vayne broken..i mean ppl say shit early game well..Gangplank have shitty early game too still nerfed. Vayne dmg is insane and a good vayne using ultimate well*[zombie-brand-clap]* ...eh well amen.

Yaśuo Main6/26/2017, 9:52:25 AM1 votes

Well, Shaco has a poof where he was before he Q's, so that kind of defeats

So, what is the response to Invisibility? How do I respond when Shaco poofs away and I can't keep hitting him and he gets to come out of stealth with damage that I can't react to?

because that is a sign of "run away"

SirTeemoMushroom6/26/2017, 10:02:15 AM1 votes

some champions have invisibility abilities because they lack on something else . so they need to defend them selves

Stróc Dúnmharú6/27/2017, 5:46:49 AM1 votes

@Yaśuo Main Running away is theoretically a defense against everything. The problem is that Shaco and blink in any direction he wants while that poof of smoke pops up. What direction should I run in? Remember that if I turn my back on him he'll get bonus damage, and he's among the fastest champion in the game, so to "run away" is about a 50/50 chance I increase the damage he does to me for the Shaco player. The only thing the little orange smoke cloud does is let you know that Shaco used his invisibility, just the same as when Akali throws down a shroud or when Talon leaves a big circle of blades around the spot he vanished.

The fact that the game shows you an ability was used doesn't make that ability balanced. You can SEE that Kassadin has used his ultimate to jump, because you see him jump, but Riot still nerfed the range on it. Having an indicator that says "hey, you are about to die" does not provide an opportunity to fight back in and of itself. You need to actually be able to hit your enemy to do that.

@SirTeemoMushroom But what do they lack, and is what they lack something they should even have in the first place? Using invisibility as an escape tool is one thing, but using invisibility to just make yourself impossible to fight back against is entirely slapping the notion of "interactive game play" in the face. Also, none of the "Invisibility" abilities in the game are used primarily for defense anyway.

Vayne games bonus damage on her next auto, and can often get into position to nail you to a wall. Wukong's clone deals damage (a small amount, but if you're squishy that might be enough to zone you away) and it is used more often in ganks/roams so that you don't seem him enter your lane in the first place. Shaco primarily uses it to gank over walls or get behind you. Talon uses it to get onto your squishy team mates and one shot them. Teemo get's bonus attack speed and, during laning phase, full control of the bushes in top lane because you can't hit him until he decides to hit you first, inherently giving him an advantage when being the aggressor. Kha'Zix get's to proc his passive for additional damage for each use of his ult, and get's to ignore unit collision while gaining move speed so you often can never catch him but he can catch you. Akali get's to wait for her cooldowns to come up and energy to regen after a fight starts, allowing her to combo you and then combo you again without you being able to properly hit her back.

The defensive applications of Invisibility in League would be perfectly reasonable if it didn't remove the ability to, you know, actually fight. If you could do something about it. Thet removed Pink Wards from being able to reveal invisible champions, but were champions who used invisibility universally under performing? No. Hell, there were times when Kha'Zix was the highest priority jungler in pro play, and that was in a time when Pick Wards would reveal him during his invisibility! Invisibility doesn't just automatically come at the expense of something else to the point of making a champion useless once they are detected. So now, if the last pick on the other team has Invisibility in their kit, and no one on your team has true sight, well congratulations, you better hope that player is bad.

Really, is asking for an item to help combat champions going invisible asking too much? We have items that combat everything else in the game. Why does the gimmick of being invisible get the special treatment of having no answer available across all other champions?