There is no way to abuse loss forgiven for afk if the other left for over ten minutes

Qiyana Ixaocan·Jan 24, 2020·1 votes·1,248 views

It would be too easy to track if your duo is always going afk when the game looks bad for you.

Yes either team can have an afk and if you don't afk you only have 4 people who might afk. THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT NEITHER TEAM DESERVES TO LOSE BECAUSE OF AFKS.

No it wont mess with mmr or ranks. If you win the game you get points but you definitely do not deserve to lose points or mmr just because the enemy has an afk. You didn't lose because you played you lost because you had less numbers. You can also make it so that game doesn't count for the winners or losers and simply compensate them for the time they spent by giving everyone 100 blue essence, 50 orange essence, a key fragment, a loot box, etc.

There's already trackers seeing if you sit in spawn so just adapt them to see when you refuse to group and aren't split pushing.

10 Comments

Cind3rkickJan 24, 20205 votes

But it would be abused.

People would try to pressure others into leaving the game when things are looking bad. Loss prevented also adds Lp to the league, which could result in inflation of ranks.

Qiyana IxaocanJan 24, 20201 votes

{quoted}

But it would be abused.

People would try to pressure others into leaving the game when things are looking bad. Loss prevented also adds Lp to the league, which could result in inflation of ranks.

Mute exists. People tell people to leave already if you actually leave cause someone tells you to you are at fault. Plus the person telling you to leave then has to hold out for 10 more minutes.

No it just doesn't remove lp. There's also the option of simply nullifying the game and making it so that the winners get compensated with say 100 orange essence and the losers 50 blue essence. Making the entire thing a normal match.

Cind3rkickJan 24, 20202 votes

[{quoted}](name=Qiyana Ixaocan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpdTyLt3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-24T10:59:06.657+0000)

Mute exists. People tell people to leave already if you actually leave cause someone tells you to you are at fault. Plus the person telling you to leave then has to hold out for 10 more minutes.

No it just doesn't remove lp. There's also the option of simply nullifying the game and making it so that the winners get compensated with say 100 orange essence and the losers 50 blue essence. Making the entire thing a normal match.

Mute exists. So what? Are you also now saying that people shouldnt be banned for toxicity?

Muting isnt the only way to make people quit either. Why not just let a couple of roams accidentally go wrong and int someones laner ever more so they do quit?

Now you are telling me that if someone leaves a game, I dont even get my lp? Why do I get punished for winning my lane so much that I completely tilt the enemy? Or because an enemy player doesnt like me and decided I dont deserve to climb and they want to waste my 40 minutes? Sure i wouldnt mind if I got a skin from it. But 100 OE is nothing to me and alot of the community. If i work my ass off to get Lp then I expect to get Lp. Not a useless virtual currency.

Qiyana IxaocanJan 27, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Mute exists. So what? Are you also now saying that people shouldnt be banned for toxicity?

Muting isnt the only way to make people quit either. Why not just let a couple of roams accidentally go wrong and int someones laner ever more so they do quit?

Now you are telling me that if someone leaves a game, I dont even get my lp? Why do I get punished for winning my lane so much that I completely tilt the enemy? Or because an enemy player doesnt like me and decided I dont deserve to climb and they want to waste my 40 minutes? Sure i wouldnt mind if I got a skin from it. But 100 OE is nothing to me and alot of the community. If i work my ass off to get Lp then I expect to get Lp. Not a useless virtual currency.

Toxicity in this game is not toxicity for the most part. Unless someone is using hate speech or telling people to hurt themselves then no they aren't toxic. Toxicty is someone who is either constantly flaming or using hate speech if someone merely says wtf was that what the hell is wrong with you after you do something immensely stupid or you screwed someone elses lane up and they got frustrated for a second then they absolutely are not toxic. But riot punishes em anyways because they think the game is filled with babies who need to be coddled cause omg you questioned me im offended boohoo ban them. At that point the person reporting the one got upset and wrote a sentence or two then calmed down is the toxic one. If you screw up and it impacts someone else that person has a right to be upset the game isnt played by robots but people. If you walked on someone foot accidently and kept going without saying anything and that person says wtf is wrong with you watch youre going asshole do you suddenly think you are in the right because they said mean words to you?

Why would anybody leave a game cause they got muted? If yopu constantly tell people to leave the games oversensitive perma ban for nothing bot will catch them its not an argument and never has been if you are such a toddler you cant handle mean words or clicking the mute button then you dont need to play a pvp game in the first place.

You wouldnt get lp if they left on your team anyways. But why should the other team lose lp just cause you had an unfair advantage? You deserve to go up in lp or mmr just because you had an unfair advantage. You didnt prove you belong higher by winning a game you have to belong 12 divisions lower to lose.

If you make someone rq then end the game within ten minutes. Seems easy enough to me with a numbers advantage force a teamfight grab baron and end the game. if you cant do that the game wasnt a guarenteed win for you and you didnt earn it.

DuskDaUmbreonJan 24, 20203 votes

No it wont mess with mmr or ranks. If you win the game you get points but you definitely do not deserve to lose points or mmr just because the enemy has an afk.

So...It will mess with ranks, because you're creating LP out of thin air at that point.

Either it won't mess with ranks because the system is LP-neutral, or it will because you've made it LP-positive.

You can also make it so that game doesn't count for the winners or losers and simply compensate them for the time they spent by giving everyone 100 blue essence, 50 orange essence, a key fragment, a loot box, etc.

I'd be hella pissed if I was winning, someone AFK'd, and all I got was some fucking essence. I'd want my fucking LP that I earned by winning lane hard enough for my opponent to RQ.

Also, any system that did that would be abusable, even with that duo detection. Make several throwaway accounts and duo with them. Have the throwaway AFK when it goes poorly, and, then queue with a different throwaway. You could likely boost yourself up several divisions above your actual skill that way. Have the duo not AFK on a loss occasionally to make it less suspicious.

There. It's not foolproof, but it is fairly solid. Took me all of 5 minutes to think that up. It could probably be improved by someone who wasn't hungry and tired.

Glory97Jan 24, 20201 votes

The thing is, the mmr system works, because one team always gains mmr and the other team looses mmr. The average mmr-level across all players stays the same over time. But if you introduce a system where afk-games give one team mmr and the other team doesn't loose any, the average mmr across all players will increase over time. This would be a terrible thing for any ranking system.

Qiyana IxaocanJan 27, 20201 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, the mmr system works, because one team always gains mmr and the other team looses mmr. The average mmr-level across all players stays the same over time. But if you introduce a system where afk-games give one team mmr and the other team doesn't loose any, the average mmr across all players will increase over time. This would be a terrible thing for any ranking system.

No mmr doesn't work in this case because its removing or adding mmr for games that aren't real games. If you have an advantage and win because of it simply because your team is a full team and the enemy is not you don't deserve to go up in mmr and the enemy certainly did not deserve to go down. It lowers morale and the actual ability to properly play when you have an afk. You wouldn't see a real sport have this kind of problem but if an accident happened they would postpone the game to make sure the game as a whole wasn't a joke that had undeserving teams advance in the brackets.

Posui GartJan 24, 20201 votes

There is no way to abuse loss forgiven for afk

Yes, because there isn't any "loss forgiven" mechanics, and will never be unless someone invents a mind-reading device

You didn't lose because you played you lost because you had less numbers

By that logic if we lost because an ADC decided to facecheck Nashor, its also not because I played badly, so I deserve loss forgiven, right? If we lost because jungler smited scuttle and had smite on cd when we took elder so enemies stole it, did 4 other people deserve to lose?

You either win as 5 and get lp or lose as 5 and lose lp, thats how it works. No matter what your allies did. Imagine if in Worlds finals, with 2-2 current score and team X losing, one of team X players ragequit and walked away, his team loses but everyone is "well they played 4v5, lets forgive them this loss, its still 2-2"

Qiyana IxaocanJan 28, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpdTyLt3,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2020-01-24T15:37:54.499+0000)

Yes, because there isn't any "loss forgiven" mechanics, and will never be unless someone invents a mind-reading device

By that logic if we lost because an ADC decided to facecheck Nashor, its also not because I played badly, so I deserve loss forgiven, right? If we lost because jungler smited scuttle and had smite on cd when we took elder so enemies stole it, did 4 other people deserve to lose?

You either win as 5 and get lp or lose as 5 and lose lp, thats how it works. No matter what your allies did. Imagine if in Worlds finals, with 2-2 current score and team X losing, one of team X players ragequit and walked away, his team loses but everyone is "well they played 4v5, lets forgive them this loss, its still 2-2"

No it isnt possible to abuse you dont need to know what motives made someone leave, them leaving is a game changing disadvantage for their team and advantage for the other team.

No if your teamate is there and does soemthing stupid thats still 5 people. Theres always stupid choices and lapses in judgement.

You either won as five against five and proved you deserved to go up, or you won as five vs less than five and proved you need a gimped enemy team to matter. Is there gonna be games where you where going to win 5v 5 and they managed to hold out for ten minutes regardless, yes, but thats why i initially said that the winning team should be rewarded but the losing team not punished. Its better a false positive than a false negative. Losing a team member does not just have the disadvantage of having less numbers. It distracts you and lowers your teams morale.

You would have a point if this was a rare thing that happens instead of something anyone who plays 10 games a day has a high chance of seeing a minimum of 2 of. This is a big enough problem that it needs a solution.

Posui GartJan 28, 20201 votes

you dont need to know what motives made someone leave

But I do. If someone left to abuse LP loss, its quite different from someone leaving because of connection problems

your teamate is there and does soemthing stupid thats still 5 people

I would argue that 0-10 ally is worse than no ally. Numbers aren't absolute in this game

You either won as five against five and proved you deserved to go up, or you won as five vs less than five and proved you need a gimped enemy team to matter

"You deserve to go up" isn't decided in one game.

the winning team should be rewarded but the losing team not punished

Total LP should stay the same, so if we forgive 4 players from losing lp, we should either punish the leaver himself for the total lp loss prevented(which will make leave abuse slightly harder to do but will also kill ranked for quite a lot of players) or deduct LP from winners

Losing a team member does not just have the disadvantage of having less numbers. It distracts you and lowers your teams morale.

So does giving up first blood. Or first tower. Or having a dragon/herald/nashor stolen. Or "Enemy is legendary" when you just picked up lvl8. Forget it, a surrender vote in a slightly behind game already distracts people and lowers team morale.

You would have a point if this was a rare thing that happens instead of something anyone who plays 10 games a day has a high chance of seeing a minimum of 2 of

Losing botlane is not a rare thing, it happens in 50% of games, it lowers morale and is really hard to comeback from. Should we forgive LP loss for this?

Leaving/AFK is not really different from any other shit your teammates can do. Its worse than feeding 1 death, sure, but even 1 death can instalose game.