Bork over BT

hsumis1ove·Jan 5, 2016·1 votes·799 views

Can someone do the math and/or make a video showing bork vs bt damage? i can see the bork damage on vayne on her w procs, but what about bt. Also why do people play kalista when so many other adcs are stronger?

27 Comments

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

Well first off, some champs are just more fun to certain people. Kalista isnt weak, she just takes a skilled individual to make her shine. Right now i'd just buy BT, botrk got nerfed pretty hard. You could just get item 3036 if someone is stacking HP..

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

ok thx. Kalista just seems weak compared to vayne right now.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

Shes got a bit of a learning curve, and a lot of lower elo players dont utilize all her assets. Not saying Vayne is easy. Its very easy to become weak on an auto attack reliant champion.

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

what else is there to learn about Kalista? i got her today and went 20 and 2 first game. I just need better w placement but thats it.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

Not saying you cant do well on her as a rookie mate. Generally a lot of ppl fall on their faces in tight situations, whether it be holding onto E too long or what have you.

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

I was just wondering what secret tips are there to kalista that only kalista mains know other than wall jumping.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

If you are using TP you can ult an ally then TP to another turret and bring him with xD

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

LOL

BonipherusJan 5, 20161 votes

get botrk on champs that auto attack more than they use abilities over bloodthirster any day of the week. unless you need the shield to not get bursted by some poke or assassin. botrk has 3 damage multipliers compared to bloodthirsters 1 which makes it a better choice for auto attack focused marksmen. the passive damage will grant more damage when they have roughly 1300 or more current health but don't underestimate the attack speed you pass up when getting bloodthirster as your dps will be much lower in comparison.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

Draven ??? xD

BonipherusJan 5, 20161 votes

you know draven is different due to his 85% ad increase.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

I think BT is still better on the current patch in most situations.. I mean even vayne neglects that shit, i think kalista might be the only ADC that actually still builds it regularly. Could be wrong though..

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

Proxii is saying bork is back after shiv plus firecannon nerfs. I've been trying it and it delays ur power spike a little, but it helps u kill that one mundo who just won't die.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

I mean its still going to kill hp stackers faster, thats its intended use. So by all means get botrk. Its just not a favored item atm, esp on most ADCs. I forgot about Kog, i bet hes another common user of botrk xD

BonipherusJan 5, 20161 votes

Just because people don't build it doesn't mean it isn't strong. Botrk gives way more dps on almost all aa-focused marksmen when compared to bt. Bt is a better defensive choice but when comparing dps from auto attacks, botrk is just the superior option.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

I dont think items should ever be compared 1 by 1, but with the consideration of other items in the game. And currently its not doing so hot. I still build botrk, i like the item, good sticking power, attack speed etc.. But in most ADC builds these days, you are going to see BT. (and it was that way even before botrk got nerfed) Now that it is nerfed, even ppl you saw build it regularly (vayne) think twice about it.

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

Forgot about him. He shreds people too. Vayne just has the w procs and stealth.

Dominick DestineJan 5, 20161 votes

Kallista offers several major advantages compared to Vayne... the ability to deny the enemy team a kill with her ult is a big draw. Initiation with said ult is another benefit she has over Vayne.

Kallista's AoE potential is also a big draw, remember that Vayne is the only ADC in the entire game that has zero innate AoE potential and is 100% single target.... I'd say Vayne is doing better than Kallista right now but that's only because the metagame heavily favors tank-busters at the moment of which Vayne is the undisputed champion now that Kog has been nerfed.

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

That's a good point, but why not go mf instead for aoe?

Dominick DestineJan 5, 20161 votes

Right now MF is slightly overpowered so there is no reason to pick any ADC over MF.... once MF is nerfed slightly, the reason for Kallista over MF is because MF is incredibly more vulnerable than Kallista. Kallista is slippery , very good at kiting and has great self-peel.

Kallista is also much better for objective control (Last hit nashor, last hit dragon, etc.). But none of this matters while MF is in her current state, she just overshadows all other ADCs right now...

Also keep in mind MF is the worst duelist of all ADCs by a huge margin.

disregardableJan 5, 20161 votes

The only situation I'd get bork over bt is if I'm very fed AND the only champion on their team that's not useless is a tank. If they have a Vladimir or any other high damage champion that's doing decently, you get BT. If you are not fed, you get BT. It's not really effective as a last whisper replacement either, unless they have absolutely no armor. It's acceptable to get the Bork as a last item when you wouldn't benefit much from Scimitar's active, but you'd need to have a reason to get the health shred over a second crit item as well.

ParoeJan 5, 20161 votes

Uh... well.... assuming 0.5attack speed... 0.70 attack speed. 25. 10% lifesteal. Over 10 seconds this equals 175 damage, 17.5HP healed. 0.50 attack speed, 75AD, 20% lifesteal. Over ten seconds this equals 375 damage. 18.75 healed.

Heal is comparable; theyre similar enough and have different uses for different champions. BT is an AD heavy item that favors strong scaling champions where botrk is a heavy attack speed item that favors fast auto attackers.

AsphodelNextJan 5, 20161 votes

BotRK: +25 AD +40% AS +10% lifesteal, 6% current health damage on hit, 10% maximum health damage and move speed steal on active BT: +75 AD +20% lifesteal, shield for overhealing

For raw damage, BotRK is clearly better. It's only 50 AD less, but the passive deals 50 damage when your target has 833 health left(more health left=>BotRK gets even better). It's also 300 gold cheaper and grants attack speed, increasing your damage even further.

Why get BT then? Well, the extra 50 AD increases the damage of your abilities, which is why you see AD assassins build it. In particular, anyone with an extra AD ratio on autoattacks(Draven, Ashe, MF passive, etc.) gets more out of BT than normal. For Draven, with the 1.85 multiplier, the target needs to have 1541 health left for the passive on BotRK to equal the extra damage 50 AD gets you. And since AS on Draven isn't that good after a certain point, he normally gets BT.

hsumis1oveJan 5, 20161 votes

Also is tank vayne viable? Her w and ult already do a lot of damage, so something like a bork or bt and then an attack speed item then the rest tankiness. This might let you play some kind of an assassin vayne and let u survive ur ult, tumble dive on the enemy adc.

DreadlocksJan 5, 20161 votes

If you are going Vayne top, yeah oddly enough it works quite well. I use to do it here and there for fun: item 3153 item 3047 item 3022 item 3742 item 3065 item 3156

YumaS2AstralJan 5, 20161 votes

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Also is tank vayne viable? Her w and ult already do a lot of damage, so something like a bork or bt and then an attack speed item then the rest tankiness. This might let you play some kind of an assassin vayne and let u survive ur ult, tumble dive on the enemy adc.

I've seen some people playing tank Vayne. And it is honestly not that amazing. You rely too much on her Silver Bolts to do damage, Not to mention, with her amount of safety and mobility, why go for tankyness, when going for damage lets you kill people much faster?

If you are concerned about survivability, built BotRK + Bloodthisther. The amount of lifesteal is insane and makes trading with Vayne impossible. Unless you are capable of directly bursting her down in less than 2 seconds, she will just heal everything back and your efforts are wasted.

BluePolarizerJan 5, 20161 votes

Mathematically BoRK does more damage almost all the time. However BT gives survivability, and ADCs typically have enough damage at the point they buy BT.