Ward jumping is now removed

Lord Macaroni·Jan 4, 2015·37 votes·5,018 views

And nobody complains about

106 Comments

DJ SiamakJan 4, 201520 votes

He'd be garbage if that happened.

DWT12345Jan 4, 201530 votes

So? Im tired of him. If he becomes as bad as zac, i woulden't care.

Joe DreddJan 4, 201524 votes

And this is the problem with all you anti-Lee circlejerkers. You don't want him to be balanced, you want him to be the shittest of shit tier, and until you get rid of that stupid mentality no one outside of your circlejerk will care about your opinion. That's why Riot refuses to make any posts about Lee Sin. Also, if you paid fucking attention to what actually happens in game, you'd notice Lee Sin isn't even that good right now.

ImHerVoiceJan 4, 201534 votes

now you know how us eve/diana/riven/skarner/cass players felt lmfao.

Joe DreddJan 4, 20159 votes

I don't think Skarner and Cass nerfs were begged for, or at least I don't remember them.

Tapu FiniJan 5, 20157 votes

Because they weren't.

NarasimhaJan 4, 20154 votes

Why the hell is Diana on that list?

DecaedeusJan 4, 201510 votes

V3.7:

Moonsilver Blade
    Damage reduced to 20/25/30/35/40/50/60/70/80/90/105/120/135/155/175/200/225/250 (+0.6 ability power) from 20/25/30/40/50/65/80/95/110/125/140/155/175/195/215/240/265/290 (+0.6 ability power).
    Range of the cleave behind Diana reduced. 
Pale Cascade
    Total damage changed to 66/102/138/174/210 from 60/105/150/195/240.
    Shield reduced to 40/55/70/85/100 (+0.3 ability power) from 55/80/105/130/155 (+0.45 ability power).

SexyTaylorSwiftJan 5, 20151 votes

Don't forget Fiddles!! The only people begging for his nerfs were ones that never even played him.

ImHerVoiceJan 5, 20154 votes

actually I was one of the people who absolutely hated fiddle's fear.

because the max rank fear + high cdr is 6 seconds or less LOL was disgusting @.@ rest of his kit is fine. The silence is broken in a 2v2 situation but it does have counterplay since you can just spread out.

HibekiJan 4, 201514 votes

You are right, I don't want him balanced.

No, lee sin is fucking amazing right now.

I don't want him balance because he's ruled this game since released, same with nidalee, i want them both removed/nerfed to the point where they are never played again.

Joe DreddJan 5, 20156 votes

Fucking amazing? Do you see his win rate? Oh yea that's a free win. No, he's not even fucking good in solo queue. You bitches bitch about LC$BIGPLAYS and say Lee is OP because Riot wants more plays, but are you challenger? Are you in the LCS? If not, your team lacks the huge amount of coordination that is required for Lee to truly be strong, hence his low win rate in solo queue.

HibekiJan 5, 20154 votes

You realize over 2 thirds of the population is bronze and silver. Most of these people have no idea how to play anyone to their fullest potential, so winrate doesnt mean SHIT.

Joe DreddJan 5, 20157 votes

You realize his win rate is always between 45-47%, no matter what elo you go to? I'm pretty sure diamonds do know how to play people to their fullest potential, so their winrate does mean SHIT.

Sightless66Jan 5, 20153 votes

That isn't a good argument. His winrate does not improve at higher elos. Just because he may have a skill floor doesn't mean that Platinum and Diamond players magically know how to play him. They have to play him better in order to respond to their opponent's increased skill.

I agree with your overall sentiment that his winrate is not a good measure to determine his strength, but it is not because bronze and silver players are dragging it down.

FiskJan 5, 20152 votes

Lee Sin, isn't even that over powered. He has a strong early game and transitions maybe a tiiiiny little bit to well into late game. Frankly I've seen j4's carry harder when they get fed. Sure Lee has nice room to outplay and good damage early from grabbing lw+hydra but a. you have to be able to outplay everyone which means you have to usually be better than those around you and b. if he doesn't get fed (really not that hard not to feed him like come on, hes not like shaco if you ward well around you, you will be fine) he's basically a bruiser that gets somewhat tanky late game. He's never gonna get as tanky as other champions and he is never gonna have as much damage as other champions unless he is incredibly fed. Most people here don't actually understand what needs to be nerfed about him they just lost to him once and now say riot nerf lee sin gg wp. No the only thing that needs to be nerfed is his kit. His numbers are actually perfectly balanced, he just doesn't have much counterplay (no this doesn't make him op it just means that he will perform consistently aka why he is picked in lcs). Simply slowing the speed of his first and second Q so you could outplay it or making his abilities cost more energy so he has to manage his resources better would balance him. Seriously no more circle jerking and be a-holes to everyone. We are getting sick of it.

DiostukosJan 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You are right, I don't want him balanced.

No, lee sin is fucking amazing right now.

I don't want him balance because he's ruled this game since released, same with nidalee, i want them both removed/nerfed to the point where they are never played again.

Why the hate for Nid? ._.

She's pretty niche atm, and can't bully her lane opponent whatsoever, what with having some of the lowest base ad in the game.

Sightless66Jan 5, 20151 votes

Memory of what she was and what she promises to be if ever strong again is enough for the hatred to last forever.

HibekiJan 6, 20151 votes

Panther at level 1.

Has escapes at level 2 instead of level 6.

Double jump range and a reset if you are hit by her 500+ damage spears or traps.

Absurd damage on panther Q

Still has high healing on E and still has attack speed ratio.

Mark isn't consumed, ever, she gets everything empowered.

DiostukosJan 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Panther at level 1.

Has escapes at level 2 instead of level 6.

Double jump range and a reset if you are hit by her 500+ damage spears or traps.

Absurd damage on panther Q

Still has high healing on E and still has attack speed ratio.

Mark isn't consumed, ever, she gets everything empowered.

Why shouldn't she get Panther level 1 if other transforming champs do?

Are her spears somehow point and click now? You won't get hit by them, or you shouldn't, during laning phase, and if you do well that's your problem. Her heal has a good ratio, yes, but AP Nid doesn't max it first; AD Nid does, but then she'll be oom faster, and will usually have to take tp, meaning less kill potential during laning phase.

HibekiJan 6, 20151 votes

Because her kit was created around the fact that you get it at level 6

AlphariteJan 5, 20151 votes

Nidalee was gutted.....

NoFunWithNunuJan 4, 20155 votes

{quoted}

And this is the problem with all you anti-Lee circlejerkers. You don't want him to be balanced, you want him to be the shittest of shit tier, and until you get rid of that stupid mentality no one outside of your circlejerk will care about your opinion. That's why Riot refuses to make any posts about Lee Sin. Also, if you paid fucking attention to what actually happens in game, you'd notice Lee Sin isn't even that good right now.

a champ who remains viable for several seasons while others like aint viable for shit, mean they have something to be looked

Joe DreddJan 5, 20152 votes

ahri annie Blitz Brand Caitlyn Corki Draven Ezreal Fiora Graves Irelia janna Jarvan Kennen Leona Malzahar Morgana Nasus Renekton Pantheon Nami Rammus Riven Sona Swain Syndra Thresh Orianna Twitch Vayne Vi Wukong Zyra Zed yes all these champions need to be nerfed.

NoFunWithNunuJan 5, 20151 votes

70% of that list havent seen a good season in years for example kennen the only moment when he was reliable was back then in season 1 also when he was used as adc, besides that, who plays kennen or find a really easy matchup as kennen nowdays?

Joe DreddJan 5, 20152 votes

Popularity is not equal to viability.

NoFunWithNunuJan 5, 20151 votes

popularity reflects at some point the viability, for example poppy or galio after beign a star of tournamets like 2 years ago? why poppy is not picked in overall league? after years of changing the items, mana regen, base ms, summoner spells, jungle items, jungle paths, gold, heck even terrain

lets take a prime example, i see you are a rengar player, right? lets say rengar gets totally nerfed, we take away his heal and leap, and increased his cds of base skills in 5 secs each, would make him viable? barely from my point of view? he will be picked? maybe for the sakes of having a "predator like" champ

thats why champs like mordekaiser are barely viable from his nerfs back in season 2 i think, when they reduced the efficency of his shield regeneration hitting minions, plus meta changes

AetherKingdomJan 5, 20151 votes

Then why does the the community refuse to believe Sona, who has a great win rate and is actually pretty popular, said to be shit tier constantly? Because the boards picks and chooses who they hate. I'd take a Sona over a Lee Sin any day. And using such an extreme case is not a good example. If that happened, no one would play Rengar. And before you say Lee Sin is on the opposite side of the spectrum of that, then why does Lee have so much and have a low win rate? If he is such a free win, well, why isn't he winning?

inb4 bronze silver inb4 you don't know the win rate stays the same throughout every elo, even diamond.

NoFunWithNunuJan 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then why does the the community refuse to believe Sona, who has a great win rate and is actually pretty popular, said to be shit tier constantly? Because the boards picks and chooses who they hate. I'd take a Sona over a Lee Sin any day. And using such an extreme case is not a good example. If that happened, no one would play Rengar. And before you say Lee Sin is on the opposite side of the spectrum of that, then why does Lee have so much and have a low win rate? If he is such a free win, well, why isn't he winning?

inb4 bronze silver inb4 you don't know the win rate stays the same throughout every elo, even diamond.

i belive in you, at some point when i was picking sona it was free elo, the poke was so fucking insane, at lvl 3-4 i could burst any adc to half hp or lower with passive+Q to the degree they needed to 4 man gank us all the time and most times we either survive or kill them

and im not talking about old sona, im talking about reworked sona, range buffs were both a bless and a curse

VettahnJan 5, 20153 votes

or find a really easy matchup as kennen nowdays?

Have you EVER played Kennen?

After maining him for the last few months, I've found that the only BAD mathchups for him are Vayne and Lissandra, both of which are only secondary top laners.

He's actually really strong right now, was incredibly strong in season three, and has had a pretty good league experience overall.

You just have to learn him.

SammystormJan 5, 20152 votes

season 2 and 3 he was abused top. He basically started the ranged top movement in season 2.

asktiksJan 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Troll Berserker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYR2aXXK,comment-id=000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2015-01-05T02:56:30.817+0000)

70% of that list havent seen a good season in years for example kennen the only moment when he was reliable was back then in season 1 also when he was used as adc, besides that, who plays kennen or find a really easy matchup as kennen nowdays?

don't tell anyone, but kenne/swain UTTERLY DESTROY any bottom combo ive run into so far....yes I know weird right who woulda thought? but they just synergize so well...I do swain and between my snares and slows and kennens stun and ult, gg

hes a pretty good mid against some champs too, though hes easily hard countered he don't need much to wreck though

ZydronJan 5, 20151 votes

You forgot LeeSin and Azir and forgot to exclude about 80% of that list

Joe DreddJan 7, 20151 votes

Which ones haven't been viable for at least a year. And just so we can be fair, let's say which ones have had a win rate higher than Lee Sins for over a year, since a 45% win rate apparently is over the top broken op. inb4 bronzers bring wr down. inb4 you dont know diamond win rate is the same as bronze one.

deadlychuckJan 5, 20151 votes

If he was in the shittiest teir at least then he wouldn't have this massive pull on the game design, even after multiple nerfs

Joe DreddJan 5, 20151 votes

I never said he was shit tier,

deadlychuckJan 5, 20152 votes

{quoted} You don't want him to be balanced, you want him to be the shittest of shit tier

actually you did

AetherKingdomJan 5, 20151 votes

You don't want him to be balanced, you want him to be the shittest of shit tier

I never said he was, I said you dumbasses wanted him to be.

deadlychuckJan 6, 20151 votes

well i never said he was either?...

"IF he was shittiest teir"

we are both speaking in the hypothetical, i'm just saying if he was complete trash then he wouldn't have had such massive tug on the way the game was designed and balanced for the past 2 seasons

GaleWinUnleashedJan 4, 20153 votes

Careful what you say about Zac there. Just because he's not used often doesn't mean he has no place. Nor does it mean he's bad overall.

RustSkaJan 5, 20151 votes

You may want to check Zac's recent buff history if you're trying to imply that he's bad

HibekiJan 4, 20153 votes

Not really, he still has 4 forms of disengage.

Maximum MordeJan 4, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Siamak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYR2aXXK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-04T21:09:08.004+0000)

He'd be garbage if that happened.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. He still outduels the shit out of most people. He still has Q mobility for insane escapes through jungle walls. If he really gets in trouble, he can R to get people off him. So... basically the only change is that he has to choose between kicking someones face in for his free kill, or using it to escape. Choices are good. Lee is too good at getting away with retarded shit, just like Zed, Fizz, and Leblanc.

Ulquiorra995Jan 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Siamak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UYR2aXXK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-04T21:09:08.004+0000)

He'd be garbage if that happened.

So, take a champion who is top-tier for 4 seasons, remove ONE thing that wasn't even originally intended to be in his power budget and he becomes garbage? Somehow I doubt that.

At least jumping to trinket wards should be disabled. Regular wards are fair-play. There is absolutely no reason for Lee to have a ~~Warding~~ Flash trinket with all the other shit he has. There, now you have to actually hit your Q's and one of your 3 get-out-of-jail-free cards requires money and item slot. Instantly balanced.