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Shen needs an energy buff to make him similar to his fellow Ninja's

King Odin··50 votes·5,960 views

This represents a full rotation of spells but does not include auto attacks. Energy values represent what can be potentially refunded

Level 1 Akali - 200 Energy/ Refund 20 energy Zed - 165 Energy/ Refund 20 energy Kennen - 210 Energy / Refund 40 energy Shen - 210 Energy/ Refund 40 - 200 energy and 10 with Ki Strike Lee Sin - 150 Energy| 240 Energy / Refund 15-30 Energy

Level 18 Akali - 160 Energy/ Refund 40 energy Zed - 125 Energy/ Refund 40 energy Kennen - 170 Energy / Refund 40 energy Shen - 210 Energy/ Refund 40 - 200 energy and 30 with Ki Strike Lee Sin - 150 Energy| 240 Energy / Refund 15-30 Energy

Edit: Added Lee Sin Where as all other Ninja's have energy costs that are reduced with level Shen doesn't and this really hurts his mid-late game. He is not able to use the one of his two other abilities if his taunt misses and it's rare for him to get into auto attack in to refund energy. All other mages don't need rely on 1 ability hitting to do a full rotation of abilities. And for late game they can use 4 abilities not including there ults with no energy refund necessary, whereas Shen is crippled if he misses his narrow ass taunt.

All I am saying is that there is no need for him to have so many weaknesses compared to other champions.

Bonus Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZ0gIm5Drc&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z13djp4yrk2jf5rhv04cdpzivp2zt5gjs20

68 Comments

ImpossibleGT6 votes

They need to move Shen's refund off of his taunt because it's too punishing if he misses. I think they should keep the Ki Strike refund and move the taunt bonus over to Feint but reduce it. So something like refund 20 energy if Feint's shield breaks, but no longer refund anything from Shadow Dash.

WhiteFireOCN6 votes

I actively main Shen, and I can tell you there really isn't anything wrong with his energy costs.

Shen and Kennen have very balanced energy costs, and lowering Shen 's to Zed/Lee levels would just unbalance a balanced champion.

But I do agree that he's a bit weaker at the moment, it's just that he needs buffs elsewhere. (damage)

Rokr9 votes

{quoted}

I actively main Shen, and I can tell you there really isn't anything wrong with his energy costs.

Shen and Kennen have very balanced energy costs, and lowering Shen 's to Zed/Lee levels would just unbalance a balanced champion.

But I do agree that he's a bit weaker at the moment, it's just that he needs buffs elsewhere. (damage)

"Says he actively main Shen"

looks at match history

filter champions down to Shen

"No matches fit your filter criteria."

Nice try mate. Try again.

LOL Spammer8 votes

Just because he hasn't played the champ recently doesn't mean he doesn't main him.

LeeDark7 votes

Yeah, actually, it kinda does. Far as I can tell, he's played him all of one game.

Jefftiffy6 votes

People downvote me but have you ever seen a bruiser Shen?

item 3047 or item 3111 ,item 3065 or item 3102 ,item 3143 ,item 3078 ,item 3075 ,item 3083 /Damage item

He can burst for around 1k+ damage while forcing you to focus him and kill yourself and doesn't die.

WarlockLaw3 votes

I kind of want to downvote you not because you built damage in when but because you built the wrong ones. try item 3068 and a item 3153 or a item 3091 if you want to deal damage on him. Imo the sunfire cape should always be built (that or cinderhulk)

blueberrypancake1 votes

I used to do that build pre-30 when I was really bad at dueling scrubs

Then they would overextend and I would burst them

aaronconlin1 votes

I've only played him a few times every time he goes on Free week (always forget to buy him when I get enough IP) But I like building some damage items on him item 3717 item 3075 item 3078 item 3153 item 3027 item 3116 item 3068 item 3091 Any of these

WhiteFireOCN1 votes

I haven't played anything but ARAMs for almost a week, but I can assure you, I've mained Shen for 5 months +

Also, if you're looking at ranked match history, that's why you find nothing

EDIT: Why in the hell would I lie about who I main?

LeeDark1 votes

Then I'd have to say your definition of "maining a particular champion" is vastly different than most people's definition. See, to main someone, you have to play them a lot in a competitive mode. Normals don't mean shit because a ton of people are barely even trying to win there, and ARAMs certainly don't mean shit. I won't go so far as to say you need to be Plat or above, because anyone can learn the champion well enough to speak to their problems in different brackets, but you do have to actually be trying. Staying the fuck out of ranked means you shouldn't even be speaking on balance issues.

WhiteFireOCN

Normals don't mean shit because a ton of people are barely even trying to win there

That doesn't mean I can't hone my mechanical skill with a said champion

I know Shen better than any champ in the game, and I don't ever have problems with energy costs, simply because his returns are perfectly set up.

LeeDark1 votes

Wrong. I play normals when I'm drunk. Do you think I'm going to dodge a Shen taunt drunk? Sure, if I just get lucky. Your evaluation of Shen's energy costs and his strengths and weaknesses are based partially on match-ups where getting the energy return was made easy for you. His taunt is far too narrow to be a reliable energy refund mechanic. Attacking someone marked by his Q might be better; otherwise his taunt seriously needs to be buffed.

WhiteFireOCN

Because obviously I'm never going to run into a tough game or tough matchup in over 5 months of maining him -.-

You're obviously just scratching for things to whine about, so i'll just be done here

LeeDark1 votes

Of course you run into a tough game here and there; not everybody is drunk or just trying a champ out for the first time, or whatever. But your opinion on his energy costs and his strengths and weaknesses is not based on the few decent match-ups you had. It is based on the totality of your experience, and YOUR experience is shit. You don't really main him. You don't play ranked. Your opinion is meaningless as far as actual balance is concerned. So yeah, you're damn right you're done here. (But, like every loser, you'll reply again anyway.)

Mellori2 votes

You realize you can't see anything but their ranked games unless you're their friend, right?

Bionic Bison2 votes

Shen's energy costs are a tad too high, they'll need to refund his energy or reduce energy costs.

Just look at all the other energy-resource champs.

Dreadlocks5 votes

I think shen needs to scale more with well anything but AP.. not saying all but at least 1 of his abilities should scale with either health or AD.. (not talking abt his passive here lol)

Angelofchaos16x2 votes

{quoted}

I think shen needs to scale more with well anything but AP.. not saying all but at least 1 of his abilities should scale with either health or AD.. (not talking abt his passive here lol)

I agree with the health part, but I do not think that they will make a ad build viable (I mean, it will be less viable then a Ap build now).

HAIL WHYDRA1 votes

Actually, once you get enough ap and cdr, hypothetically, ap Shen is tankier than tank Shen, since his shield can absorb a lot of damage. I played Yasuo vs a Shen Mid and thought it was a joke. I could never kill him once late game came around since his shield always kept him alive long enough to e away or run to his teammates.

aaronconlin1 votes

But without resistances it can still be broken pretty fast. Maybe two AP items that double as tank items like item 3027 and item 3116

revliledpembroke5 votes

Actually, I kinda think we should "fix" Zed by giving him Energy costs like Shen's. But Shen does need some energy cost reductions. Kinda stupid that it isn't already.

The Soulforged3 votes

Zed could have some energy cost increases, but then he would also need some higher refunds.

B1naryB0t10 votes

Not really. Not everything has to be compensated.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Veigar

(I was debating putting Lee Sin here. Don't know how well people would get the joke these days.)

The Soulforged1 votes

;*( Seriously though... that compensation ended with his utter annihilation.

The Soulforged2 votes

They suck because they can be spammed. He would need other compensations though. He really isn't as bad as people say :/ There are a ton of reasons he's toxic, but compensation is something that should almost always happen with nerfs. Adjusting the power is as good if not better than nerfing it.

Edit: Q mana cost increased to 80 or so, base q increased by 10-20, fixed one frustrating part of his kit.

TomA3X1 votes

You can't spam his abilities, have you ever played Zed?

The Soulforged1 votes

Many a time. If he doesn't use any of his other abilities, his q can be cast quite a few times in succession before running out of energy.

Phoneixflare4 votes

shen needs a new kit.

blueberrypancake2 votes

He doesn't need a whole new kit, maybe just a better identity because he doesn't feel like a ninja

Hemulen Magi1 votes

I feel that Shen does feel like a ninja, just not the exact same archetype as Zed. Shen is an honorable ninja who leaps from the shadows to defend his allies, using his martial skill to deflect his opponents attacks and incapacitate them. In my opinion, if there is anything holding Shen back from feeling like a ninja, it is his ridiculously low base movement speed. He should have his movement speed increased by 10 points to equal Zed's.

If Shen gets a rework, I think it should be extremely minimal. I do support making his Feint seem more ninja-esque though. It would be awesome if he blocked/dodged his opponents attacks for 1 second or so (maybe regaining energy based on the damage prevented?) rather than generating a shield. It would feel pretty sweet to outplay a stacked Nasus by blocking their Siphoning Strike and using the damage to regain full energy.

Angelofchaos16x3 votes

This should be one of the thing that they are going to fix when they give him a rework. I hope so, cause I really want to play Shen, but in the current meta, other then Support he cant do much.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

Support Shen is fun though. :D

Also, he doesn't loose very hard to Zed in lane. He doesn't win (almost nobody actually does), but he doesn't loose.

WhiteFireOCN1 votes

I play support Shen with my friends all the time, and it works alot better than you would expect it to. It's pretty interesting

Vincent Lucius2 votes

{quoted}

This should be one of the thing that they are going to fix when they give him a rework. I hope so, cause I really want to play Shen, but in the current meta, other then Support he cant do much.

Try him in the jungle, he's actually pretty fun and useful there. You won't have to worry about losing lane because an emergency happens and you ult in to help someone, he has decent ganks once he hits three and his regen actually makes it so you can gank with 3/4 health (Or even full if you go after a scuttle crab), and it works well with his ultimate since junglers are supposed to be watching the map anyway to look for trouble to stop and weaves to snatch.

You can stop things from going bad or snowball your lanes pretty nicely as long as no one starts feeding horribly from my experience so far and since you're a tank anyway you don't really need the kills to help everyone out.

That said, increased energy regen would be nice on him. At least a little bit.

Squeekems3 votes

Level 3 Shen - 210 Energy/ Refund 0 - 200 energy and 10 with Ki Strike Shen - 210 Energy/ Refund 0 - 200 energy and 30 with Ki Strike

King Odin1 votes

??

Technically speaking all the champs can refund 0 energy so I didn't think there was a need to add it.

Squeekems1 votes

I do not know the other champions well enough. Haha. But there is a chance to be 0.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

The thing is...since the hitbox got nerfed the chance is quite big, and to catch more than 2 people takes a miracle...still leaving you with energy problems really fast if you want to use more than just shadow dash during fights.

LilxPaprika2 votes

I've played with scaling energy runes and like 4 seals & 2 glyphs and it was pretty good. Best if your getting some ap and cdr like rylais and can spam your shield for more tankyness. Its also handy if your low on energy and need to dash away waiting isn't as long mid to late game though once the runes kick in.

Here's my idea for shen to get better energy management since missing a taunt is pverly costly considering how narrow. I'd be like nidalee losing 15% mana for missing a spear. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/KL0NuLWE-possible-fix-for-shen-taunt-width

I also had this suggestion. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/12h9HwVK-shen-feint-and-ki-strike-interaction

This would also help him a lot in the jungle especially if going full tank and relies on passive to clear. It will be a bit more like Lee sin where a good shen makes good use of spells to clear faster. By leveling feint up enough to keep it up in the jungle while auto attacking you could clear faster than spamming q.

In fact this could actually be considered a bug of sorts. Since feint is supposed to shave 2 seconds off kistrike cool down. If your at 1 second on it your getting chipped/ not getting the full efficacy of feint while its up. It should sort of round up sort to speak to and trigger kistrike.

MasterPrankster2 votes

Shen has high energy costs because if his costs were on par with the other ninjas, he would be absolutely god tier. His kit has WAY more strengths than the other kits.

King Odin2 votes

How so? CC Wise: His taunt has a tiny radius and does 0 damage compared to Kennen's Massive AOE Stun which scales on what he builds. Damage Wise: Everyone does more damage than him Tank Wise: Lee Sin effectively Tanks better due to his mobility and also has better sustain with his Iron Will Mobility: See everyone else

flibitydoo3 votes

  1. you are comparing an ultimate with a 120 second cooldown to a basic ability with a 16-8 second cooldown.

  2. Shen actually bursts pretty hard with a Trinity Force. trinity force is actually really good because his Q and W have low CDs and can be cast indefinitely the moment they come off of CD. And the damage from Sunfire cape actually adds up to a lot given how tanky Shen is.

  3. Lee sin becomes useless outside of his 90 second cooldown ultimate if you build him full tank for lategame. Also Shen sustains way better than Lee sin due to the spammability of Q and W.

  4. I'm pretty certain a global ultimate that also comes with a massive shield is not "bad mobility". Also the shield is massive and makes him the best counterganker in the game post 6.

Shen's weaknesses (for a top laner) are: his lack of aoe damage and obvious lack of waveclear because of it (which is why he builds Sunfire cape, (or the new bami's cinder, which btw is a huge buff to Shen)) He has no early game kill potential/burst. You kill your enemy by harassing them with Q and outsustaining them in a battle of attrition that you will win because shen is a massive meatwall early game (lategame he is also a big meatwall).

That being said, like Renekton, he has everything a top laner wants outside of those weaknesses. And unlike Renekton he's actually pretty great lategame because of his ult/splitpush strength.

blueberrypancake2 votes

Shen actually got played in the LCS by H2K because of the Bami's Cinder buff

Rainbowgasm2 votes

my problem with Shen is that you aren't allowed to use 2 (vorpal blade and feint) of your abilities if you want to use your most important one, (shadow dash), yet it can be interrupted by a love tap.

BubbaDuke2 votes

Shen needs help. I think it's gotta be more than just energy costs though.

I think that outside of his ultimate, he just isn't fun to play, and that should change.

bulletbear1 votes

I have never played shen but as a Kennen main myself I often times find myself running out of energy. I couldn't imagine what its like to be playing shen

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

Imagine having all your abilities off coldown. But you can't use them except during the first 1 second of a fight. That's Shen landing his taunt.

Imagine you missed your taunt. You have to pick between your Q or your W; the other will have to wait 5 seconds.

The Lexer1 votes

Last time I played (this was a long time ago btw) once you used Shen's taunt late game you already had to little energy to cast any other spell

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