Boards›Gameplay

is Bronze really Bronze?

Power Cosmic··2 votes·742 views

What does rank really mean? Does being the best in Bronze make you the worst than Silver, or uncomparable to Gold or Plat? As we know that is hardly the case, but I am still Bronze.

Rank is not individual skill, so what is it? (if rank was based on my individual playing in games I would've been Gold 100+ games ago) It also seems that being good is more than a handicap than a good thing. If you are bad or average, if you do good you win, or you get carried. For good players that do good every game, they can win every time the do good so... they have to be giving disadvantages to try to overcome. It is true and ridiculous. If a player is that good that he has to be given disadvantages to lose; then he should obviously be progressed higher. But if he isn't moving higher, what does rank mean? If you are good your rank is a reflection of your matchmaking. I could be just a weirdly hard to matchmake aberration of consistently great play, but whatever the case if matchmaking punishes you for being good instead of rewarding, what does rank mean?

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Power%20Cosmic

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/Power%20Cosmic/champions

27 Comments

Gizm01 votes

Bronze is a nightmare lol, i've climbed out of it a couple times and it's a lot harder than getting out of silver. What makes it so difficult is you've got players who are just starting out, players who dont give a shiznit and a bunch of really good smurf accs. Mix those all together and it makes for quite a fiesta. If you want to climb to gold this season, I suggest you check out my YT channel. I'll be posting weekly vids on how to get to gold:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChJxCSkdvGeHnjJAlHpu06w

Power Cosmic1 votes

tbh, you could use my advice more than I could use yours. like i know more, and play better using it. your mains arent my mains, but I know them and play them very well. you are an example what is wrong with rank. i am a lot better than you but you are gold and i am bronze. it is not your fault and at least you are nice.

Gizm01 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=URwuI1Rh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T04:49:31.381+0000)

tbh, you could use my advice more than I could use yours. like i know more, and play better using it. your mains arent my mains, but I know them and play them very well. you are an example what is wrong with rank. i am a lot better than you but you are gold and i am bronze. it is not your fault and at least you are nice.

Suit yourself, if you want to test that theory, feel free to add me in game and we'll 1v1

Power Cosmic2 votes

How would a blind pick 1v1 relate to what happens on a 5v5 summoners rift draft game?

Gizm02 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=URwuI1Rh,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-08T05:07:49.337+0000)

How would a blind pick 1v1 relate to what happens on a 5v5 summoners rift draft game?

It would determine who is the more mechanically skilled player.

Power Cosmic1 votes

If blind it would determine who got lucky. The most important thing is the matchup itself. Illoai can only do so much into Trynd, Teemo into Panth, Veigar into Kass, etc

MysterQ1 votes

just play him best of 5.

DrCyanide1 votes

No, it would determine who can play champions that are better at duels.

BigBellBrute1 votes

{quoted}

It would determine who is the more mechanically skilled player.

It would if you did a series of games where you each play the same character against each other over a broad spectrum of characters. But just one match blind pick any character you want wouldn't.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

It would determine who is the more mechanically skilled player.

Wait, I want to 1 vs 1 him as well!

MysterQ1 votes

If you can't climb up after 100s of games, then you are probably in the correct MMR/rank. I hate to say that because i hate this system, and I generally sympathize with anyone who hates it.

I just don't think your short paragraph is valid.

Power Cosmic1 votes

Statistics don't lie.

Mysticman893 votes

You have almost exactly a 50% win ratio after 400+ games, which is strongly indicative that you are at your 'true' mmr. If you're gaining more LP than you're losing, then that means your 'true' rank is higher than what it currently is. If it's about the same, then great, you're the ideal case where the system worked and your rank/mmr match. If your LP gains are less than losses on the other hand, your current rank is probably the result of a lucky streak, and in reality your 'true' rank is slightly lower.

I would expect your LP gains/losses to be roughly equal. (It might be worth noting that third party estimates of skill/mmr are merely estimates and not always accurate, which is why going by LP gains/losses is important since those are based on your true mmr instead of an estimate of it.)

Mysticman891 votes

Rank is just a cosmetic overlay that is generally correlated with your mmr, but it's not a direct relationship, and is only really important in determining your end of season rewards and who you can queue with. With enough games played and no active manipulation (e.g. spamming dodging to avoid promotions*, or boosting to a tier above your 'true' mmr), rank will eventually reflect your mmr, but many people don't necessarily play enough games, or have a 'true' rank below their rank due to demotion protections (e.g. a gold 5 player who has a silver 3 mmr and 'should' be silver 3 won't be demoted).

MMR by contrast is the important thing. It determines who you're actually matchmade with, and your lp gains/losses, and is probably the most objectivve measure of your individual skill at winning games. Once you're at your 'true' mmr, you'll win roughly 50% of the time, because everyone at that mmr is around the same skill as you. This means people won't often overshoot their 'true' rank, and since lp gains/losses depend on your mmr relative to rank, maintaining a 50% winrate will result in you climbing until your rank matches your mmr.

*= In some seasons, the best bronze ranked players were literally among the best players in the region, playing in games with challengers due to dodge spamming silliness to avoid promotion.

Power Cosmic1 votes

Your rank is a product of wins and losses. Which have a lot to do with the 9 other people. If my performance was the determining factor is my games I would be gold or higher awhile ago. Therefore, my play isn't the determining factor so it has nothing to do with my play but rather where the game itself wants me to be located.

Mysticman891 votes

That there are 9 other people in the game is why you need a large sample size of games to suss out your individual skill level from the random variation in the other 9 players' skills. You are the one common factor in all your games, so even if you may only be able to personally be the determining factor in around 10% of games, that will statistically show up in sufficiently large samples.

Power Cosmic1 votes

If you are reading this, I am probably a lot better than you whatever rank you happen to be. I am not a flamer at all in my games, just being perfectly honest.

Cocho1 votes

https://clips.twitch.tv/SwissSpikyBaboonFailFish

Power Cosmic1 votes

When I get autofilled, I am often better than every single teammate at the role they r playing. How is that fair? My final suggestion is that people should play with people that perform how they do. The only way u get better teams consistently plays better. Bad always far outweighs good so creating 50/50 is a waste. For now, this game is a waste if I am actually punished (instead of rewarded) for performing at an absurdly high level as a player and a teammate (morale, advice, etc).

GankedByWindows1 votes

The rank system measures how well you are able to effectively win inside a team game. The best and easiest way to climb in this system is to become a strong player yourself and positively impact every single game you play, since you can't choose your teammates.

Silver players on average are better than bronze players. There is going to be some overlap because there are so many variables that go into it, but generally silver players are better in measureable skills than bronze players.

If you'd stick to the champions you're good at and quit playing Aatrox and to a lesser extent Nocturne, you'd probably be silver. Especially if you just used Brand and Yorick. You're obviously not as good on Aatrox (lower ,CS,K/P, any important stats), and thus you lose more games.

Power Cosmic1 votes

Dig Deeper. If my KDA is combined 4.5 over 30 games on those two in Bronze, that would usually trigger curiosity bc the unusual win rate.

GankedByWindows1 votes

Yes, it is a good KDA. It also happens to be a great example of why KDA does not tell the whole story. If you're getting that KDA by splitting when you shouldn't, choosing to leave your teammate to die when you could suicide to save 3 of them, etc you can get a high KDA without winning.

Power Cosmic1 votes

If all I had to do was play good/average ADC, to progress..... I would've progressed already. It is harder for certain very good players for some reason. My losses with Aatrox are the same as those for Yorick, Vel'Koz, Nocturne, Swain, or anyone else.

GankedByWindows1 votes

No, they're not. You clearly don't understand how to translate your leads that you get with aatrox into objectives/wins like you do with Brand. That is why you can't pick up a champion and do well consistently. They're not all the same and it takes time to learn how to use those champions to their full extent.

Hallbuster1 votes

~~ I've looked at your match history and noticed that you are carrying most of your games.

Before I go any further, I would like to tell you I'm Bronze 3 myself, and would like to tell you the one thing you need to improve on to leave bronze. CS. Seriously, CS is underrated when you consider 2 things:

1.) 17 CS alone is worth 300 gold, enough to make up a kill! 2.) CS does not devalue(in fact, they're actually worth slightly more as the game progresses), killing a champion over and over again until they're worth nothing does.

Now, I will compare your most recent match game with. You played Caitlyn and got 173 CS in 30 minutes, which equates to 173 / 3 x 2 =115 CS in 20 minutes. Now take a look at my recent Vladimir game, I got 262 CS in 30 minutes, which roughly equates to 174 CS in 20 minutes. We subtract the 2 results: 174 - 115 = 59 / 17 = 3.4 or roughly 3 kills. Even though my KDA wasn't great: 8/4/3. My CS made up for 3 kills!

This chart wasn't made for satire, read it closely:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/4lqmfMGZ-rate-my-cs-in-20-minutes

P.S The reason I like to measure CS in 20 minutes is that MOST games end before then.

BigBellBrute1 votes

If you're genuinely a plat player or above, you should have no problem climbing out of bronze. A legit diamond player can indeed one V five most bronze players, and BM them with taunts, laughs, and character dancing while doing so. So let us end the myth that truly superior players are stuck indefinitely in bronze. That's not true.
If you're Gold, you might have a bit of a problem, but that problem shouldn't last forever. Maybe half a season or so with a high play rate or a full one with a not so high play rate.
And yes there are probably are quite a few Silver players that are indeed stuck in Bronze. The system isn't completely precise or completely accurate. But it's close enough that we know a plat is quite a bit better than someone stuck in bronze.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Power Cosmic

Riot Doesn't Like Macro and it has Hurt the Game
Gameplay35 comments
27
votes
Add Bans to AR_URF
Gameplay1 comments
22
votes
Morde is awesome, and was not transformed into another Riven?
Gameplay21 comments
12
votes
How does Riot think a veteran Aatrox and Panth main feels about their reworks?
Gameplay100 comments
11
votes
Illaoi Minor Buff
Gameplay7 comments
8
votes
Jungle is the Most Grueling Role by Far
Gameplay14 comments
7
votes