Fiddle Ult + Zhoyas seems unfair

Ztoka·Dec 14, 2015·1 votes·998 views

I am not sure how many other champs can do it, but ulting then using zhoyas so you can't be touched/countered seems a bit unfair. Can't stun/break the ult when he is immune to everything. I don't understand why his ult works like this yet champs like kata dive, lotus, get stunned and it is game over due to counter play. The only counter play I see now for fiddle is to hope you also have a zhoyas up when fiddle dives/ults/zhoyas. Champs who can be doing their ult while untouchable due to zhoyas is bs :)

23 Comments

TeemoJenkinsDec 14, 20158 votes

Did you know you don't have to stand in his ult while it's going? In fact... you shouldn't.

MerxamersDec 14, 20153 votes

Fiddle's Ult strength is compensated by:

His extreme squishiness
The very long cooldown and significant channel time of the ult
The set up required; Fiddle needs to find a good spot and make sure it's not warded
Fiddle is one of the easier junglers to invade and set behind; denying his first blue buff delays his power spikes by ~6 minutes

TwigglesDec 14, 20152 votes

Well for one thing, Katarina is much more mobile and has a lot more burst potential in her kit. Plus, Fiddle's ult has a long channel time which can be interrupted to put the ult on cooldown. Katarina's is instantly damaging you as soon as she shunpos in (also doing damage) and hits R.

DreamLeviathanDec 14, 20151 votes

Well, it's not channeled. It's been like this for ages. Some similar ults would be Kennen's and Morgana's.

...I sort of wonder if Garen's spin keeps going while zhonya'd, actually, since I think he keeps spinning through being stunned..? Though that's unlikely to ever come up.

MisterHealYoGirlDec 14, 20151 votes

Well, technically, almost all champions can Zhonyas while ulting, but the notable skills that work in the way that you mean are as follows. There are a few corner cases that I don't know about (Darius Q, Blitz's ult passive), but they're pretty minor. Amumu W Karthus E Kennen R Morgana R Rumble Q Rammus R (and E, sort of) Nasus R Renekton R Lulu R Sona Q W E Swain R Taric W, R

Most of these champions rush Zhonyas first or second item, and this is why.

DeathBurstDec 14, 20151 votes

You can add Heimer with his ulted turret, too.

TroyTheUnconquerDec 14, 20151 votes

who the hell plays Sona with a Zhonyas ult? it's a one direction stun that is used for escapes and setting up team fights

And rammus? i guess you can but he's a champ that's meant to take damage, not a squishy mage that relies on his ult

I've honestly never seen a amumu go full AP, so i never see them with Zhonyas

Lulu's ult is useless if you Zhonya's while its going on unless your trying to buy time for your team to get there and save you, which is in my opinion what most champions use Zhonya's for.

Sooooo yeah, the rest i could possibly see as someone using, but the main ones that i've seen wipe out entire teams with the Zhonyas ult combo are Kennen and Heimerdinger and Fiddlesticks

FurretHasAGlockDec 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

who the hell plays Sona with a Zhonyas ult? it's a one direction stun that is used for escapes and setting up team fights

And rammus? i guess you can but he's a champ that's meant to take damage, not a squishy mage that relies on his ult

I've honestly never seen a amumu go full AP, so i never see them with Zhonyas

Lulu's ult is useless if you Zhonya's while its going on unless your trying to buy time for your team to get there and save you, which is in my opinion what most champions use Zhonya's for.

Sooooo yeah, the rest i could possibly see as someone using, but the main ones that i've seen wipe out entire teams with the Zhonyas ult combo are and and

Ones besides those are morg, (shackles for the root) Rammus (zhonyas gives armor, and an AP rammus can be insanely bursty, with his Q and R scaling) Karthus can use zhonyas as a stall for his death, giving his 2 extra seconds of Defile, Swain, for his heal, but the others are kinda bad. I think there is one more.... but i can't think of it. Edit: TF, can be a jerk with it as he can make people waste combos by doing ult, and whilst channeling, use zhonyas so you don't teleport. Its hilarious if you do it right, you can make the enemy team waste SO MANY ULTS. XD

TroyTheUnconquerDec 14, 20151 votes

lmao, i can see TF with Zhonyas being soooo trolly, and i'm not denying the morg or karthus, personally i've never seen a rammus but it makes a little bit of sense, but the main ones that i've seen wipe out masses of people are the three i mentioned haha

MisterHealYoGirlDec 14, 20152 votes

I didn't say that Sona would ult-Zhonyas, I said that the auras on her Q, W, and E continue to function while she's in stasis. Did you even read the entry? I'm not TRYING to complain about champions, i'm trying to compile a list.

TroyTheUnconquerDec 15, 20151 votes

Ahhhh, my bad, i saw so many R's my brain somehow messed up and i thought you were talking about her ult,

And i understand your trying to a list, i was just saying that on the list, I've never seen a Lulu, Amumu, Rammus, or Sona ever go with a Zhonyas, and i couldn't see them using it except for Rammus, my bad if i came off negatively :)

MisterHealYoGirlDec 15, 20151 votes

I play almost all ARAM, so facing down full AP tanks is much more common for me than for most, which definitely biased my list. Anyway, no hard feelings! :3

TroyTheUnconquerDec 15, 20151 votes

Okay, you playing ARAM makes a lot of sense now that i think about it haha :)

Zorae42Dec 15, 20151 votes

You forgot Annie R

Pretty useful if the tibbers+E doesn't kill everyone instantly.

MisterHealYoGirlDec 15, 20151 votes

I didn't count things that make lasting effects like Heimerdinger, Fizz, Rumble, or Annie, since you're just finishing doing your ult and then using Zhonyas.

PiVoRxDec 14, 20151 votes

Zhonya is a cancer item overall. 90 sec CD compared to 300 GA, rofl.

VanjieDec 14, 20151 votes

I think it is fine since he is pretty useless in the jG right now.

FurretHasAGlockDec 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Black Arachne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UJgLl4BA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-14T19:25:11.101+0000)

I think it is fine since he is pretty useless in the jG right now.

Easy to counter jg if u get his blue, as said before. But he is still a good jg, just don't use a jg item besides the mana regen one! Zhonyas first item.

RyùuzakiDec 14, 20151 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

IcyPepperDec 15, 20151 votes

but ulting then using zhoyas so you can't be touched/countered seems a bit unfair.

Did you know you can use zhonyas when they ult as well? Or is that unfair as well?

You can see the channel (if you're warding), and if he uses zhonyas then you can move out of the aoe without any chance of him following you.

IceohDec 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The only counter play I see now for fiddle is to hope you also have a zhoyas up when fiddle dives/ults/zhoyas. Champs who can be doing their ult while untouchable due to zhoyas is bs :)

Good vision counters fiddlesticks.