Summary of Vladimir's rework

ACENOX··63 votes·3,633 views

passive: literally unchanged Q: 1st+2nd Q is trash deals no damage, heals for nothing. 3rd Q heals 50% less on minions, heals for nothing until you're low, and can be avoided by not letting vladimir using his 3rd Q on you. W: long cooldown spell, that now deals less damage, only good if you want to escape/dodge a spell E: no longer hits you behind creeps, no longer increases sustain, costs a % of hp unlike before, needs to charge it to make damage, cooldown was increased to 11 sec or more in early game

trash base stats, trash base ms that makes melee able to hit him hard

spellvamp removed, broken 800 gold gravious wound introduced

and you still hear about "toxic laning phase vladimir" ,

what do you i say to those people? git gud

72 Comments

Sona x Rubick30 votes

vlad rework was so awesome, it gave him tons of counterplay

problem is that how riot are handling his balance afterward.

HateDaddy9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tyks63an,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-13T10:24:30.008+0000)

vlad rework was so awesome, it gave him tons of counterplay

problem is that how riot are handling his balance afterward.

It's a lot like Olaf. In competitive, teams used to build comps around Olaf and Olaf would go fucking nuts. But in solo queue, the guy never had anything above a 46% winrate because his kit on it's own is selfish as fuck. Vlad's kit is less selfish but it's the same principle. Vlad on his own can't do much but Vlad with a team that allows him to excel, he's fucking stupid.

I don't pretend to know the right answer here but it's also not okay when he's basically 1v5ing in competitive play.

Sona x Rubick6 votes

eh, vlad isn't 1v5ing anyone in competition, at least in the games i looked at

care to show me an example?

Spizzle90007 votes

The rework makes him significantly more interesting to play, but I absolutely loathe his kit because he was doing terribly outside of the LCS even before this last patch, but now his winrate is even below 45%.

IMO, it's total horse shit that my main of 2.5 years has been nerfed into the fucking ground because there are 25 Korean guys who abuse him.

HateDaddy16 votes

I haven't heard anybody really complain about Vlad's lane phase. He's way less oppressive than he used to be as a laner and has significantly more counterplay. I'm sure some have complained but in general, no I haven't seen it.

Almost everyone knows at this point Vlad is being nerfed because what he does in competitive.

Terchio3 votes

His 26% ban rate would suggest otherwise. I don't personally see why it's so high, though. I actually agree that he's kinda easy to control in lane, but I guess the consensus is that he's hard to handle? I personally haven't had a game where a Vlad had anything like a blowout effect on the game. He was just annoying with being almost impossible to finish when behind in lane (mostly top), somewhat like an Irelia with invuln instead of stun.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

His 26% ban rate would suggest otherwise. I don't personally see why it's so high, though. I actually agree that he's kinda easy to control in lane, but I guess the consensus is that he's hard to handle? I personally haven't had a game where a Vlad had anything like a blowout effect on the game. He was just annoying with being almost impossible to finish when behind in lane (mostly top), somewhat like an Irelia with invuln instead of stun.

I've played in games where he's carried. If he has the right kinda of champions around him, he becomes incredibly difficult to deal with.

Project omen12 votes

It's sad because current Vlad is pretty shit if you are not very good with him. And if you are very good with him, he's ok at most, unless you snowball early, which is highly unlikely. He is too risky and has more counterplay than he should have after the nerfs.

Battlecast Sona3 votes

they just need to put strength back into his Q imo. His sustain fantasy is really weak right now and it's mostly because E feels really satsifying as a damage tool but Q feels really poor as a tool to get HP back to cast it (and with no more WotA you can't heal off the E itself/get additional spellvamp.) I have been having some successes with spellvamp quints and the vampirism mastery...

Sahn Uzal10 votes

When people claim Vlads rework made him 'more toxic' than he was...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ef/c9/47/efc94722784047bd31cdb860b52a07ab.jpg

I'd wish they just gave him a more selfish ult, so Riot doesn't have to gut him because LC$ BIG PALYS I mean Seriously, Midlane Vladimir has THE LOWEST winrate in the ENTIRE game according to champion.GG, and Toplane Vladimir is not performing much hotter...

ACENOX8 votes

i want them remove the damage amplification, and only amplifies vlad's damage by 20 or 30%

but then this would make vlad less unique

Project omen3 votes

No, that would make him trash tier. Swain already has 20% damage amplification to himself on a basic ability.

Sona x Rubick4 votes

i agree, though vlad would be able to increase his damage on 5 people.

but yeah that's bad.

Terchio3 votes

Vlad still has a mobile Zhonya's. He does lack CC, but I'd hardly say he'd be non-unique if they gutted the "support" aspect of his ultimate and gave him some enhanced damage as compensation. He's looking to be more damage/tank than support in the roles he plays, anyway.

Project omen1 votes

If they tune the damage amp from the ult to only apply to himself, he's going to be garbage. Even Riot said that champions who only offer damage are not healthy, which is why they reworked Ryze (again). Yes, he has the slow from his pool, but this is the last reason he would ever use it, especially in a teamfight. Yes, he has the slow from his E, but it requires full charge and is not good by itself. Everything else is just damage. Vlad's ult is the only reason for him to be picked and contribute to his team, theoretically at least.

Terchio2 votes

Thing is, we're not talking about Mordekaiser here. He does have a slow and, most importantly, an invulnerable period. You take that invuln, slow, and toss on a slow/tossup ulti (which does have damage amp... hmm.), suddenly you have one of the most consistently unbalanceable champions, Fizz.

Also, I'd think his passive accounts for at least some uniqueness in his kit, as well.

Blakiepug4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tyks63an,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-09-13T10:38:35.762+0000)

When people claim Vlads rework made him 'more toxic' than he was...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ef/c9/47/efc94722784047bd31cdb860b52a07ab.jpg

I'd wish they just gave him a more selfish ult, so Riot doesn't have to gut him because LC$ BIG PALYS I mean Seriously, Midlane Vladimir has THE LOWEST winrate in the ENTIRE game according to champion.GG, and Toplane Vladimir is not performing much hotter...

Now you understand how people who play Azir have felt all season.

Sahn Uzal7 votes

I don't think I've ever claimed to agree with the way Riot dealt with Azir. I actually think I was against him getting nerfed over and over again.

I'm not an Azir player, I'm not a Vlad player, but neither of them deserve to dumpstered like this imo.

Nuparu3 votes

Many people have said it, and it's true.

Azir will remain garbage because his kit is literally perfect. There's absolutely no way to balance him into something that won't either be garbage or auto pick ban because he has no weaknesses except numbers...

THE RlVER KlNG7 votes

Riot hates seeing sustain be meta because it discourages flashy plays in lane. Coupled with the fact that Riot is still puzzled that AoE damage amp is good in pro play, plus they're nerfing all the wrong things all the time.

Rockm Sockm7 votes

He worked in Los because of teamwork and the fights can be more extended.

Vlad can't do anything on his own. He can't even keep people in range to proc his slow because it slows him.

His rework did nothing to help him and just added an immense amount of counterplay to an already bad champion.

Keepe3 votes

Welcome to Riot 2016. They buff people who don't need it.

LeeSin Hrm?

And they nerf people who don't need it.

Lissandra I don't even remember the last time I was a popular pick...

HateDaddy2 votes

Lee is literal garbage tier right now and Lissandra is one of the best flex picks in the game lol

Keepe2 votes

How do you figure on Lee? Because he requires skill and teamwork to pull off? Or just because you read patch notes and see Riot claim that he is under-preforming?

And Liss tends to be mediocre at best. The only "Strength" of being a flex pick is really hoping that the enemy team does not know where you're going.

I'm just saying, I have seen Lee Sins who display skill do wonderful things. Meanwhile, every time I see a Lissandra, she underpreforms. Whether I am murdering her down in top or mid, or when I am trying to back her up.

Votable Jester1 votes

Lissandra also forces her lane opponent to take cleanse, keeping them from following on her TP ganks. She also has pretty good burst and cc.

Keepe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tyks63an,comment-id=000c0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-14T01:18:39.032+0000)

Lissandra also forces her lane opponent to take cleanse, keeping them from following on her TP ganks. She also has pretty good burst and cc.

Ryze Hmm? Lissandra? What about her. Wait, isn't she the one who is trying to return the Watchers to the world? Oh, yeah. Absolutely flawless logic on her part. Cleanse? I'm sorry, do you think I became an Archmage by letting people get that close to me? Hells, in my time, Apprentices had more murderous intentions than she does.

LitAF5 votes

rip my old main*[zombie-brand-facepalm]*

Frius4 votes

but then was a moment he had several hundres of ap ,4-5k hp ,couldnt die and aoe`d teamfights thats why they are sick of him.

ACENOX9 votes
  1. no way he reaches 4/5 k hp
  2. he's a ball of hp, with small resistances
  3. healing can be reduced via ignites and gw
  4. his E can be stopped by any cc
  5. his E can be stopped by tanks
  6. his laning phase is so shit against 70% of any laners if you can play correctly, trade when his 3rd Q isn't here, make him use W that costs 20% of hp.
Frius1 votes

i dont hate vlad ,is what they do

sometimes he heals for even 1k+ with Q , i mean he used to before nerf or E explode 800 dmg /target ,depends on who and applies rylay and R if you hit it on more ppl ,you full heal

ACENOX3 votes

i understand your meaning, and i was replying to them

and all of what you listed is conditional that's why vlad isn't that good in reality

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

If he is so easy to counter and so bad in general like you try to make him to be he wouldn't be pick/ban in competitive and get nerfed all the time. Fact is in his current state he is broken for 5v5 and mostly trash tier in solo and that's a problem occuring more and more often in the last two seasons.

ACENOX4 votes

i was listing drawbacks in soloQ, not in competition

Shinirup4 votes

Vlad is now slow, clunky, and boring. Q is a snore fest most of the time. Requiring it to be the third one to not be boring. But having the enemy rarely come up to you when it is up. And E having to be charged + slowing you while it is charging and being blocked is obnoxious. Oh look I am slowed, oh look I am slowed. Hey guys, more being slow. Has a nap. I liked Vlad when he just came out. And spells cost HP but they hurt people. His ult was actually useful for blowing people up. Not just letting others hurt them. And all his skills were fast. He also had a way longer range...though he was somewhat too strong.

I do not give a damn about helping my team mates. I liked him because I didn't have to rely on them for anything. I could do the jobs of tank, damage, healer, assassin etc for myself. Though not as good as any of those roles in a team setting. I could do them enough for the sake of only protecting myself and killing my targets. Though they have been making that harder year over year...with their attempts to push for team work...which is why I have barely played Summoners Rift in a couple to a few years. I preferred seasons 1 and 2 when I could sit in my lane, destroy them, ignore the other lanes for thirty minutes, then carry no matter how badly the other lanes did.

And yes grievous wounds...With the amount of games that people buy Morello even while not facing a champion who uses healing skills...they might as well just make Grievous Wounds permanently applied by all mages when a character is below 40% (or w.e it is) hp. Not to mention how cheap the AD version even is.

ZT Xperimentor4 votes

Pretty much my thoughts as well; he's not as remotely fun to play anymore because he feels like he counters himself. If riot wants to force this counterplay mentality, then they should be applying it to marksmen & assassins as well. Otherwise is another example of their favoritism & double standards.

It Hertz When IP3 votes

I feel like his rework was completely unnecessary. They were already removing spell vamp, least they could have done was waited to see how it affected him before they gutted him.

mustafa28813 votes

true, i bought my vladimir FOR A REASON.

Spoofghoul3 votes

had a toxic laningfase before rework still has a toxic laning fase

people call it what it is, toxic

hes just overal weaker now though i like the new E

Sona x Rubick4 votes

he can't trade with people, unless they walk into him while his crimson rush is here

and he can't sustain anymore like before with spellvamp, unless he uses his crimson rush on people.

Project omen4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tyks63an,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-09-13T13:31:43.248+0000)

he can't trade with people, unless they walk into him while his crimson rush is here

and he can't sustain anymore like before with spellvamp, unless he uses his crimson rush on people.

+he is even weaker to pushing champs and has a hard time farming under tower. At least before his rework, his Q gave him the same amount of heal whether he used it on minions or champs.

Castanean3 votes

Well, just because it's weaker doesn't mean you have to like it.

I don't mind vlad that much though, there are much worse champs out there.

Dengeden2 votes

Not biased at all

Spizzle90002 votes

Have you taken a peek at Vladimir's winrate? Last patch it was 45-46% and now it's around 43-44-ish. His winrate before this round of nerfs was absolutely abysmal but this is total horse shit.

Dengeden1 votes

Very telling that he was still broken in the right hands despite that 45-46% winrate. Means he should be in a good spot now, right? Low-Midrange casters are hard to pull off anyway, their winrates will always be below average if they're balanced.

Spizzle90002 votes

Christ. Just because something is broken when the pros are playing doesn't mean it's broken elsewhere. The issue is that Riot has the professionals playing with the exact same balance as the rest of us, which means certain champions that are trash elsewhere are able to dumpster because the professionals play on an entirely different level and have infinitely more teamwork and coordination.

There's an enormous difference between balance and 25 Korean guys butchering with a champion. Balance means that a champion wins around half of games they're in across the board, not this disgusting bipolar situation where 99.999% of players have a winrate of 44% or so compared to pros that have a winrate of like 70% or some bullshit with him.

That's not balance: that's shitty design right there. While Vladimir's rework made him more fun to play against, he's damn near impossible to balance now because if you make him balanced at regular play, he'll be ridiculous in pro play.

How in the actual fuck can you say 44% is just "below average"? It's one of the worst winrates of any champion that isn't new and he has the worst winrate in the entire game right now and Yorick was just released. That isn't below average, it's pathetic.

Dengeden1 votes

50% winrate across the board is improbable as heck.

And I'm sorry but you're basically saying that people who have room to improve should be just as successful at a champion as the people who've come close to perfection. What? Vlad was and is a lane bully and someone who chunked and kited your entire team in teamfights. So pro-level coordination was not the primary factor in his success, his high skill cap was.

General Esdeath 1 votes

800g grievous wounds introduced

Hasn't that item been around since season 4?

WoonStruck4 votes

It used to be an 8 second GW to target active, only gave lifesteal and crit, and cost ~50% more. It also didn't build into anything.

Then it cost 1900, gained 25 AD, 5% more crit, lost the lifesteal, applied GW for 1.5 seconds on-hit.


Effectively, they lowered the cost by 1100, doubled the passive effect duration, while it lost 10 AD and 20% crit (about 1150 g worth total), and 10% healing reduction.

Sona x Rubick1 votes

calling's problem was that it had no upgrade in late game (mostly).

WoonStruck1 votes

Pretty much.

The original could have been a great item if lifesteal and crit worked similarly to DotA.

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