Exhaust Nerf, Hmm...

Parceval··10 votes·2,378 views

This is a very substantial nerf to exhaust in an environment where it's already pretty hard to keep your squishes alive and slow down the "hyper-carry got so far ahead we can't ever catch up" mechanics of this game.

Why do this? It seems highly unnecessary.


Because mid champions were running exhaust? Then buff back up some other summoner spells, or consider WHY they're running exhaust now. You've severely wounded supports and game flow for a small niche of an issue.

26 Comments

Rabblerouser6 votes

Exhaust shouldn't be used so offensively, in my opinion. So resistance shred nerf was necessary to avoid abuse by other parties. This is coming from a support main.

However, I feel the removal of the attack speed reduction was unnecessary. Just... why? That specifically targets supports and is NOT A GOOD INDICATOR of the promises Riot made to help improve the lives of supports!

Parceval1 votes

Exactly this. I, too, am a support main.

Last Survivor641 votes

It needed every part of the nerf. There's no reason it should reduce damage and aa speeed decrease. Most assassins don't even aa much. This really hindered many adcs from doing anything in a fight at all. Exhausting an ulting zed still is going to punish him hard for going in.

Niaphim1 votes

{quoted}

Exhaust shouldn't be used so offensively, in my opinion.

Could you elaborate please? I think that using exhaust offensively is perfectly fine, it adds variety to summoner spells you can choose. You can pick ignite and do more damage or you can pick exhaust and make your opponent to deal less damage. Supports can take exhaust or ignite (and even heal in some rare scenarios), so the nerf just looks like restriction for the sake of restriction.

Parceval1 votes

The point is that the mr/ar debuff was excessive. I don't disagree, my contention is with the atk spd. It should have stayed.

ValyrianBlade6 votes

I don't get all the hate.

First - it wasn't just mid. Top Lane was disgusting with exhaust. Junglers were also running smite -exhaust in some cases.

The spell was way too good. Low cooldown, both offensive and defensive. Point and click turns any lost fight in to a free kill.

There's no argument for it to have the mr and armour reduction. No reason for it. Exhaust should never have done that in the first place.

As for attack speed - it's removal wasn't necessary but it's not unreasonable. Exhaust already reduces damage dealt by 40%. Why should ap champions and ad casters only suffer 40%, but auto attackers also had 40% compounded on that from an AS slow? I think it puts exhaust in a spot where if it's weak we can up the damage reduction to 50% and be more fair across the board. There's no reason for an adc to be hindered more by exhaust than Jayce or zed is.

Now, this is a scary buff to vayne to be fair (since true damage isn't reduced and you're not slowing her w stacks anymore). She may need some nerfs after this (especially since she went unnerfed after the stealth changes). Xin/Yi/Nocturne/Trynd/Jax should be on a lookout list but none of them seem too alarming pre-nerf.

Heroquet1 votes

I think i've seen that somewhere...

V7.5 ◾ Removed: Reducing target's attack speed by 30%. ◾ Removed: Reducing target's resistances by 10.

V4.13 ◾ Damage reduction reduced to 40% from 50%. ◾ New Effect: Now reduces the target's armor and magic resistance by 10.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

I think i've seen that somewhere...

V7.5 ◾ Removed: Reducing target's attack speed by 30%. ◾ Removed: Reducing target's resistances by 10.

V4.13 ◾ Damage reduction reduced to 40% from 50%. ◾ New Effect: Now reduces the target's armor and magic resistance by 10.

Exactly :P Not quite the same (since it had the AS slow before) but I think that's the direction it should go.

Parceval1 votes

The spell has been nearly the same for 3 seasons. The last time it was changed was in mid season 4, how is it SUDDENLY too good? What are the conditions that are making it so?

The 10 mr/ar debut could potentially be so strong now because of the rampant lethality. I get that. So, lethality is a new stat and it's influencing everything in the game.

But the atk-speed? What?

And, I thought, exhaust was designed to be a bot-lane support summoner. So REMOVING the auto-attack debuff makes it less attractive to supports, which seems very counter intuitive.

Akali is SO HOT4 votes

And it's been overpowered since the end of Season 3 and is the reason Assassins are rarely seen in pro play.

Parceval1 votes

? If it's been overpowered, then why wasn't it used rampantly until now?

And are you seriously telling me that assassins have been rarely seen in pro play... for all those seasons? I seem to recall a rather extensive use of Zed and Nidalee, and many others.

EDIT: What's more! My primary issue is with the atk spd nerf, which is not even relevant to assassins at all.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Zed was broken back in Season 3, but, since then, he's really only been a pocket pick in certain matchups against lane matchups and team comps that he can actually survive against. Nidalee doesn't really count as a true Assassin. It's always been used, but it's just seen more play lately than before.

Parceval1 votes

We can look this stuff up man... don't be a Trump O_o.

http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/2014_Season_World_Championship/Picks_%26_Bans

Zed was pick/ban in Season 4.

Last Survivor641 votes

Same reason urgot hasn't go a rework yet and why it took them so long to change yorick. There's plenty of times riot won't change things. And assassin's stopped showing up for most of s4 besides like lb and only are finally seeing some zed now because of how strong lethality is. Even when you'd see yas vs zed in s4 they both ran exhaust because it protects them from the other assassin has well has having more kill pressure from the armor reduces and ms slow.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

The spell has been nearly the same for 3 seasons. The last time it was changed was in mid season 4, how is it SUDDENLY too good? What are the conditions that are making it so?

The 10 mr/ar debut could potentially be so strong now because of the rampant lethality. I get that. So, lethality is a new stat and it's influencing everything in the game.

But the atk-speed? What?

And, I thought, exhaust was designed to be a bot-lane support summoner. So REMOVING the auto-attack debuff makes it less attractive to supports, which seems very counter intuitive.

It's been indirectly buffed by how everything else has gotten weaker, and how people have realized through this that Exhaust is viable on non-support. Exhaust has been sleeper-OP top/mid since the start of Season 5 - people just didn't know it.

The nerfs to Teleport helped exhaust top lane tremendously. Everyone went to ignite, but exhaust has always been better than ignite (if you're not 100-0'ing your target or against someone with loads of healing). When teleport had a shorter cooldown AND a 1 second faster channel it was basically mandatory top lane. You needed to use it to TP to support your team (4sec channel is fast enough to get in to a fight and have an impact, 5sec is slow enough to let you TP to your death after your allies already lost).

For mid lane, exhaust gained a lot of power because the meta shifted back towards assassins which meant you need a way to deny their burst. Heal isn't an option since they're running ignite. Barrier works too, but it's strictly defensive. Exhaust can also be used on the offensive - you can stay in the 1v1 duel knowing you have this summoner to make sure you win it (and once they realize it and try to run, you can use the same summoner to stop them doing so).

Again - the attack speed slow isn't something that NEEDED to be removed. The armor and MR reduction were the necessary target. I maintain that i think it's healthier to make exhaust do a consistent amount of damage reduction though, which will allow it to be stronger overall if necessary. I don't think it's very fair that Exhaust only reduces Zed or Syndra's combo by 40% (and much less since they'll start the combo before you exhaust) but it will reduce the damage output of Yi or Xin by 64% (1 - 60% * 60%). Also seems unfair that exhaust is stronger against ADCs like Jinx or Caitlyn than it is against ADCs like Varus or Jhin or MF. The ADCs that have been OP lately and seeing lots of other nerfs weren't nearly as affected by the AS slow part of exhaust as the crit-reliant ADCs were and that probably isn't a healthy thing to maintain. Why should Jhin get an advantage in the 2v2 when both ADCs get exhausted? It just seems pretty arbitrary - slow attack speed, why not make it increase cooldown of anything cast by 50%? Straight damage reduction is consistent, and really seems a more fair approach. If the summoner is over-nerfed, beef it up to 50%.

Mizuki Zahra3 votes

summoner 11 summoner 4 support game op I guess since I cant summoner 3

Parceval1 votes

Actually, yes. I used to run that in seasons past, and I will look to new ideas like this again.

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

I used to aswell and I even ran summoner 11 summoner 3 mid with talon pre rework lol but with the whole 'u go smite sup and I report u get banned' crap going around and threats like that I stopped.

marginalMegladon2 votes

Agreed, I don't understand this change at all.

RexSaur2 votes

Exhaust was disgusting and you're disgusting for defending it.

Oh of course you do you are a support main, now you cant just point and click and invalidate the 20-0 carry, oh no such a terrible thing!

Parceval1 votes

? Really? That's not my argument. But nice conversation.

Kaioko1 votes

How is this hurtful to supports? The spell was shredding armor and magic resist on the target and letting burst damage dealers do their job even better. Not only that but since it was used on your ADC, if you didn't have an ability reliant ADC like MF, Jhin or Varus, you were double hit from the attack speed slow and the damage reduction.

This ensures that ADCs aren't completely screwed over when it is now used on them. A buff to traditional ADCs is a buff to the supports that those ADCs rely on.

Parceval1 votes

Because of the atk spd nerf.

By removing the atk spd nerf you're removing it's primary target: adcs.

It also means that AP Carry and Healer Style supports are now strongly buffed (and they were already inordinately represented).

Athenes Lulu1 votes

If anything, it is pretty much a "free ticket to win trades" button, which makes solo laning really stupid to play against.

The armor, MR, and attackspeed reduction are all pretty unnecessary tbh.

MissingKayo1 votes

what is this garbage joke post

Parceval1 votes

? What is this garbage joke comment.

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