Elemental Dragons: A R9K Concern

Parceval··101 votes·17,724 views

Two things I'd love to see clarified and/or changed.

First: Let Earth Dragons be DEFENSIVE. I'd be far more interested in the ability to amplify my own towers and base. We need something to combat the dive-game, and an Earth dragon is the perfect ticket.

Second: If the dragon spawns are random, and if we can get at most ~5 spawns before 35m, then won't this system inevitable result in certain comps just being lucky based upon which dragons spawned? Let's say, for example, that you're a comp that relies heavily on movement speed based initiation. If the Air Dragon spawns first, your team just won the lottery, but if it spawns 4th, you can get at MOST one. Isn't that a bit of an unfortunate reality which negates strategic play? Or is the lottery intended?

EDIT: I would like to note that I definitely love the direction this is taking. No matter how it plays out, it will make for a more engaging, and better, Rift.

EDIT2: I can't change the title of the post... very annoying how it swapped to R9K instead of RNG... I think you might have some board bugs Rito. <3

109 Comments

RiotRiot Axes64 votes

We're looking to avoid teams being randomly favored/disfavored with the design of the buffs.

Your Air Dragon example is actually a really good one for this. You haven't necessarily hit the lottery if Air Dragon spawns and your comp relies on movement speed initiation. You've hit the lottery if you have that comp and you successfully control Air Dragon - if you claim the buff. Out of combat movement speed is great for a team that relies on movement speed initiation, but it's also great for avoiding getting initiated on by that kind of team - if the Air Dragon spawns and the other team gets it, that could be a disaster for you. By picking a movement speed initiation team, you've increased the value of Air Dragon for both teams, not just your own team.

The other example that we've tossed around a lot is Water Dragon being great for poke comps. That's true; it is, if you can get it. It's also great for fighting against poke comps because of the health regen. By picking a poke comp, you make Water Dragon more valuable to both teams, not just your own team.

I is Illiterate6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:18:44.676+0000)

We're looking to avoid teams being randomly favored/disfavored with the design of the buffs.

Your Air Dragon example is actually a really good one for this. You haven't necessarily hit the lottery if Air Dragon spawns and your comp relies on movement speed initiation. You've hit the lottery if you have that comp and you successfully control Air Dragon - if you claim the buff. Out of combat movement speed is great for a team that relies on movement speed initiation, but it's also great for avoiding getting initiated on by that kind of team - if the Air Dragon spawns and the other team gets it, that could be a disaster for you. By picking a movement speed initiation team, you've increased the value of Air Dragon for both teams, not just your own team.

The other example that we've tossed around a lot is Water Dragon being great for poke comps. That's true; it is, if you can get it. It's also great for fighting against poke comps because of the health regen. By picking a poke comp, you make Water Dragon more valuable to both teams, not just your own team.

And this is the problem. Given a certain team comp, a certain element may be highly valuable to both teams, and if that particular dragon spawns at a time convenient for one team, then that team just got lucky. Even if the other team got all other dragons, the valuable dragon could spawn when the other team is set up for it. Hence the RNG concerns.

Captain Aishi15 votes

that concern is alleviated by knowing which type of dragon will spawn the moment the previous one dies if you need a fire dragon and you or the enemy team kills an earth one, then you see on the timer that the next one will be fire, you have 6 minutes to get ready to set up for it

Masalar12 votes

This is, I feel, a case less of RNG and more of skill. If a dragon is spawning and you aren't able to contest it...why? What happened that lead to that scenario? Did they catch some of your team off guard? Did they out rotate you? It's not like the buff randomly appears on the map and it's first come first serve. "Convenient time" doesn't really exist in LoL. An easy Dragon is either earned through good play, given through bad play, or contested.

RiotRiot Axes37 votes

[{quoted}](name=I is Illiterate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:42:36.877+0000)

And this is the problem. Given a certain team comp, a certain element may be highly valuable to both teams, and if that particular dragon spawns at a time convenient for one team, then that team just got lucky. Even if the other team got all other dragons, the valuable dragon could spawn when the other team is set up for it. Hence the RNG concerns.

We communicate the next Dragon to spawn in game from the moment the previous Dragon dies, so you'll always have 6 minutes to prepare.

Wolfeur3 votes

But what if a team gets the good dragon during THEIR powerspike? Then they can easily take it and the other team won't be able to recover from it.

Cosnirak24 votes

This is like saying "what if one team drafts a comp around power spiking at 20 minutes so they can take the baron?" Yeah, that's an option, that's fine. Also they aren't that powerful of buffs.

Wolfeur1 votes

Except it's not RNG-based, you know it's gonna happen. With elemental dragons, you can't say what will happen. IMO, the draft step should not look like "Do we try to counter their powerspike or do we let them have the chance to possibly get the best dragon at the best time?".

Cosnirak16 votes

I think you're vastly overestimating both the dragon buffs as well as the thought that goes into drafting in any games other than pro games.

Wolfeur2 votes

Yeah, I actually don't mind a lot for soloQ dynamiQ, but I like pro play and this is something that I think should be reconsidered. Maybe the impact will be minor, but it will be present.

Cosnirak10 votes

I love watching pro play and I don't think this will matter much there. So much of the randomness is mitigated by the 6 minutes to prepare for it that both teams have. Additionally, power spikes alone don't necessarily guarantee a secured dragon. And if it's such a big deal that a team is willing to put a lot into securing it the other team can likely recognize this and take objectives elsewhere to help offset it. When weak teams go up against the best it's bound to look a little too good to anyone who doesn't take that into consideration though.

Is there some potential advantage there? Sure. But we accept far more randomness from critical strikes alone. Overall I give it a shrug and a "wurf."

Pikmints4 votes

If a team were to have obtained a powerspike either through getting kills, taking turrets, or have chosen champs that get their powerspikes at particular times, then the team that got enough kills to hit their spike/got the map control from turrets/timed their fights strategically should be rewarded.

Bear in mind that these all still apply to dragon as it is on live, but only with these more impactful dragons is this a concern. Do bear in mind what the new definition of "good dragon" will be in this new iteration, as all it will mean is that the dragon is relevant to either team, as that would automatically give it value to the other team and that's not only talking about denying it. If a poke heavy comp got the water buff then their poke potential would increase accordingly, whereas the other team getting it would increase their poke-resistance accordingly. Of course if the new stacking buff became so overwhelming that a team with certain buff combinations became unbearable then Riot would be able to change the numbers accordingly to manage the issue.

An example of a "bad dragon" would be a water one where say both teams had negligible poke and any champ that used mana had enough regen to not worry about it. Another would be an earth dragon during a game where neither team comp had split pushing potential nor seiging power, meaning turrets would only fall after successful teamfights like they would have anyway.

TLDR - A team powerspiking should take advantage of that accordingly as it means they successfully remained a threat. If a team can't recover from a dragon capture then either the winning team successfully abused whatever advantages they had or the numbers on the buffs would need to be balanced.

Wolfeur2 votes

The concern is that the award they get is random. Do you want to see a match and after it you would say "Damn, if only they got this dragon instead of this one when they had the chance to take it!" ?

Parceval4 votes

Since one of the core tenants of this season was to provide meaningful progress away from the "island" of top lane, could we perhaps provide strategic play elsewhere on the map? Specifically, what if capturing Rift Herald allowed the team to DECIDE what dragon will spawn next? This would tend to reduce the sensation of RNG (even if you design this perfectly, the feeling will percolate), and provide a meaningful tug toward top.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e00000002,timestamp=2016-04-19T22:42:37.883+0000)

so you'll always have 6 minutes to prepare.

EDIT: That's not true of the first dragon, which will certainly favor junglers with excellent early clear, particularly since early vision is especially weak this season.

iMaB3AST2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e00000002,timestamp=2016-04-19T22:42:37.883+0000)

We communicate the next Dragon to spawn in game from the moment the previous Dragon dies, so you'll always have 6 minutes to prepare.

You know the easter egg where you can see dragon fly by at top, would it be a good idea to show the type of dragon that will spawn there all the time? I mean I can imagine people dying just to see what dragon is going to spawn, lol

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e00000002,timestamp=2016-04-19T22:42:37.883+0000)

We communicate the next Dragon to spawn in game from the moment the previous Dragon dies, so you'll always have 6 minutes to prepare.

Yo Axeman, I do think it would be nice to have a defense option come from Earth, even if we lose siege from it. AX PLS

xelaker1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:18:44.676+0000)

We're looking to avoid teams being randomly favored/disfavored with the design of the buffs.

Your Air Dragon example is actually a really good one for this. You haven't necessarily hit the lottery if Air Dragon spawns and your comp relies on movement speed initiation. You've hit the lottery if you have that comp and you successfully control Air Dragon - if you claim the buff. Out of combat movement speed is great for a team that relies on movement speed initiation, but it's also great for avoiding getting initiated on by that kind of team - if the Air Dragon spawns and the other team gets it, that could be a disaster for you. By picking a movement speed initiation team, you've increased the value of Air Dragon for both teams, not just your own team.

The other example that we've tossed around a lot is Water Dragon being great for poke comps. That's true; it is, if you can get it. It's also great for fighting against poke comps because of the health regen. By picking a poke comp, you make Water Dragon more valuable to both teams, not just your own team.

riot raises deflector shields with bs comment about how snowballing teamcomp with certain dragons can't happen because everyone can snowball with them ...[zombie-brand-facepalm]

DoubleTongue11 votes

Well imagine the enemy team is a poke comp and your team is hard engage. The Water Drag gives you increased health and mana regen. Now the "poke" comp has a harder time poking you down since you have that bonus regen giving you more opportunities to hard engage and beat them down.

Conversely, imagine the poke comp team gets the air dragon. Well now it's harder for you to engage because of their movement speed boost outside of combat. and though they cant use the movespeed offensively as well as you can, they can be just as annoying defensively.

The RNG already makes it hard enough to stack the same dragon with people only being able to get a maximum of 3 of one kind and that's considering you get every single dragon.

I think it will make play around dragon a lot more impactful/meaningful instead of 1st drag...3rd drag.........OH GOD DONT LET THEM FINISH 5TH.

The way dragons currently work is that if one team gets two dragons, even if the other team manages to start taking a few, its highly unlikely that any one team will reach the only dragon that really matters. Thus minimizing its effects and almost negating the need to start taking them in the first place.

  • Old dragon was a sprint to get the gold value of a kill on each member of your team and snowballed games hard. Next to no value late game.
  • Current dragon is a marathon that almost no one has the will(or time) to finish, and if you do then you auto win the next fight. Only Valuable late game and forces you to play it through til the end.
  • New dragon is more like a sprint medley where you have various strong points but still a desire to win each bout regardless.
Aeszarck3 votes

Extremely well put.

AMYS GRAVE6 votes

First: Let Earth Dragons be DEFENSIVE. I'd be far more interested in the ability to amplify my own towers and base. We need something to combat the dive-game, and an Earth dragon is the perfect ticket.

I would like to mirror the OPs desire for this ^

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:18:44.676+0000)

We're looking to avoid teams being randomly favored/disfavored with the design of the buffs.

Your Air Dragon example is actually a really good one for this. You haven't necessarily hit the lottery if Air Dragon spawns and your comp relies on movement speed initiation. You've hit the lottery if you have that comp and you successfully control Air Dragon - if you claim the buff. Out of combat movement speed is great for a team that relies on movement speed initiation, but it's also great for avoiding getting initiated on by that kind of team - if the Air Dragon spawns and the other team gets it, that could be a disaster for you. By picking a movement speed initiation team, you've increased the value of Air Dragon for both teams, not just your own team.

The other example that we've tossed around a lot is Water Dragon being great for poke comps. That's true; it is, if you can get it. It's also great for fighting against poke comps because of the health regen. By picking a poke comp, you make Water Dragon more valuable to both teams, not just your own team.

Quick question: Can the same dragon element spawn twice? Or is it that once Water Dragon number 392874 has been slain, that's it for the whole round?

NullDragon1 votes

Last game I had on the PBE, our team had 3 Water Dragon marks and 2 Air Dragon marks. Multiple dragons of the same color can spawn and they do stack.

kDrakari3 votes

Air Dragon and Water dragon seem like the best examples of this dichotomy (that is, each dragon's buff is helpful for a particular strategy, but also strong against that strategy) but the other two don't seem to follow that guide as well.

Fire dragon buff seems to just overall be "higher offensive power", which arguably benefits a team that wants to fight OR the team they're fighting, but it doesn't benefit different team compositions equally. A highly tanky team, or just an early-game team that wants to overpower with base damage, would have much lower benefit from the AD/AP multiplier since they don't purchase as much to be multiplied, nor would they benefit much if they did. A straight-up damage multiplier, or some penetration (total armor % penetration would make it effective regardless of enemy team comp) would (imo) do a better job of being appealing to all champions rather than only having value in denying the opponent for some. Having it only apply against enemy champions would also help focus it as a "teamfight" buff rather than just making carries stronger at everything. Alternatively, having some special effect when an enemy champion is CC'd might do an even better job; not saying this particular implementation would be perfect, but something like gaining movespeed for every nearby enemy champion affected by CC would make it desirable for both engaging or disengaging, bringing it in line as the buff that you want if your team wants 5v5 teamfights, while also being a buff you want yourself if the enemy wants to engage on you.

The Earth dragon buff misses the mark even more. Bonus damage to objectives rewards offensive sieging, or rushing neutral objectives (such as sneaking a baron while the rest of your team sieges offensively, or if you want to siege but even with Earth dragon buff you need more power). However, it has no power at all defending against a siege, and very little when contesting an objective that the enemy already started. The only situation where it "counters itself" is if objectives are being traded: the team that is better at taking objectives wants to emphasize their win condition, while their opponents can use the buff to bring their objective taking power to a more competitive level. To phrase it differently, it's a buff which only encourages tower/objective trading, rather than contesting which was one of the main objectives of the changes in the first place (or so I'm told). Again, I can't guarantee that this particular thing would be a good implementation, but I think that a better option would be if the Earth dragon gave a buff which either activated at those objectives but only affected champions, or which only activated while near one of those objectives when an enemy champion is also involved. For example, it could grant a shield like the 2nd tier side lane turrets. For a team that wants to make aggressive objective-focused plays this would discourage the enemy team from contesting because of the advantage you get, while a team that is defending against that style would have the edge they need to stand on even ground with the team that otherwise had the confidence to be aggressive.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Dragon Chroma Pack impacts professional play, but I'm also interested in one more thing: There have been some vague mentions that the spawn order of dragons is "not purely random" i.e. it isn't just a 25% chance of each at any given spawn. Is there any more information about that? Like, is it weighted to be less likely to provide streaks or large stacks of a single dragon buff, or the opposite? Or maybe it's dependent on how long the previous dragon went unkilled, so a hotly contested dragon type is likely to come up again while one that could sit for a long time is undesired so won't show up again? Or maybe the game attempts to analyze the compositions themselves and provide its best guess for the popular dragons?

Spoofghoul1 votes

I like the concept. you basically turn drake into what baron is for siege/poke comps

Like baron is super effective vs poke/siege but also the most effective for that comp, everytime one of these comps is on the rift that buff is highly contested.

I am a bit concerned about a couple things still.

Mainly earth dragon, because if it spawns first and your team gets it you can snowball really hard simply by outfarming/outpushing counterjungling and taking objectives faster. It might just be too snowbally.

I like how you give teams incentive to go for dragons they want, and every dragon gives good buffs. But grabbing the right buff, air drake for rotation game or water for a poke team. Makes them suddenly a real nuisance to deal with.

This can snowball really hard, and im okay with that but, It would be nice to have other means to deal with the different comps other then being forced to contest this dragon.

For 2 reasons

  1. Teamfight comps will reign supreme, they can just go about contesting every objective with their superior teamfighting, and now have the ability to deal with any possible other comp due to picking up more sustain speed or objective pressure, or just more damage to contests stuff even easier.
  2. Certain teamcomps grabbing certain dragons will snowball out of controll.
Mhihnj1 votes

What do you think about Vel'Koz concerning the elder dragon, As Vel already does true damage with his ult, wouldn't it apply a true damage DOT on every tick? And what about Teemo shrooms?

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:18:44.676+0000)

We're looking to avoid teams being randomly favored/disfavored with the design of the buffs.

Your Air Dragon example is actually a really good one for this. You haven't necessarily hit the lottery if Air Dragon spawns and your comp relies on movement speed initiation. You've hit the lottery if you have that comp and you successfully control Air Dragon - if you claim the buff. Out of combat movement speed is great for a team that relies on movement speed initiation, but it's also great for avoiding getting initiated on by that kind of team - if the Air Dragon spawns and the other team gets it, that could be a disaster for you. By picking a movement speed initiation team, you've increased the value of Air Dragon for both teams, not just your own team.

The other example that we've tossed around a lot is Water Dragon being great for poke comps. That's true; it is, if you can get it. It's also great for fighting against poke comps because of the health regen. By picking a poke comp, you make Water Dragon more valuable to both teams, not just your own team.

I love how you just ignored the thing he said about earth dragons giving buffs to towers.

TotalJerk1 votes

The issue is that even if the rewards are equally valuable to both teams for this very reason, it still makes it so that the stakes of each particular dragon is determined by RNG. It would be like if Dragon gave a random amount of gold, even if this is broadcasted this it still adds an element of randomness to the macro game.

What if you draft a comp around early game dragon control, and the dragons just end up being worthless for the comp you created?

RoakOriginal1 votes

I am bit concerned about usefullnes of Eart dragon... Other 3 give similar bonuses to attackers and defenders.

For example Water - hp/mp regen... It helps you siege, since you can poke more, and eat more poke/tower hits yourself, but also helps sieged team if they get it, since it helps them to survive a siege easier and shun opponents away with bonus mana regen.

Air - it helps comps based on rotations to outmaneuver their opponents, but it also can help comps that were not meant to be as good at it, to not fall for it, since they can now keep up with enemy in regards of map speed.

Fire - killers kill faster, tanks kill faster, attackers kill faster, defenders kill faster... It helps everyone...

Also every time you get it, you are also stripping opponents of bonuses they would want...

Earth - bonus dmg to objectives... And here it is... Its awesome for proactive part (attacker)... But getting it as defending side, aint giving you any bonuses... It just removes them from your opponent... And while this can imo be the strongest out of 4 buffs (cheezy barons? splitpushing?), it can look as least rewarding one to inexperienced players, creating some sort of imbalance in dragon attention.

TheSushian10 votes

My only concern is how Rift Herald is now no longer a concern, and how Dragon is much higher in the priority chain thanks to its new incarnations. This means top lane may be turned back into an island again because of how important the dragon changes are.

charcharmunro6 votes

Rift Herald's getting changes on the PBE, too. Instead it grants a buff when no allied champions are nearby, instead of a mini-Baron.

Aeszarck2 votes

It's also longer.

HayRoss13 votes

I liked top lane being an island though

Spaceman5pff12 votes

Remember when top lane was a true island? You could take ignite without ADC crying... Always melee vs melee unless someone was experimenting

Good times :)

Spaceman5pff2 votes

How is dragon a bigger priority? These are the same 5 buffs that exist in the current iteration that is on live, it is just a different system of delivering them.

Rift herald got a MASSIVE buff, and you get a reliable buff (the same every time). Dragon, however, will be more valuable to you at some times over other times.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

How is dragon a bigger priority? These are the same 5 buffs that exist in the current iteration that is on live, it is just a different system of delivering them.

Rift herald got a MASSIVE buff, and you get a reliable buff (the same every time). Dragon, however, will be more valuable to you at some times over other times.

When was mana regen a dragon buff?

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Ok ya got me, Water Dragon is something new.

My point is, by and large, the buffs do the same things. HEAVEN FORBID that a stationary buff that everybody can contest and is ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE be strong.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Ok ya got me, Water Dragon is something new.

My point is, by and large, the buffs do the same things. HEAVEN FORBID that a stationary buff that everybody can contest and is ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE be strong.

But from what I heard, you can get the same buffs over and over.

So instead of getting one speed up, one turret taking buff, and one damage up, you can get an insane amount of turret damage and a little regen, or 3 "damage to champs" stacks and a little movement speed. Maybe you get 1 of each? Just depends on which one spawns and whoever gets them.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

and as such, controlling the dragon area plays a large factor in earning these buffs. Mid, Jg, ADC, and Supp can all contribute to warding the area, meaning that it isnt on the shoulders of one person.

Partholonian1 votes

And when could you get 3 stacks of first dragon?

Wheatloaf10 votes

Which dragon spawns may be random, but which team gets it is not, so I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. The buffs overall being too powerful, and thus mandatory, is a more likely issue.

Yordle Potluck2 votes

Tots agree with earth dragon's being defensive, great idea mate.

AVL Prince2 votes

The thing about that is that creating a dragon that is purely defensive is universally good on every team. The point of the dragons is that each one serves to a unique team. Poke comps will like Water dragon and wind dragon. Sieging comps will like Earth dragon and Water dragon, etc etc. Each dragon serves a specific team comp. Purely Defensive dragons by nature simply can't do that.

Parceval1 votes

Actually, I love the IDEA of what you're suggesting, but apparently that isn't what they want:

{quoted}

  • The buffs are designed to be appealing to both teams, even if the two are running really different comps. Water, for example, gives poke comps mana to poke harder, or their opponents health regen to resist poke. The exact value of a buff will vary team to team, like blue buff or baron, but it should never feel like dragons spawn are extremely appealing to one team and not worth taking for the other. The Elder Dragon buff also offers universally valued power, both from itself and prior buffs collected, regardless of element.
TurquoiseYoshi5 votes

What Meddler means is that the value will be different from team to team without being completely worthless for one side. Let's say that we're on live. Both teams want dragon equally because the stats essentially mean the same to both teams. This ends up in the buffs feeling fairly generic and not very fun. However, if we look at something like blue buff, it's better for some champions. If it wasn't a good chunk of XP and gold for the jungler, a team with Rumble JG and Yasuo mid may never really take it. This isn't what Riot wants for the dragons, since they want each one to be contestable in some way. Riot wants a split between the two. If we go with the Water Dragon example, a team with Rumble and Yasuo (and insert low-mana cost ADC/Supp/Top) would, once again, not really need it. But they may still contest it, since it gives a good buff to the enemy team, who we'll say is a poke comp, and still gives some nice health regen. The Yasuo/Rumble team would have an interesting choice to make: Get it ASAP and don't let the poke comp get it, wait for the poke comp to come for it and contest it, cross-map a Rift Herald or even Baron, or try to push in towers to get ahead for the opposing push.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=WC Prince,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iw38mkWO,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-04-19T20:10:42.182+0000)

The thing about that is that creating a dragon that is purely defensive is universally good on every team. The point of the dragons is that each one serves to a unique team. Poke comps will like Water dragon and wind dragon. Sieging comps will like Earth dragon and Water dragon, etc etc. Each dragon serves a specific team comp. Purely Defensive dragons by nature simply can't do that.

Well really regardless of what happens both teams are going to want the dragons, regardless of what effects they give. More stats from an objective is still more stats, even if they're not as effective as a different set of stats.

MEMEME6701 votes

Yes, but the importance of each Dragon is different, leading to interesting and strategic choices.

Like, if you're poke comp vs engage comp and Earth Dragon spawns, you might decide to simply try and siege instead of prioritizing it, because that Dragon is worth comparatively less to both sides than if an Air or Water Dragon had spawned, in which case it's much more likely both teams would be contesting it if they could.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but the importance of each Dragon is different, leading to interesting and strategic choices.

Like, if you're poke comp vs engage comp and Earth Dragon spawns, you might decide to simply try and siege instead of prioritizing it, because that Dragon is worth comparatively less to both sides than if an Air or Water Dragon had spawned, in which case it's much more likely both teams would be contesting it if they could.

I still maintin that those buffs are so good that anyone would want them, or would want to have them just to prevent the other team from having them.

Bladeglory1 votes

Well, yes. If the decision is to take it or not take it, it's fairly obvious. However you often have more to consider. Could you also take a tower, maybe two, instead? If the dragon buff isn't too amazing for either of you, maybe you can start pushing into their base, like what we currently do with the weaker dragon buffs. Maybe instead of taking it, all you really need to do is stop them from doing it, forcing them to back and then backing yourself... after you start the lanes pushing.

Riot's strategy is to make the buffs reasonably important for everybody, but I do think there's just enough of a difference between them that some teams will prioritize them slightly differently.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Well, yes. If the decision is to take it or not take it, it's fairly obvious. However you often have more to consider. Could you also take a tower, maybe two, instead? If the dragon buff isn't too amazing for either of you, maybe you can start pushing into their base, like what we currently do with the weaker dragon buffs. Maybe instead of taking it, all you really need to do is stop them from doing it, forcing them to back and then backing yourself... after you start the lanes pushing.

Riot's strategy is to make the buffs reasonably important for everybody, but I do think there's just enough of a difference between them that some teams will prioritize them slightly differently.

Massive regen? Massive dueling power? Massive tower destroying power? Massive movement speed?

I honestly don't see any NOT wanting these. Plus, elder dragon (the one that spawns post 35 minutes) has its buff scale with the number of elemental dragons you got. In short, nothing short of an inhib turret and an inhib would be worth going for over the new dragons.

Erockandroll2 votes

one, even if that would fit Earth dragon better thematically, Riot is trying to avoid the stallouts. So they wouldn't implement excessively defensive boosts.

two, Riot's intent was to add variety in a way that doesn't make the game telegraphed. BUT, in a way that doesn't throw the game one way or the other. Each buff was designed to give bonuses that are relevantly comparable, and keeping the power of synergy relatively low.

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