Why does Avarice Blade give Crit, but also gold for successfully farming creeps?

x No Heart·Oct 15, 2015·2 votes·1,268 views

Crit = Unpredictable farming Gold per creep = Wants reliable farming

EDIT: Farming, not last hitting. There are multiple ways to farm and control waves.

DOUBLE EDIT: Yo, remember ? Avarice doesn't build into solely the ADC-centric Shiv -- Ghostblade for AD casters.

One out of every ten attacks will not go the way you plan them, assuming you have no innate crit (Tryndamere, for example) or some other crit modifier (Yasuo / runes). This could use a quality of life change.

44 Comments

WarlockLawOct 15, 20154 votes

If you are farming correctly, crit never plays into last hitting. Simple as that.

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you are farming correctly, crit never plays into last hitting. Simple as that.

Read above, last-hitting isn't the only way to kill minions. The idea that you should only last hit with this item is extremely simple-minded, so yes, what you said is as simple as that.

WarlockLawOct 15, 20151 votes

If you are pushing then you won't always get perfect cs amyway so don't expect it too. Also at worse this messes with one out of every ten minions. Also you could just avoid attacking minions that are in a range that an rng crit will ruin

FiveofswordsOct 16, 20151 votes

if you are pushing, idk what adc u use, but generally you use abilities to make this faster and cleaner. for example with cait, when the wave comes i note what melee minion is getting attacks, i aa the other 2 and then use a q which finishes off all 3 melle miniosn and 1 shots the casters behind them. crit wont matter.

x No HeartOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

if you are pushing, idk what adc u use, but generally you use abilities to make this faster and cleaner. for example with cait, when the wave comes i note what melee minion is getting attacks, i aa the other 2 and then use a q which finishes off all 3 melle miniosn and 1 shots the casters behind them. crit wont matter.

I dunno what world you live in that Avarice only builds into an AD carry item.

FiveofswordsOct 18, 20151 votes

right....i guess caitlyn is not an ad carry...my bad...

x No HeartOct 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

right....i guess caitlyn is not an ad carry...my bad...

I never said that. You're ridiculous.

Thief of TimeOct 15, 20153 votes

Your last hitting anyway, why does it matter if you crit

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=TriTail Anarchy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-15T16:53:10.532+0000)

Your last hitting anyway, why does it matter if you crit

Because you don't always last hit with Avarice, plus Crit and reliability are two heavily opposing concepts?

The HeraIdOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because you don't always last hit with Avarice, plus Crit and reliability are two heavily opposing concepts?

You should only be attacking the minions when they are low enough to kill without crit. Last hitting is getting the dmg to kill it, and very, very, VERY rarely do you rely on crit to get cs.

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You should only be attacking the minions when they are low enough to kill without crit. Last hitting is getting the dmg to kill it, and very, very, VERY rarely do you rely on crit to get cs.

That's the point, you rely on Crits not to fuck up the CS so you can lifesteal three hits and still get the CS instead of hitting twice, getting a crit, and missing the CS.

DrNovaOct 15, 20151 votes

Wtf you talking about. You last hit and get the kill, or crit and still get the kill. Htf would a crit cause you to miss cs

Hyrum GraffOct 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Wtf you talking about. You last hit and get the kill, or crit and still get the kill. Htf would a crit cause you to miss cs

Because you're controlling the wave. Imagine this: one 3/4 hp minion, one 1/3 hp minion. I do 1/4 hp per AA.

I aa the 3/4 hp minion for lifesteal. Now I need to AA the low hp minion or it's going to die. But my first AA crits, and now both minions are low! I have to miss a cs (or use an ability).

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-15T18:24:20.725+0000)

Because you're controlling the wave. Imagine this: one 3/4 hp minion, one 1/3 hp minion. I do 1/4 hp per AA.

I aa the 3/4 hp minion for lifesteal. Now I need to AA the low hp minion or it's going to die. But my first AA crits, and now both minions are low! I have to miss a cs (or use an ability).

Wow, the first person to actually understand something beyond basic AD carry last hitting. (Which by the way, this isn't even an ADC only item...it builds into item 3142 , which everybody is forgetting.)

Thank you so much, my headache is feeling a bit better.

Hyrum GraffOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wow, the first person to actually understand something beyond basic AD carry last hitting. (Which by the way, this isn't even an ADC only item...it builds into , which everybody is forgetting.)

Thank you so much, my headache is feeling a bit better.

Something something gameplay & bronze \s

Actually though, I think it's a problem with people's attention spans and ability to think deeply into what you're saying, not their League. Try remaking your thread with my comment (or something like it) copied into the OP (ie, spell it out for people in a succinct way) and I bet you'll get a much better discussion.

x No HeartOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-15T22:51:55.138+0000)

Something something gameplay & bronze \s

Actually though, I think it's a problem with people's attention spans and ability to think deeply into what you're saying, not their League. Try remaking your thread with my comment (or something like it) copied into the OP (ie, spell it out for people in a succinct way) and I bet you'll get a much better discussion.

Never said it was because they were bad, they're clearly just not understanding the concept of basic wave control, sustain, and situational autoattacking.

Hyrum GraffOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Never said it was because they were bad, they're clearly just not understanding the concept of basic wave control, sustain, and situational autoattacking.

"Never said they were bad, they just clearly aren't good." -XXMC 2015 :P

x No HeartOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-16T03:39:09.549+0000)

"Never said they were bad, they just clearly aren't good." -XXMC 2015 :P

I mean, I have the reflexes of a dead squirrel, but I'm not (completely) bad, and just because they don't understand situational gameplay doesn't make them bad. (Yes, I know you were joking.)

Hyrum GraffOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I have the reflexes of a dead squirrel, but I'm not (completely) bad, and just because they don't understand situational gameplay doesn't make them bad. (Yes, I know you were joking.)

Upvoted for dead squirrels. Make sure to initialize your variables, kids!

(veryinsidejoke, ignore me).

MatezoideOct 15, 20151 votes

You should have accounted for the crit chance.

Hyrum GraffOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You should have accounted for the crit chance.

-.-

tfw you don't know if sarcasm because internet

MatezoideOct 15, 20151 votes

''I know i might crit this minion, but the odds are sooooooooooooo slow, so lets just attack anyway without giving a second thought.''

You knew getting a crit on the minion would be bad, but you took the chance anyway because you wanted to heal. Whats so bad about that?

Hyrum GraffOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

''I know i might crit this minion, but the odds are sooooooooooooo slow, so lets just attack anyway without giving a second thought.''

You knew getting a crit on the minion would be bad, but you took the chance anyway because you wanted to heal. Whats so bad about that?

I don't think there's anything inherently bad. It's just an interesting contradiction, that an item you buy when you want to farm up, makes it more difficult to farm up. Whether you consider that to be bad is your opinion, but I think it's certainly something worth discussing.

Personally, I don't love it. I think of avarice as an item to buy when I'm behind and just want to farm up. If that item makes it harder for me to farm up, It's not serving its role as well as a comeback item. Maybe it's not supposed to be a comeback item and that's OK (more of a, "buy this when you're ahead and can freefarm" item?). What do you think?

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wtf you talking about. You last hit and get the kill, or crit and still get the kill. Htf would a crit cause you to miss cs

Because the only way to farm is to last hit. You shouldn't ask "WTF are you talking about?" when somebody is introducing you to, clearly, a new concept.

67chromeOct 15, 20153 votes

Why does Avarice Blade give Crit, but also gold for successfully farming creeps?

It's a gamble, a situation item, and item meant to have trade-offs.

If it was Gold generation + something incredibly powerful/useful early, there would be no trade off in purchasing one at all. Avarice would be an optimal first purchase on a very wide range of champions, and there would be very few situations in which an Avarice rush would not be the clearly optimal path.

Items with components also need a stat component items have, and as an auto-attack based item: Avarice blade is limited to AD, AS, and Crit as it's options.

Crit is the weakest early, strongest late stat of those 3 - making it the most optimal pairing (in a design sense, as it's the most sub-optimal pairing for players) to offset the clear advantages gold generation has when rushing an item. This makes Avarice an interesting Choice, rather than obliterating choice by being the only item to get.

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's a gamble, a situation item, and item meant to have trade-offs.

If it was Gold generation + something incredibly powerful/useful early, there would be no trade off in purchasing one at all. Avarice would be an optimal first purchase on a very wide range of champions, and there would be very few situations in which an Avarice rush would not be the clearly optimal path.

Items with components also need a stat component items have, and as an auto-attack based item: Avarice blade is limited to AD, AS, and Crit as it's options.

Crit is the weakest early, strongest late stat of those 3 - making it the most optimal pairing (in a design sense, as it's the most sub-optimal pairing for players) to offset the clear advantages gold generation has when rushing an item. This makes Avarice an interesting Choice, rather than obliterating choice by being the only item to get.

tl;dr: None of what I said has anything to do with the point you made.

Hyrum GraffOct 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's a gamble, a situation item, and item meant to have trade-offs.

If it was Gold generation + something incredibly powerful/useful early, there would be no trade off in purchasing one at all. Avarice would be an optimal first purchase on a very wide range of champions, and there would be very few situations in which an Avarice rush would not be the clearly optimal path.

Items with components also need a stat component items have, and as an auto-attack based item: Avarice blade is limited to AD, AS, and Crit as it's options.

Crit is the weakest early, strongest late stat of those 3 - making it the most optimal pairing (in a design sense, as it's the most sub-optimal pairing for players) to offset the clear advantages gold generation has when rushing an item. This makes Avarice an interesting Choice, rather than obliterating choice by being the only item to get.

I've always seen it as an item to get when you're behind and just want to sit back and farm up to try and catch up.

extra deluxOct 15, 20152 votes

Avarice Blade is designed to generate gold by farming (and gp10) to make up for a kill ~300 gold or so, that you've fed to the enemy team OR to help scale a late game carry who relies on farming. It isn't supposed to make your farming worse, it is to reward you for farming properly (last hitting). The only way it would be considered "unpredictable farming" is if you're pushing a lane. If your goal is to hard push waves, then you should have gotten a pickaxe or bf; avarice is the wrong item for that. So really, if you want reliable farming with avarice blade, make sure to put yourself in a situation where you're not hard pushing waves, but rather freezing them.

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=extra delux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-15T17:04:31.118+0000)

Avarice Blade is designed to generate gold by farming (and gp10) to make up for a kill ~300 gold or so, that you've fed to the enemy team OR to help scale a late game carry who relies on farming. It isn't supposed to make your farming worse, it is to reward you for farming properly (last hitting). The only way it would be considered "unpredictable farming" is if you're pushing a lane. If your goal is to hard push waves, then you should have gotten a pickaxe or bf; avarice is the wrong item for that. So really, if you want reliable farming with avarice blade, make sure to put yourself in a situation where you're not hard pushing waves, but rather freezing them.

Conceptually, it's just not logical, regardless of if it's practical. Also, a lot of champions that love Avarice (Tristana, Yasuo, Tryndamere) like to push, so your point about Pickaxe or BF doesn't cover every case.

extra deluxOct 15, 20151 votes

Actually, conceptually, it's very logical. The logical concept? Simple.

All gp10 items give bonus stats OTHER THAN gp10.

(This is just how Riot designed the game. There is no why. This is like saying why do all champions have abilities AND passives? --Because that's how Riot designed them.)

Building on my previous point, this specific gp10 item is for ad carries(adc's or champions like tryn). Other gp10 items like spellthief are optimally designed for mages playing support. Spellthief is not popular among mid lane champions because it is inefficient, and provides a very LIMITED, WEAK BUILD PATH UPON UPGRADING. Also, the gold generated from this item is mostly granted to you upon attacking an opponent, where as in mid lane, you will lose the trade so poorly due to the lack of combat stats it provides compared to other options. It is simply not META(most effective tactics available). While avarice blade's passive gold is granted through farming, not fighting. In some situations, this IS meta. Below is an explanation of a situation in which building avarice blade into Youmuu's can be the most effective tactic available.

*Note: because this is a situational item, I gave an example of why a Pickaxe could be a better option.

**You said nobody made a claim for item 3142 . Here is one. -----You build Youmuu's primarily for speed, AND if the stats of ad, armor pen, and crit are OPTIMAL for your build. -----------Example: Master Yi. Master Yi loves all those stats. He loves to crit, he loves ad & armor pen. He loves to move fast too. But why does he need crit? The crit helps simply helps him clear monsters in the jungle, and extra combat stats for dueling champions. There is no missing last hits in the jungle(unless it gets stolen of couse--but this is why you have smite to secure opjectives). This is a logical example of building Youmuu's out of avarice blade. If you want an explanation for static shyv I can make one too, but I feel like it's much more obvious and easier to find an ideal situation to build it in compared to Youmuu's.

Also, if you have any questions about specific cases then please specify them and I'll be happy to help if I can.

x No HeartOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=extra delux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-15T22:21:30.517+0000)

this specific gp10 item is for ad carries

Stopped there.

item 3142

extra deluxOct 17, 20151 votes

As you read past the part where you stopped, you will see that I specifically talk about item 3142 only because you mentioned nobody else made a claim for it.

I'm trying to help. If you're just looking to argue, then this will be my last message.

x No HeartOct 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=extra delux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TwsAJmkW,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-17T21:13:19.967+0000)

As you read past the part where you stopped, you will see that I specifically talk about only because you mentioned nobody else made a claim for it.

I'm trying to help. If you're just looking to argue, then this will be my last message.

I'm not looking to argue, just not going to read into messages that are focused solely on never-do-anything-but-last-hit-ADC mentality. It was a red flag, but a false one. My apologies.

junglerboy16Oct 15, 20152 votes

two different iterations of reliability. you could argue the exact same thing about any other crit item (why does IE give reliable damage and RNG damage? why do PD or Shiv do that?). You're comparing apples and oranges and quite frankly it's nonsensical and kind of weird.

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

two different iterations of reliability. you could argue the exact same thing about any other crit item (why does IE give reliable damage and RNG damage? why do PD or Shiv do that?). You're comparing apples and oranges and quite frankly it's nonsensical and kind of weird.

Because crit doesn't hurt damage, whereas crit hurts your ability to control the way you farm, which is a large part of the item. Just because you can't comprehend the comparison doesn't mean it's nonsensical. :^)

DrNovaOct 15, 20152 votes

That's stupid. Crit doesn't affect farming. Last hitting is independent of crit. Look at very non ADC non yas. Last hit with no crit.

x No HeartOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's stupid. Crit doesn't affect farming. Last hitting is independent of crit. Look at very non ADC non yas. Last hit with no crit.

"Farming can only be done by last hitting." And MY idea is stupid. lmao

junglerboy16Oct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"Farming ~~can~~ SHOULD only be done by last hitting." And MY idea is stupid. lmao

FTFY

junglerboy16Oct 15, 20151 votes

You must be really bad at farming if crit messes with how you last hit.

You last hit by AAing when you would kill them with or without a crit (unless you are totally uneducated on what the term "last hitting" means) so if you crit the creep, it's just overkill, if you don't crit the creep, you kill it anyway.

MarthianOct 15, 20151 votes

1st thing to get out of the way: LoL's Critical strikes isn't pure RNG, it's Pseudo-RNG, which is completely different: If you haven't critted in awhile, you will crit more often in future hits. If you've crit a lot recently, you will crit less often in future hits. This probability fluctuates constantly.

2nd Only a select few ADCs use Statikk Shiv. Almost EVERY ADC scales better with Phantom Dancer (Higher Crit chance, higher attack speed, not stopped by creature collision), and even the few ADCs that use SS generally will do better with PD. Shiv is basically for when you are behind or can reliably poke. Otherwise in a fight, Dancer is superior.

x No HeartOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

1st thing to get out of the way: LoL's Critical strikes isn't pure RNG, it's Pseudo-RNG, which is completely different: If you haven't critted in awhile, you will crit more often in future hits. If you've crit a lot recently, you will crit less often in future hits. This probability fluctuates constantly.

2nd Only a select few ADCs use Statikk Shiv. Almost EVERY ADC scales better with Phantom Dancer (Higher Crit chance, higher attack speed, not stopped by creature collision), and even the few ADCs that use SS generally will do better with PD. Shiv is basically for when you are behind or can reliably poke. Otherwise in a fight, Dancer is superior.

Because Avarice is an item that only builds into an AD carry item.

MarthianOct 16, 20151 votes

ADC-centric Shiv

I only addressed that part. Never said it was only an ADC-only component.

FiveofswordsOct 15, 20151 votes

uh the only thing you need to 'plan' in order to last hit is that you do at least enough damage to kill a minion. crit is not affecting this at all. Just hit each minion once

Sightless66Oct 16, 20151 votes

You can attack minions at times when a crit won't cause you to miss them. It takes practice, but it's perfectly doable. There's nothing wrong with it giving crit and being a gold generation item. It builds into two crit items, so it gives crit. Makes sense to me.