@Riot Meddler, What is your idea of counterplay?

RedTrinketGoneHa··1 votes·310 views

I'm just curious what yours/Riots definition of counterplay is? As we know with the recent nerfs to Veigar and Kassadin, their winrates have significantly dropped, mid 30's, cause they were both changed to the point where you don't even have to think what you are going to do when playing vs them. In the patch rundown a Rioter said that you couldn't pick Lux in to Kassadin because he would just catch and kill you, this is pretty much true at some extent with every single champion in the game, if you counterpick yourself, you're most likely just going to be food for the enemy team. Veigar's E delay was introduced to prevent him from cheesing with the stun and 1 shotting you, we'll let me ask you this, has anyone ever thought of possibly not going close to Veigar when he has his stun up or at least waiting for a tank to eat the stun then go in to kill him? I don't know, these changes just baffle me, would love a response, thanks.

P.S. Having no counterplay and choosing NOT to counterplay are two very different things, if you want no counterplay look at people like Zed, Lee Sin, or Vi, at least Jarvan IV was able to be CC'd out of his combo or stopped, you can't CC Zed while he's travelling to an opponent via ult, same with Vi, and Lee Sin's kit is just overloaded, Kassadin had counterplay in the fact that if the enemy ADC had GA or Banshee's you wouldn't be dealing a lot of damage to them or 1 shotting them

3 Comments

MarkedOfKane2 votes

Counterplay: Can be assassinated easily.

RedTrinketGoneHa1 votes

{quoted}

Counterplay: Can be assassinated easily.

With GA, or Zhonya's? I don't think so. Lazy people don't want to build it tho so they die fast then Q-Q on threads

SmokingPuffin2 votes

In reading these comments, don't get me wrong. The Kassadin and Veigar nerfs are absurdly overdone. Really bad balance work. However, these champions are legitimate problems in design, and both are in need of rework.

you couldn't pick Lux in to Kassadin because he would just catch and kill you, this is pretty much true at some extent with every single champion in the game, if you counterpick yourself, you're most likely just going to be food for the enemy team.

Couple things here:

  1. Riot hates hard counter lanes. They're fine with picks that give you an advantage, but not picks that make the other guy food.
  2. Kassadin isn't a Lux counterpick. He does about as well against her as he does against 50 other champions.

Kassadin was a serious balance problem at the competitive level. Probably the most serious one Riot had. Nerfs were urgent.

has anyone ever thought of possibly not going close to Veigar when he has his stun up

Veigar's stun range is huge and the cooldown is short. Not getting close to Veigar implies losing objectives. It isn't reasonable counterplay.

or at least waiting for a tank to eat the stun then go in to kill him?

Veigar stunning only a tank is Veigar misplaying. This is the basic problem with Veigar -- his success or failure is up to him, not the opponent. Nerfing E to not be 99% of his power budget should allow Riot to buff Q and W to make him feel like more of a whole champion and less of a gimmick. Of course, whether Riot actually does this, I don't know. They haven't been super reliable lately when it comes to fixing champions they break.

if you want no counterplay look at people like Zed, Lee Sin, or Vi, at least Jarvan IV

These champions all have tons of counterplay. You are confusing "this champion is too strong" with "there is no counterplay to this champion's play patterns". These are all cases of champion tuning being wrong, but the designs are pretty healthy.

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