I'm seriously getting pissed off with Katarina

RedTrinketGoneHa··40 votes·3,997 views

Coming from a former Katarina main, something needs to be done about this champ. Yes I am making this post cause I just lost a game to a Katarina, but how it happened is beyond my fkin knowledge as to why it's allowed. I was 7-1 as Kassadin, she was 1-7. She went bot, I followed her, she killed my two team mates with like 200 health in 1 second before I could do anything, now this is where I have a problem. Off those 2 kills she got Zhonya's, and then she just snowballed out of control. You couldn't focus her cause she has statis and it's so easy to negate focus with statis. Then once she picked up a few more kills she got ludens, dcap etc. So my question is although she is an assassin, why is her scaling so poorly tuned?

I don't care about her q, w, or e scaling. I'm talking about R with the 750 base damage 250% AP ratio and 375% bonus AD ratio. Who at riot thought it would be a good idea to give an AOE spell that much base damage and scaling? Let's look at Kassadin's old scaling for example. His Q did 220 + 0.7 AP, E did 280 + 0.7 AP , and R did like 120 + 80%. I have no problem with this as it is mostly single target damage except for E, yeah he's a mobile assassin and he's very slippery and such, but so is Katarina, and I'll tell you why, Kassadin will usually go in kill someone then get out cause he has Riftwalk, well with Katarina's passive she can technically use Shunpo 5 times in a short window when you're teamfighting, assuming you hit everyone.

It has 700 range, (old kassa range), Does damage, and gives damage reduction. All of this scaling and utility on an assassin is obviously not healthy as Riot is trying to prove with Kassadin, so why does someone like Katarina get all of old Kassadin's scaling in 1 ability? Sure you're able to CC it, but what aren't you able to CC in this game except unstopable force, and assult and battery, a few others too that I can't think of ATM. Anyways my point is that Katarina's ult scaling needs to be toned down, it use to be 150%AP, god knows why they brought it up to 250% when she was already melting people pre nerf.

P.S., you can say CC her all you want, it won't matter since it's solo queue and everyone wastes their CC at the beginning of the teamfight, and there i am the idiot who saved his Null Sphere to silence her ult, but nope I can't even target the fker cause she jumps somewhere new every 2 seconds, and I end up accidentally targeting it on someone else, god forbid she also has zhonya's and avoids all your damage all together.

TL;DR Yes I'm mad that I lost to a trash Kat, you can say well " she beat you so obv she isn't trash", trust me the way she was playing all game was trash. Fact of the matter is all you have to do in a teamfight as Kat is stand behind the team hiding, wait for the enemy team to waste CC, shunpo in the press R, THAT'S IT. No positioning required, no thinking, just braindead button pressing. Her scaling needs adjustments. Base health reductions won't fix any problems and she does too much damage and her staying alive isn't the problem.

171 Comments

LadyRenly17 votes

You realize kass' Q negates her ult, right? If you followed her like you said, how did she get a double

Stiv123411 votes

If they have 200 health like OP said, Kat doesnt need her Ult to kill them. She will just QEW twice and boom double kill.

Sona Ping11 votes

If they have 200 health like OP said, no one needs to ult them; they were pretty much already dead. Most any champ could get a double kill off that; it was bot lane's fault for sticking around with no health or wards.

I Miss Cannon1 votes

That's still bullshit when someone who was 1-7 suddenly destroys everyone out of 2 kills

Ancestor0072 votes

Even if you are 1- 7, 200 damage is not that impossible to deal

LaceUp231 votes

To be fair, he didn't say she shouldn't be able to. He was saying a 3-7 champ shouldn't be able to dominate.

LordGeovanni2 votes

if you are fed against some one its common that the oppoent goes else where to catch up and come back

Divewing12 votes

You have champs that have reset gimmicks (Kha Trist Akali etc) which work fineish because only 1 ability gets reset. When the champion's full gimmick is: "I kill people for resets to kill more people"? No. Like seriously how the hell do you balance that, it's a stupid passive.

Feathermane5 votes

What irks me is that this is so obvious, yet there is no sense that people understand it. It doesn't matter what your scaling or base damage is, if you get to spam every ability 5 times, you're going to do a lot of damage. And there is no way to balance it because what situation are you balancing for? No resets is obviously a terrible balance point, but if you balance for 2 resets for example, then your laning sucks etc. Terrible design in every way.

Bamboy3603 votes

{quoted}

What irks me is that this is so obvious, yet there is no sense that people understand it.

Well said. Katarina's brokenness plus the fact that everyone dismisses it seriously makes me rage, sometimes making me quit playing for several days.

Ravenstiker1 votes

yeah, if the whole team is grouped up and like doing baron, and they are a bit low but they are doing baron because they have tons of life steal, kat throws 1 dagger and kills, 1 more a kill, she can probably throw 5 daggers and just get a penta that way

EvilRabbitt2 votes

But if they are a bit low, any Assassin or someone with resets should grab that Penta. Seriously. I do it with Kayle, Fiora, Jinx etc. Group of low hp players? Free money. Doesn't matter if you are Katarina or Alistar, enjoy your penta.

Saianna11 votes

Problem with Kat is: Riot keeps on removing any tools to fight against her. Targeted CC? Like only few left. Insta CC? Nope

And all other CC that you could use against her is: a) easy to miss / easy to dodge b) slow projectile/takes some insane 5 minute animation (obvious exaggeration).

And on top of that her combo doesn't require animations. Which means she can insta kill someone in split second.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

You should be CCing her when she's ultling, at that point she's a sitting duck. Most supports have at least 1 ability they can easily hold off for her.

I Miss Cannon3 votes

Most people don't seem to realize her QEW also deals tons of damage and should be enough to jump on a weakened squishy who already got some damage in a teamfight, then she got her reset and the whole enemy team is fucked. People who say such things probably played against extremely awful Katarinas who engage a teamfight or something. You also have to use CC to peel away their jungler, toplaner plus the CC of many champs are part of their combo to deal damage. If i play Katarina or any champion who is screwed by CC i also just take QSS, you can even upgrade it to Merc Scimitar because she also has AD scalings........

NemeBro8 votes

So looking at this game, Katarina died 16 times compared to Tryndamere's 5, and got less kills.

I don't think Katarina was the reason you lost the game. You lost the game because Captain Invincible Lategame got full build before anyone else.

I Miss Cannon1 votes

she still dealt the most damage, 5k more than the second-highest damage dealer, their adc...

NemeBro8 votes

{quoted}

she still dealt the most damage, 5k more than the second-highest damage dealer, their adc...

Tryndamere doesn't carry games by doing the most damage. He carries them by being invincible 1v1 (there is no one on OP's team who could have stopped Tryndamere splitpushing 1v1, maybe not even 1v2), and Tryndamere was off doing things like taking two inhibitors and their turrets in a time frame of five minutes. During that time frame, he was actually the one getting most of the kills for his team.

Furthermore, the OP's claim is that focusing her down was impossible. If it was so impossible, why did she die more than anyone else in that game?

I also can't help but notice that literally only two people had MR items, and they weren't even finished. Skarner has a spectre's cowl, and Thresh an Aegis of the Legion. That's a big chunk of the reason Katarina was doing so much damage. Her getting ahead helped.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

You bring up a very important point: **The simply fact that this game is 5v5, and not 1v1. ** Yes, they targeted Katarina because any time they didn't, she'd kill three allies.

Meaning that they didn't have their CC for Tryn. Either way, they lose. That's the flaw in he balance.

The Ecdysiast8 votes

"But you should've chose Malzahar, Urgot, Skarner, and Warwick if you wanted to stop her. It's not like she has a cleanse, and she doesn't have her own CC."

^ Riot's logic concerning Katarina. Why she has a 9001% scaling ultimate that targets three people is beyond me.

EvilRabbitt2 votes

No, against the teamcomp he mentioned you grab Kayle. Absolutely grab Kayle. Especially since he was last pick, he should have seen (assuming he wasn't even last pick of the entire game) at worst 3/5 of the enemy team. 4 of them are melee's with limited gap closing, and 1 was a short range adc. That screams Kayle to me. That's like Kayle was yelling at you from the game going "PICK ME GOSH DA@#$@#".

Frank The Dank6 votes

Well for one you never said anything about their team all you did was complain about kat so that was where my point came into play, so idk why your talking about their team comp. Besides that fact if you were that fed and she was that behind you should of been the one roaming as a "kassadin" ya know infinte flashes, who snowballs insanely well.

Narasimha5 votes

I'm talking about R with the 750 base damage 250% AP ratio and 375% bonus AD ratio. Who at riot thought it would be a good idea to give an AOE spell that much base damage and scaling?

Incidentally, Fiddlesticks's ult does more. And hits more people. And he can use Zhonya's in the middle of it. Also, 750 base is pretty damn fine considering it takes her 2.5 seconds to do it. If there is a problem with Kat, this isn't it.

NineTailedMystic5 votes

Considering Fiddle ults cooldown is 130 seconds at max rank, compared to Katarina's ult at 45 seconds which can get COMPLETELY reset with 3 kills/assists, potentially enabling her to use it twice in one team fight, and almost a third time assuming she had 100% kill participation that fight. Fiddle is also 100 units shorter in range, but can also move during ult.

EvilRabbitt4 votes

Fiddle can keep you in his ultimate, cast spells during the use, use it to teleport, and move/be-cc'd. Kat has to stand still for a long time. If you get hit by Kat's full combo, and you can't do something- you either played improperly or it was blind pick. No offense, it's how it is. If you know she can 100-0 you, you save a spell(s) to negate her kill potential. If it was blind pick, and you got nada- welp, you got nada. I would personally take Fiddle's ulti over Kat's any day of any week.

NineTailedMystic4 votes

And then because of animation cancelling she can burst you down faster than you can CC her in a 1v1 with Q E W R, if your CC has a cast time.

EvilRabbitt4 votes

Kat doesn't cancel, Riven does. Kat only got her animations smoothed out, they aren't cancellable. She cannot beat a fiddlesticks in a 1v1. That's a wet dream. Fid would be happier than happy if kat showed. HE'D BE ECSTATIC. It's like "YES SOME FREE SHUT DOWN GOLD". Seriously. Katarina isn't some GOD OF YOLOQ. She's garbage. I tell everyone, their is NO WAY she can win a game by herself against a team that is actively thinking while they play. Not sure what this primal fear of katarina is but whatever lol. It's kinda funny. If everyone thinks she is op, then when I see her I can count my game as a 5v4 free win.

Ancestor0072 votes

Someone who understands

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I never said anything about OP, I just think she isn't fun to play against. You can decimate her in lane, one or two kills from a roam or a clean up and suddenly she's back to being a monster (Which I believe was the point of the topic?). Kat does beat fiddles unless he has his cursor behind him prepared for a shunpo to fear/silence, or his finger waiting on zhonyas, since even if they can't be cancelled her animations come out extremely quick.

Ancestor0071 votes

There's this thing called a ward (item 2044 ). You might have heard about it. It counters pretty much everyone.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Considering I DO ward, you're preaching to the choir there. Always have upgraded trinket, always buy a pink before then to cover the other side. Ping MIAs on her whenever I don't see her, etc. Beyond that it's not my fault if she slaughters my bot lane, and proceeds to most likely roll the game.

Ancestor0072 votes

Then, it's bot's fault. She did what an asassin does. She roamed.

lB2kGRlc8y6 votes

And fiddles doesn't have a 700 range blink that reduces damage he takes, and he takes mana to cast shit, and he needs to channel before cast, and... the list goes on... Bringing up fiddles in contrast to Kat is as dumb as using Singed to justify Kalista.

RedTrinketGoneHa4 votes

And I mean I didn't have the choice to ban her either cause I was like last pick. Even though you shouldn't have to ban her after her last set of nerfs, she is still pretty retarded to deal with after laning phase.

EvilRabbitt4 votes

If you were last pick, and you knew you were fighting Kat, you should have made it YOUR JOB to shut her down. Not "oh kass sounds fun, lets do that". NO. You are last pick. You are against Kat. YOU DENY HER. It isn't that hard. Katarina is so far into trash tier it's comical. She can pubstomp players who can't coordinate, focus, or delegate with their own champion kits or their own teammates. If you have the mind to remember "hey Kat's around, and she can blow things up" you will kill her. It only takes one person. It doesn't take a team. Kat is highly squishy. And before you go "oh well, you know, she'll 100-0 me" lemme just point some broken champions to deal with miss trash tier: Poppy Kayle Tryndamere. Yep. These guys can go mid if you are fighting a kat. Because kat cannot survive a lane that they are aggressive in, and she can't roam faster than they can (in fact, they will ALL roam faster since they ALL have move steroids). I'm just trying to help mate, not trying to be rude. Just exhausted seeing "XYZ assassin killed me and my team, please nerf". Please forgive me if I come off aggressive. Just amazed no one sees that Assassin's are countered by supports, but no one appreciates a good support (yes, Lulu will shut down ALL assassins).

Avios12 votes

Yup, only if it were that simple. she gets 1 kill and she can start snowballing the heck outta everyone, it only takes one kills, not to mention teamfights where she is jumping on everyone's back where no one can keep up with her, and gotta keep in mind that in soloque people do whatever they want, and don't coordinate very much.

Ravenstiker1 votes

He was winning lane with 7 kills tho

EvilRabbitt2 votes

With Kassadin. Also, if he was winning that hard he should have been able to deny her roam (seriously, its Kassadin). Just breathe heavily on her when she goes bot, and she will never try that again.

Yasuo or GTFO4 votes

What pisses me off about her is her targeted, no cost, low cooldown Q. Doesn't feel too good middle when you toss your Q out as whatever champion you are, for it to either miss or for her to shunpo out of it's path and just toss a Q at you. Not to mention you can stay out of it's initial cast range and it'll bounce to you from minions regardless.

Aeolian Melodies2 votes

He had Kass, complaining about point and click Q sounds funny.

Yasuo or GTFO5 votes

If you're referring to how Kass and Kat both have point and click Q's then there is a difference. When I see Kassadin throw his Q I can also see his mana bar deplete, however little it may be doesn't matter, at least it's going down. Katarina, on the other hand, can toss it whenever it's up with the only repercussion being that it pushes the wave. Not to mention that Kass's can only hit one target, whereas Katarina's can hit multiple.

SlampieceHawke3 votes

I love keeping her in check w/ Diana . Unfortunately, some of my fellow silver players would rather stick to their own favorite mid champs in champ select. I never ban her as I will be the first one to lock in Diana if a Kat is locked and it usually goes great. I really LOL when I see her first picked on the blue side as I'll lock in that Diana and the majority of our team gets some heavy cc champs. Be sure to rush that item 3001 ! XD

Rayzien1 votes

What i hate most about good katarina players is that she hides and comes out of nowhere and kills the carry instantly during a team fight. With the main damage dealer being dead, its no use whether I as a tank with cc manage to stun her or not. We automatically lose the team fight. The only solution is ban her or don't pick a fight before you manage to kill her somehow.

Br4ndon1 votes

Kats problem is not her ult. Her ult has the most counterplay in her kit. When people say just CC her theyre under the impression that her Ult is her only ability.

Kats problem is that her Q E W happens instantly. That bit of burst alone is enough to kill or almost kill any squishy. While that kind of damage isnt really that insane because shes an assassin, the problem is that it happens instantly and you cant CC before she gets that combo off.

EvilRabbitt2 votes

You can't cc talon during his combo either, but no one complains. Also, her combo is almost instant. She stays in animation with her Q until it hits a target, and canceling said animation is impossible afaik.

Br4ndon1 votes

while his combo is fast, its not as instant as kats. you can flash out of some of talons burst. But with kats burst its unavoidable and instant

EvilRabbitt2 votes

Did you read my note about how q works? She is locked in animation until it lands. Faster close, longer far. Talon can ult, sprint, blink, toss, auto, empower, and then hydra in half a second. I know, I've done it. Kat is motionless until her q hits which can take a full second.

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