The roposed Black Cleaver changes look pretty good but...

Alëk·4/11/2015, 5:20:15 AM·2 votes·667 views

I am concerned on the effect it will have on bruiser champions. On champions like Garen, Wukong, Riven etc. it will greatly help against mobile ranged champions who are hard to Ahri stick to Kalista Kalista Kalista . Those champions' kits, especially on higher level play, are extremely problematic for any champions other than assassins and even then can still be problematic. However, more than anything I'm concerned with the effect it will have on assassins. For pretty much all assassins BC is an optional item if not a preferred build item. Assassins that already have enough mobility and ability to target squishies Zed -ferocious glare- will suddenly gain 80 MS on kill. In addition to items like BotrK and Youmuu's this will make them even harder to catch. All AD assassins will benefit greatly from this, especially those that already have excessive mobility. It's still in testing but just wanted to get that out there since Riot seems to "overlook" things like this and wait until a huge problem is made over it before nerfing it to hell. Last thing I would want is them to do is nerf the Arm Pen claiming that it was problematic when the problem is clearly the mobility you're adding to it.

Just fyi for those who dont know BC is being changed on pbe to have a phage passive while removing brut from build.

7 Comments

Rebonack4/11/2015, 5:28:53 AM3 votes

The loss of flat pen and a chunk of AD is a pretty big hit to assassin-y folks. In most cases Yomama's Ghostblade would be the go-to item if you want to ruin a soft target's day really quickly.

Cleaver will be more targeted for tanky folks who want that CDR to be a larger over-time threat paired with the heavy %shred they can pass around like herpes. Garen, Ren, Wukong, Shy, even Panth if you're going the tanky route. But I don't think it would be that good of an idea on Zed or Kha or what have you.

Stonington4/11/2015, 7:46:47 AM1 votes

Yeah, it's a buff to the item. It's not a buff to AD assassins. It's most assuredly a nerf for burst champs. Unless you consider Mantheon an assassin. I'm sure he'll be happy with this.

Yandere Carry4/11/2015, 9:33:57 AM1 votes

its also losing AD in exchange for HP

Lean into it4/11/2015, 10:55:04 AM1 votes

i love the current cleaver on wukong, the stats are good enough to let you personanlly do lots of damage while giving your team a damage buff as well

the PBE cleaver looks like complete shit, i honestly cant think of a champion that would want to build it, they completely remove the flat armor pen and lower the AD, for some worthless HP and extra CDR

if the cleaver change goes through (we all know it will) im gonna be sad as hell

R1104/11/2015, 11:26:47 AM1 votes

I don't think the new Cleaver is beneficial for AD assasins because it loses the flat penetration and they will probably want to kill squishy targets without a lot of armor where flat penetration has a higher impact than %-penetration. I think it will be the most beneficial on more tanky champions that deal physical damage and want to stay in a long fight. 400 HP, 20% CDR and sticking power is great for tanky champions while allowing physical damade dealers on their team to handle high armor targets better.

Edit: Didn't notice that Rebonak basically said the same thing as me already, whoops!

Critmaster Garen4/11/2015, 2:52:57 PM1 votes

movement speed does not counter kallista. she always jumps the same distance away from you. no matter how fast youre running at her. if she has enough attack speed, running faster at her, just means shes jumping back further. nothing but hard cc can deal with her.

though yes, the movement speed on spellcasts will be incredibly useful to stick to a lot of champions. if you can get in range in the first place, that is.

{quoted}

i love the current cleaver on wukong, the stats are good enough to let you personanlly do lots of damage while giving your team a damage buff as well

the PBE cleaver looks like complete shit, i honestly cant think of a champion that would want to build it, they completely remove the flat armor pen and lower the AD, for some worthless HP and extra CDR

if the cleaver change goes through (we all know it will) im gonna be sad as hell

extra cdr and movement speed. yes, i dont like the 10 ad loss either. but everything they added is pretty awesome. the 10 flat pen loss isnt that big of a deal.