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I didn't know I was gonna get "The Hands," Darius

TheGutt··13 votes·2,512 views

Considering the recent changes to Darius, I would say he's a bit more balanced now, and by no means un-counterable per se. But considering how easily it is to engage as Darius, one laning with him wouldn't be stupid enough to get juked and pulled...right? Well in some cases this just doesn't matter - his E range is considerably misleading (to user and opponent). Maining Darius toplane (an incredible feat, I know) last season I found that I would land more hooks more often than not and think 'I really shouldn't have landed that'. My point being, Darius' E, Apprehend, is represented poorly, to both the user and the opponent. I would like to debate on either shortening the actual pull gradient to the targeted area it actually represents, or lengthening the target area to represent the actual pull range. (The above link representing a clear exaggeration, but still funny and relevant - please dont comment on the events of the video, rather, your experiences regarding being questionably pulled)

37 Comments

SwiftKitten887 votes

if dariu's pull actaully calculated range when it LANDS and not BEFORE the animation starts there would be some counterplay to it.. the reason he is broken is there is NOTHING you can do once the animation has started which is WHY is is broken. becuase as we all know ,the only indication to us as oppoents have to darius the he is going to use a skill, is his animation, and by that time its already too late to react.

i dont think darius needs and change to is damage.. i just think the game need to change the time when it calculated when your in range. and NOT make it be BEFORE the animation becuase thats broken as shit...

and thats not even counting the fact that every ability he has gives another freaking passive

TheDuelist9991 votes

The thing with his e is if your in range you should assume hes about to use it

Zarxis4 votes

The problem isn't the range or representation of Darius' pull, it's just the way it's coded. Riot changed its coding ages ago so that it pulls whatever targets were in its AOE at the very start (not at the time of the "pulling" animation). I don't think Darius deserves a nerf, but it is true that the animation appears to be badly timed because of the way Riot has it set to work.

TheGutt1 votes

Was the "pulls whatever targets were in its AOE at the very start (not at the time of the "pulling" animation)" intentional? How is that balanced? Nowhere does it say that in the tooltip or whatever either. Thats similar to flashing out of a thresh pull but still getting pulled, then what use does flash have then? Im not saying its a nerf either and i agree that he doesnt need one, I think this should just be accurate instead. Thanks for ur thoughts, i wouldnt have known

Scabz4 votes

well as far as i'm aware, back in patch xxx. they(rito) made it so moves like garens ult, skarners ult, darius ult, darius E, singed fling, etc.... moves once cast will go off no matter what. The only thing that can stop the move is death I presume. That also means even if you use "get out of jail flash" card, its a waste.

HeWolf1 votes

But Darius' E is not a targeted ability...

I think that they changed something about cone-abilities like Darius' E or Kassadin's E at some point between last 3 patches...

TheGutt1 votes

id like to second this that its not a targeted ability. if someone can find evidence of the cone based abilities like kasadins e and the damage being consistent even though the animation doesnt cover your champion. how are you humanly supposed to combat that then? you cant rely on the technology to guide you, so what use is it even? you cant dodge what you cant see, unless preemptively

HeWolf1 votes

Well, IMO it's not really a first priority problem, now that Darius is in a hard place right now and he's so reliant on his E that having it more reliability won't hurt anyone, because if he catches you is more your fault than a bug.

They could fix it so the graphics match the effect, but it wouldn't really make such a big difference. Also, it doesn't take Einstein's brain knowing when Darius is gonna use his E (Spoiler: Whenever he's near an enemy).

TheGutt2 votes

of course it doesnt take a smart person to dodge it...thats why i think the image should be represented fairly. if its telling you soemthing other than what it is, it is not what it is. it makes a huge difference. those few pixels mean life or death, with darius, that might mean the lane

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Can I just take a sidebar to say that Darius's E range makes it kinda sad?

Amumu Nautilus Thresh 1100 range on Q.

Blitzcrank 925 range on Q.

Leona 875 range on Q.

Darius 550 range on E...item 3070

HeWolf1 votes

It doesn't make any difference because it only catches you off-guard the first time. It's not unfair because once you know how it works, you can play around it easily.

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

id like to second this that its not a targeted ability. if someone can find evidence of the cone based abilities like kasadins e and the damage being consistent even though the animation doesnt cover your champion. how are you humanly supposed to combat that then? you cant rely on the technology to guide you, so what use is it even? you cant dodge what you cant see, unless preemptively

Cone abilities are coded as targeted iirc

They check where you are upon cast not where you are upon actual animation

Darius E was modified to check upon animation but its still basically targeted in terms of how it functions

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Cone abilities are pretty much targeted if they are in the AoE at the time of cast.

HeWolf2 votes

Except they aren't.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Except they are. Exactly like I said.

Educate yourself.

HeWolf1 votes

Targeted cannot be missed if casted. They aren't. How can you be so stubborn. Cone abilities are skillshots whose AoE is a cone. Educate yourself.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Cone abilities are pretty much targeted if they are in the AoE at the time of cast.

This is a fact.

The only exception is Kassadin's Force Pulse

HeWolf1 votes

Whatever, man. Sorry if my logic insulted your strong beliefs.

TheDuelist9991 votes

I can kill someone in fountain from outer turret with my w as cho. Heisen i think you need to educate yourself

HeWolf1 votes

I can understand that you are exaggerating but I don't really get what does range to do with the difference between a targeted ability and a skillshot.

I'll try again: A skillshot is an ability that doesn't need to target an enemy to be casted, so you can miss it if you cast it at a wrong moment. It's impossible that with this definition you keep saying that cone abilities aren't skillshots.

TheDuelist9992 votes

no im not exaggerating cones are coded funky and you can flash or base or tp mid animation and it will still affect its why I've started building rylais on cho even if you flash the w i still have you

HeWolf1 votes

Nice now you stick to the rational part of your point even though I've been criticizing the OTHER part which was the wrong one. I know cone abilities are hard to counter but I was saying that the CAN BE countered by anticipating them and flashing/going away BEFORE they are casted. There are like 3 of them in the game, so I don't think it's a very hard unbalance: Combo enabler on Darius and Kassa, and the main reason Cho can lane against mages easily.

TheDuelist9992 votes

You've just admitted cones work like how we have been saying they work. Do you just not like the vocab cameron was using. Anyway yes there is counter play but the tool tip should be clearer on how they work.

HeWolf1 votes

I didn't. But well I got tired of discussing with walls, think what you want.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Darius has horrid engage. What are you talking about.

Scabz1 votes

Lol, that's hilarious. In my opinion I'm all for making it so if you flash a pull you can get out of it. However I am biased because i've been destroyed by darius several times

TheGutt1 votes

Comments aside from the video, what about the actual representation of his pull? like does it even represent the right image? they need to fix the image representation imho, it just doesnt match up to what hes actually grabbing Darius

Akeydel1 votes

Can't say I main darius, only just got him and played a few games, but I'd argue that his pull length is, if anything SHORTER than the default skin animation indicates. The animation mind you, not the range indicator, I can't talk about that, I use smart-cast without range indicators. The video you posted has nothing to do with the length which you recognize, nvm.

KidSpectre1 votes

So, you know how Mord's E and Annie's W are pretty much instant? Darius' pull seems to be coded like that. It makes a "check" to see if the opponent got hit at the start, and then the animation follows through. This is also why you can't get "turning hits" with Annie's W. Even though the fire might visually hit enemies as you turn, if they weren't in the cone when you cast, you'll miss them.

TheGutt1 votes

Good input, but i think thats what most people are saying. its acting like a targetted cast, and annies w is really similar. i think that specifically since it is a cc'd actual friggin hook, this should be changed to act more like a hook - hit u win, outside the range, its outside. like blitz or thresh. because in the tooltip they call it a hook

Centuros2 votes

The problem is that, UNLIKE those others, he does not throw out a particle to grab people that one can dodge...

TheGutt1 votes

True, i still think it needs tightening tho. at least around the edges

LilxPaprika1 votes

i dont like it because it punishes good reaction time. slow reaction time... get to save flash for when i spawn. good reaction time get dunked on.

TheGutt1 votes

it certainly does, thats what i mean. you could have the best reaction, but to no avail. this should either be told in the tooltip that its considered a cone and works that way, or they should treat it as a hook or specify that its both or something

Panwar1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NovYokP4s4g

Lugg1 votes

Still one of my favorite videos.

Besteau1 votes

I remember pulling a soraka who flashed over a pit and grabbed threshs lantern while mid pull just to have her fly allllll the way back to me and die. I basically had the spell hit her before she flashed and it applied after she went all the way to thresh. (adc thresh)

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