Maybe there's a happy medium to the top lane cinderhulk issue?

IcyPepper··1 votes·429 views

Since items like item 3089 item 3031 exist to multiply dps to an extend, what if there was a tanking item for laners that did something similar?

Obviously, due to HP values (400 hp from spirit visage, for instance, compared to 120 AP from deathcap), a 25% boost to high numbers is way too powerful for a laning item that doesn't require sacrificing a summoner spell for smite or the income of a jungler, so what if we had a toned down version of cinderhulk that isn't sunfire's cape? I'm thinking about an item with a 10% hp boost, which isn't too overbearing and only really benefits champions that stack health in the top lane, and can easily be countered with item 3153 as leverage.

I'm interested in strategic diversity, but the community has been voicing their concerns. That was just my idea, and probably a heavily flawed one, but I want to hear you guys. Maybe cinderhulk needs another lovetap to keep from being overbearing, but is there a way we can give tanky top laners a little power, a little sweet deal, without making them too powerful and overbearing? Is there a way for both sides to win here, with a little debate and brainstorming?

7 Comments

BluePolarizer2 votes

The reason LCS tops take smite/TP is because 1. they will only pick champs with escapes for that and 2. because they expect to go against a lane swap thus will get near zero farm, so might as well double jungle for a while until they get the levels needed to 1v2.

AwesomeChad1 votes

Theres nothing stopping both the enemy top laner and bot lane support from taking smite to build cinderhulk. Late game, u have 2 monster tanks incredibly hard to kill (3 tanks if the jungler builds that item too). Keep smite in the jungle for junglers only please.

IcyPepper2 votes

They still sacrifice a summoner spell in order to do so.

shrugs

Just thought having an incentive to have a water-downed version and your key summoner spell might have both sides win in a way. Is there no compromise, or is Riot going to have to enforce the meta?

Angry Monster1 votes

You seem to be new to league with your comments. Back in season 3 we had the same problem so riot gutted the health jungle item. Riot has made it quite clear that jungle items are the way they are cause how tough the jungle is. These powerful jungle items are supposed to only be their to make the jungle relevant, not to make other lanes more powerful.

IcyPepper1 votes

taps chin

That is a very fair point. I came mid-season four, so I wouldn't have known that. Certainly explains why people are worried about the League of Tanks... it actually did happen, and balancing could be an issue.

Well, I'll see what other people say as well.

AwesomeChad1 votes

Let me tell you a story about how 3 tanks: The jungler, the top laner, and the support all have Skirmisher's Sabre with cinderhulk. Late gate, all 3 of these players have over 3000 hp. That forces the enemy adc to build Botrk but thats not the biggest issue here. These 3 players can smite the adc so that their abilities and dmg for the next 6 seconds deal TRUE DMG. 3 tanks with over 3000 hp that can deal true dmg to the enemy adc. How is the enemy adc expected to deal with this?

67chrome1 votes

I'm thinking about an item with a 10% hp boost, which isn't too overbearing and only really benefits champions that stack health in the top lane, and can easily be countered with item 3153 as leverage.

Well, you'd certainly need to give the 10% HP boost the same unique name as Cinderhulk, otherwise balance issues. Like - jungler getting both, being significantly better.


Secondly - Kingblade doesn't exactly counter HP stacking. Really solid HP items (likeitem 3068 item 3143 ) offer a solid chunk of armor, and running HP heavy builds without armor/MR is the same basic derp as running AD heavy builds without Crit or %Armor Pen.

Which results in situations like this:

Squishy has 1000 HP and 50 armor/mr, where 4% of their HP is 40 and they take ~31 damage. Fighter has 1500 HP and 100 armor/mr, where 4% of their HP is 60 and they take 30 damage. Tank has 2000 HP and 150 armor/mr, where 4% of their HP is 80 and they take 32 damage.

Mainly what item 3153 does is smooth out your relevant DPS curve over the course of a game, causing your damage to at least be OK at any given point in the game as %HP scales more with game time/levels than it does your own gold.

Really handy for a tanky DPS that can only afford to grab 1 offensive item, also nice for a glass-cannon with a weak early game. Not useful for actually countering HP, as the actual damage you deal tends to be the same flat value regardless, and units with more HP can take more flat damage. Because that's what HP allows you to do.


Additionally: what %HP scaling does offer on items isn't exactly top-lane or jungle, it's about the end-game: which is pretty far removed from lanning.

And Riot tends to balance things over their power over the course of a game.

item 3083 may seem pretty unimpressive in Rift, but it actually got disabled in Treelines, Dominion, and Abyss due to it's capacity to drag on a game into overtime and be a solid purchase on pretty much everyone in those modes for some anti fast-paced, late-game strats.

A lot of defensive items and attributes are currently priced to be really solid mid game to compensate falling off a bit late-game. If you just buff tank's late-game power while keeping their current, very solid mid-game in tact: balance issues. Mostly of the Tank/Tanky DPS eclipses other archetypes variants.

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