Kat Needs Energy Now

Brain Errör 404··2 votes·787 views

She needs to be gated now.

32 Comments

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

She is gated by her obscene squishiness, weakness to CC, High Skill cap and predictable playstyle (now that Daggers have indicators). She's highly mobile and I agree that can be an issue at times, but I don't think adding resources is going to solve that. Katarina is one of the few Assassins from the group rework how came out with an amazing new kit. She'd become another LB, who is able to abuse mage items despite her Assassin status if she was given mana. As for energy I can't see it solving anything. Energy Champions are strong Early - Mid-game and fall off in the late game. Katarina is strong in the Early - Mid-game and falls off in the late game.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

What you just listed is the weakness of most assassins. Also note of mention, she already abuses mage items regardless? They're still both AP champions. it's not like there are different items for AP assassins and AP mages.

And people have already been talking about how a high skill cap shouldn't be reason enough to make a champ super strong. Just look at all the Yasuo and Vayne hate.

Cocho1 votes

Same classes often have the same weaknesses.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Then it's not a valid weakness of that particular champion. That's the one all weakness of literally every squishy champion in the game and is not limited to just Kat. Not to mention, most squishies are also 10x more immobile than Kitty Kat and can't get away with half the things that she does.

Cocho1 votes

Yeah but most champs bring something to the team other than literally just damage.

You could name off any champion in the game, I could tell you what he brings that kat does not. Other assassins could be more single target focused than kat, and kill a priority target more reliably. Literally every other champion that isn't a assassin (class as a whole isn't too good atm), will bring something that kat doesn't.

Zed doesn't need all of his energy to do his job. Kat would.

There is also alot less counterplay to his job.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Okay. Trynd, Fiora, Garen, Evelyn, Graves, Yi, Nidalee, Mordekaiser, Shyvana, Talon, Urgot, Vlad Ziggs. What do they bring to le table that Kat doesn't?

EMeta1 votes

Other than Yi, Morde and Nid, some CC. Yi & Morde both have defensive abilities that let them soak damage (which is often more useful than avoiding it--since it often would hit someone else). Nid obviously brings her obnoxious poke spam.

Poske1 votes

Trynda has one of the most tilting splitpushes in the game Fiora is insane everywhere fantastic tank buster target selecter Garen is there for begginers Evelyn compared to katarina UM I wonder what sets eve apart, I just cant seem to find it Graves is ranged? Has the most tilting ability called smokescreen Nidalee can clear 5 jungles in the same time while providing poke anti poke and scouting Mordekaiser is irelevant... (Sorry malicious metal) needs another rework Shyvana can clear 5 junglers in the same time and become ball of stats Talon is AD but yeah there basicly is no reason to pick talon over katarina (YAY YOU got 1 right) Urgot is anti assassin with great poke durability and he is ranged Vladimir has sustain and his pool over katarina who atm is somewhat escape less (No ward hops) Ziggs has nothing to offer compared to some mages but compared to katarina he has ... global presence range poke

Poske1 votes

Just try playing katarina you ll see how many weaknesses she has

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Playing her simply isn't enough. I'm a terrible Kat player. I'd have to spam her to get the hang of her. Only thing I'll end up seeing is how difficult she is to be effective at her. Doesn't make her any less annoying.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Yeah, I just listed those because he said Kat just brings complete dmg to the team. That's basically what the rest of the people I listed bring. They have, overall, less effectiveness than Kat at all stages of the game. Most of them are used to abuse bad team comps or people who don't understand how to deal with split pushing champs.

Yi and Trynd has horrible teamfight abilities. But I listed those champs, because like Kat, all of them are just a ball of stats.

Good to see people know their champs though. And Graves has pretty short range that can be blocked by everything.

Poske1 votes

Sorry but your list makes no sense in any way shape or form. Besides an obvious pattern listing them by an alphabet

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

You seriously just brought up Nidalee? The Queen of counter-jungling, assasination, camp clearing, lane pressure, map pressure and sieging as a champion who ONLY brings damage to a team??? Nidalee has literally been the Queen of the Jungle since season 3, and even now, in the awful state they have put her in, her kit STILL proves valuable to her team.

I'm not even going to bother to bring up how wrong you are in regards to that list.

In Zigg's case specifically though, unlike every other champion you listed, only brings damage to a team, you are correct. However in that exact same case, he is capable of stalling out minion waves for literal eternity as long as he has mana (Which is not an issue in the late game considering his average mana costs). He is also a mage, as opposed to an Assassin. Meaing he is capable of building items like Morellonomicon, which provides a free re-applable grievous wounds passive, to his benefit, that will proc on any enemy under 40% health, from literally any spell. He also excessively long ranged, and capable of poking down teams from a distance. Whereas in Katarina's case, she is 100% forced to go all in during a teamfight and do so skillfully, to be of any benefit to her team. Katarina will NOT build mage items, lest she waste a MASSIVE amount of gold, on a completely useless stat. item 3060 item 3003 item 3174 item 3040 item 3027 item 3165 item 3110 item 3800 All of these amazing items, with super useful passives, are effectively all massive wastes of gold to Katarina.

Cocho1 votes

The buffs she would get would be so big if she had to make mana lol.

I'd be fine if my Q did 500 instead of 200 base lol

Cocho1 votes

Tyrn and fiora are actual threats when they split, because they do it fast, and you cannot just send a specific person to stop the split. kat is slower, they could just send the top laner or jungler with skirmisher sabre, and they would kill her if kat tried to split.

garen has a silence, is a tank, now shreds armor with his e, and black cleaver applies to the adc.

Eve is a jungler lol kat doesnt have invisible ganks. Graves , shyv, and yi can take towers, they're junglers. The comparison is odd. Like apples to oranges. Nid is good at seiging, has a heal, traps for wards, good objective control. I can't really compare what they bring other than the fact they have their own advantages to other junglers. Yi gets objectives faster, like drag or baron. Kat doesnt do much dmg to them. Yi is probably the closest because he doesn't bring much. Most of these picks have the option to do dmg to the frontline in a teamfight, where kat needs to get the back.

Mord is off tank. But he also does aoe damage. Its good if they focus mord, it isnt good if they focus kat. He probably pushes fast with his q if that even works with towers ;p

Talon is single target, and roams faster/better, like eve.
Urgot has his ult, and he shreds armor. Ziggs is a mage. He pokes and stays safe. he doesnt have to commit.

I could make tank on kat, but it isn't effective unless you're considerably ahead or if they're all ad or something. I'd rather have 2/0/2 tank shyv with like titanic and shit than a kat with it.

Literally all kat is looking for is to kill people with mobility, like other assassins. Most of these other picks also aren't hard countered by exhaust or skirmisher sabre.

While what does kat bring that is different from these champs. Mobiliy, damage, flanking, teamfighting, skirmishes, picks, ap for other ap on the team with item 3001 ? Usually the only ap, besides the support. This kat is weaker in teamfights with resets, potentially stronger without. Reliably bursting someone is very important, and she cannot do it as reliably anymore.

At the cost of seiging, poke, safe waveclear, and objective control. The negatives are pretty strong, but the positives are strong in solo queue.

Kat can cause the opponents to save CC, where they eventually just dont use it or miss it. Wasting their time/cds

Cocho2 votes

This guy, I like this guy

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Aww you're nice //pats cheek

PrimeWraith1 votes

mana

Cocho1 votes

How will she be able to use her resets or daggers? Would catching a dagger give her 'x' energy back?

-biased kat main

Brain Errör 4041 votes

They can work around it, but right now she has to be gated if they intend on keeping her as is. They talk about mobility being too strong, and right now she now has the most mobility in the game. Especially when she starts getting resets.

I have no clue the compensation for energy/mana being put on her, but she can't be allowed to remain resourceless.

Cocho1 votes

She still has cooldowns, her energy would have to be pretty high. Like kennens, but higher. Shen uses just about everything everything in one rotation

Brain Errör 4041 votes

She has cooldowns early game. They're pretty negligible in the mid game.

Cocho1 votes

If she can't do everything she can because she was gated by something like energy regen, she would be worthless and I wouldn't play her. She would lose her fast paced gameplay.

It would be hard to imagine if I had enough energy regen (p = passive) to Q, E, P, W, R, P, gunblade for a kill, E, W, P, Q, E, P, kill, then E out. This is over the timespan of like 5 seconds. If I'm rooted, CC'd at all, or dont kill someone, this stops. If the enemy doesnt get hit by both of the daggers that take 1.5 seconds to land, killing them gets odd. She snowballs harder than most champs because of her mobility, but most assassins do.

She would become something that is nothing like the old kat if she was gated. I'm not saying the design of the old kat was good or bad, but the fan base of it is large enough, and it is unique enough to keep aspects of it. I like this rework because its the best of both worlds for her.

She has many weaknesses. Her sieging is poor and she can't do anything if she cannot kill the target in a teamfight. Locket, redemption, and quick reactions from the enemy team makes her worthless. She's worthless against bruisers with CC. She has to commit extremely hard in teamfights and she isn't as hard to gank as she was before.

The problem with assassins are they are very feast or famine, riot failed to fix that with their reworks, although they did fix other issues.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Zed has energy and he works out pretty fine. Also, ganking the new kat is even harder than ganking the old one. She has free shunpo cooldowns on daggers. You'd have to time your gank with a very small window of her throwing out her dagger. 7 second CD early isn't that much of a cooldown and that's not even including her W.

I agree, she still has obvious weaknesses, as do most assassins do, though. Bruisers and tanks are the nightmare of all assassins.

They just need to find the proper way to implement it so she has more management to do. I already knew this new kat was going to be trouble, but she's all kinds of crazy now. Especially her OP lvl 2 and 3 cheese.

Cocho3 votes

Zed is nothing like kat. The comparison is terrible.

Old kat just ward hopped to tower when you threw something and the gank was done. Nothing happens.

New kat can only shunpo to minions. Her q dagger doesn't help. Her W is where she is. Only way she can run without minions is into the enemy tower lol or jungle. Her W is maxed 3rd, and it gives movement speed for 1 second. Thats like comparing irelia to ezreal in the midlane. I'd rather gank irelia if they had the same stats.

Not even a debate, old kat is harder to gank.

To live the lvl 2/3 cheese, you just have to stay out of shunpo range, or dodge the W dagger that takes 1.5 seconds, and the Q dagger that lands behind where it hit you. I don't have a problem with it when I'm against her. Also, you could poke her lvl 1 where she weak, have a big wave to prevent the cheese, push her undertower lvl 1. She has ton of counterplay until you feed her.

In my opinion, with 500k on kat while just being a petty plat player, the added mobility doesnt make a difference. Old kat just 1 shot you in .1 seconds if you were 70% health or less, if not you aren't running away from ludens and rylais lol.

Only reason she seems op now is because she isn't gated by her poor laning phase. She's winning her lane rather than roaming. So the thought process goes from it seeming like she got fed off of bot to she got fed cause she is op and beat the enemy midlaner.

I don't think she is overpowered, but she can be obnoxious to play against as a squishy. She litterally has no escape from a bruiser that plays it well. Hec will run her down, shyv will run her down, tryn will run her down. Her weaknesses that I mentioned earlier are big enough in competitive play, that she won't be played much (if at all). She was played by maple, but her weaknesses in mid/late were really highlighted that match.

Solo queue she can carry, because its different. People don't know how to not feed, and she snowballs hard.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

I was pointing out that Zed, if he had no energy, would be just as problematic as the new Kat is right now. He has reasonably high cooldowns as well, but that isn't enough to keep him in check. Take away his energy and you get to see how truly troublesome he is.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

{quoted}

How will she be able to use her resets or daggers? Would catching a dagger give her 'x' energy back?

-biased kat main

Probably would be like Akali. While it is true that Akali's reset is on her ult which has no energy cost, her skills base CD are really low that it'll probably feel about the same as Kat with resets if we gave her energy, Also picking up daggers would be a good suggestion for her to get energy back. Maybe have her gain X amount of energy when she picks up a dagger, and the amount doubles if she blinks on one or something like that.

In the end if something like that happened, it'll probably not really do much for Kat mains since they would be good enough to constantly pick up daggers and would regain enough energy but could help with balancing a bit. Like if Kat is feeling a little strong, just increase her energy cost or something.

Cocho1 votes

I dislike playing akali. Always run out of energy. Kat doesn't have a shroud to hide in to wait for her energy.

catching a dagger would 100%, have to give enough energy for a full rotation, and R having no cost.

Q would have to be low enough, to regen it before the cooldown came back.

Like there is so many issues with energy regen, that you wont be able to optimize her gameplay, or play her like she used to be, because of the energy regen, otherwise you wont be able to spam Q off cooldown (like a gp or something, but he runs out of mana by eating oranges), Her level 2/3 all in, takes all the jumps. So you need 100% energy back for that. Her weakest point is under her tower. Low energy would just make that worse early. Teamfights where your teammate kills someone before your dagger even lands on them or something, you wont be able to just go on someone else without having insufficient energy.

Just adding energy makes so many differences at every point of the game, she would be significantly weaker, unless she had basically infinite energy.

Now with having infinite energy, having that moment where you don't have any, that would feel terrible lol (makes sense right)

I could see mana, since morello gives you 20% mana on kill/assists. But her build paths would be significantly weaker than a gunblade. She would need a tear. Then she would need morello that doesn't give a spike, like gunblade.

Only way to compensate that would be buffs to her cooldowns or damage. And I think she's fine where she is at with that (lol). Another way would be for Q and ult to not take mana, or like 20 for Q.

I can't stress enough, that if she can't kill someone, she can't do anything. This wasn't as much of a problem with old kat, because her burst was instant, you knew if you could kill them, you didn't have to wait 1.5 seconds for the enemy to react to you while you did your damage. If you aren't fed, you still need to wait for your team to do some damage. Her resets are weaker than what they were before.

Genocide Victim1 votes

I think you mean "gutted", and yes definitely.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

Nah, not gutted. She's crazy, but for the same reason most mobility champs are: due to being neigh impossible to hit with skill shots.

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