We should remove all penalties to dodging queues.

Only Mid Veigar·Feb 8, 2019·24 votes·15,800 views

The title says it all. There's enough people playing the game to support this, but the key point I want to make, is that being trapped in the trench of no escape requires a modicum of team building and strategy.

5 squishies is not strategy.

5 champions with no hard CC is not strategy.

Teemo is not strategy (stop picking him god damn I hate all of you Teemo mains, go play farmville).

Dodging queues to avoid a 15 minute loss (inevitably turning into a 20 or 25 minute game because someone doesn't know when they're beat, or someone wants to troll the team and int for 5 minutes) seems like the only solution, but the penalties associated with it means there's no reason to even play League of Legends after one dodge. You might as well roll the dice and take the loss, or go play a different game. Which, of course, means you're done with League for the day cause that other game doesn't kick you in the nuts for wanting to play in any form of ranked matches.

37 Comments

FOR JUSTICEFeb 8, 201914 votes

all dodges being unpunished is too abuse-able.

you can just freely dodge until you get the 80% W/R smurfs on your team and "climb" artificially. same applies for any promos.

Only Mid VeigarFeb 8, 201913 votes

Know what feature they also said would be abused? Voice chat.

Know what we have? Voice chat.

Know what we still don't have? A god damn pause button when someone DC's from the load screen and reconnects after 2 minutes of restarting the garbage game client and they've already lost their lane.

FOR JUSTICEFeb 8, 201910 votes

[{quoted}](name=Floofboi Ralsei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T17:10:36.336+0000)

Know what feature they also said would be abused? Voice chat.

Know what we have? Voice chat.

Know what we still don't have? A god damn pause button when someone DC's from the load screen and reconnects after 2 minutes of restarting the garbage game client and they've already lost their lane.

VC would only be abused for randos, not premades, there is a huge difference

ÔneWindyBoiFeb 8, 20191 votes

Yeah well sometimes I'd like to tell my idiot adc to stop overextending and inting in sidelanes for CS.

Edit: And no, typing isn't good enough. I'm talking about the caliber of player so braindead that they can't or won't look at chat or the map.

3TWarriorFeb 9, 20191 votes

the issue wasn't even that it would be abused, it was that there would be little point to it because it's noise pollution at worst and an unintended advantage at best

rtbf221651412Feb 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T18:14:42.940+0000)

VC would only be abused for randos, not premades, there is a huge difference

They acted like it was also for pre-mades too for the longest time. Don't act like they didn't. Also, people post Discord in league pre-game quite frequently now. You can EVEN MUTE YOUR PREMADE TEAM and yourself. Now people don't need to ask riot for the ability to disable their typing rage anymore because they can disable their own voice. :O

(Almost like Riot has been acting that was a band-aide for forever now for their laziness to deal with actual toxicity but I digress)

emarythomp2Feb 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Floofboi Ralsei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T17:10:36.336+0000)

Know what feature they also said would be abused? Voice chat.

Know what we have? Voice chat.

Know what we still don't have? A god damn pause button when someone DC's from the load screen and reconnects after 2 minutes of restarting the garbage game client and they've already lost their lane.

What? That's not an argument against dodging. Dodging going unpunished will be abused by trolls who wait till the last minute and then dodge and waste everyone's time. Like did you really not think that through? You like waiting 5 minutes to start another q or having to pray that you dont wait 5 hours until ALL 10 players on each team decide not to troll and dodge last minute?

It's the same reason you get punished for denying a "match found!" request. Too fucking abusable.

mUbBdWebbFeb 11, 20191 votes

[deleted]

emarythomp2Feb 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

how is it abusable? i don't want to play ranked with shit team comps and players flaming in lobby. if that day I get 5 flaming morons in the pre game chat or as OP pointed out, a teemo player, i don't fucking wana play with them. Why do I gota be held hostage for 30mins

edit - ill also add that while the op has some good points hes horribly unqualified with those op.gg stats. jesus

Lets see how you like it when at the last minute of every -pregame lobby someone dodges at the 1 second mark. Every. Time. You'll be suprised how many people will troll.

Bob the ToastrFeb 9, 201914 votes

IMO dodges should be punished about like they are now. It's just a few lp for a dodge (I don't remember how many) and a few minutes to keep you from doing it repeatedly.

HOWEVER, I think that dodges in promos should absolutely not be auto-losses. People shouldn't auto-lose games because some salty person banned someone's champ and then takes smite and ghost on soraka top. I think you should still lose the lp, and then just have it affect you after you complete your promos.

Quick example: Say you have to dodge 2 games in your promos (i think it's like 5 lp each). If you win your promos, you would start the next division at -10 lp, and if you lose your promos, you would go down an extra 10 lp. I think that's a fair way to balance dodging promos.

Akali is SO HOTFeb 9, 20198 votes

Good luck ever getting into a game then lol

TheSingularityFeb 9, 20196 votes

I'd support reducing dodge penalties but not removing them for a few reasons:

I understand these situations can fall under a few main titles, but it's to display the vast array of situations

off meta pick dodge
I got countered dodge
my chamo got banned dodge
they stole my champ dodge
don't have the sums I want them to dodge
they didn't ban what I wanted them to ban dodge
X got through ban phase dodge
support didn't pick what I told them to dodge
OP.gg's team, one is losing streak dodge ect ect

So, keep the LP dodge penalty. We then change the dodge timer to go 3 games=3 minutes, 3-6=5 minutes, 6-10=10 minutes, 10+=30 minutes as well as double LP loss. This gives you breathing room, but punishes you for being ridiculous.

In a promo series you have dodges equating to the number of promo games excluding start of season promos (so 3 or 5). They don't count as a loss, you lose no LP, you receive no time penalty. However there is a static cooldown on them (so you're not constantly bouncing in and out of promos dodging games constantly to fk with people)

thoughts?

HeeroTXFeb 11, 20194 votes

Ranked should either NOT be solely based on W/L, or you should be able to dodge freely. For all the people saying "people will wait for the perfect team-comp", here's my question, if RANK is based entirely on "teamwork" (ie. W/L) then why should people be forced to play with people that they clearly don't trust. If you're gonna tell me I can at LEAST go 0LP with a loss because I performed well even if my 4 teammates were garbo, then fine, play Teemo support and Soraka jungle and whatever dumbassery Top lane you want because "its fun". But if your performance DIRECTLY impacts my own experience and results, then I should be able to get away when you wanna run off-meta. Maybe you're a smurf or some hidden god, but MUCH more likely you're some idiot that either saw something "cool" on a stream or a troll that's just looking to make the game suck.

But then, I also LIKED Teambuilder and didn't give a crap if it took 30 mins of waiting to build a team.

hrooza dota Feb 12, 20191 votes

thats not even the problem

the problem every player will keep dodging when ever he want to

main banned? dodge enemy counter picked? dodge my ally went nasus jg? dodge my team comb is not amazing? dodge i feel like dodging? dodge i wanna troll? dodge

now time all the above by 10 and good luck finding a match

6lack SupermanFeb 12, 20193 votes

Most people dodge for the first 4 reasons you posted, which is perfectly fine. If your team isn't banning clearly OP champions like Yasuo, Nasus (who didn't get countered picked against) You're basically looking at a FAT LOSS that should not be counted against you because you decided it was better to not play into auto loss, waste 15-30mins+ and also take a 15-23 LP Loss. No thanks. Some find winning games fun and climbing and others just do whatever they want to do in rank games like it's a normals and don't give AF because "hehe it's just a game."

hrooza dota Feb 12, 20191 votes

except the fact not all ppl do that and they dont always do it

you cant keep doing it for free, players will have to choose one day to learn a 2nd champ and not dodge if their champ is banned

but if its free? each time yasuo/nasus is banned one of the yasuo/nasus players will dodge and they will keep dodging until they get the perfect yasuo/nasus game (when i say perfect i mean also the matchup) same goes for any other champion match up

but the other players who face yas and nasus in a bad matchup will dodge that match and the circle will repeat .

players will keep dodging because its free compared to now where they have to rethink a little before pressing that dodge button

HeeroTXFeb 12, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=hrooza dota ,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-02-12T05:15:48.315+0000)

main banned? dodge

Honestly, this specific one is easily identified, so why not put all the one-tricks in a separate queue and let em deal with it. (and I say that AS someone who is basically a one-trick)

enemy counter picked? dodge

I could be proven wrong, but I honestly expect this specific one to be pretty rare. If its a problem in high elo, then gate dodges once you pass Gold, but most low elo probably don't even know on any particular patch who the counter picks ARE.

my ally went nasus jg? dodge my team comb is not amazing? dodge

If I think my ally picked a troll (off-meta) pick and don't wanna play with that, then I don't see the problem. Again, the OTHER way to address this IMO is make ranked based on something OTHER than W/L. If we're gonna live the lie that your rank in rando land is based on teamwork, then the TEAM should have at least SOME consensus on their comp.

i feel like dodging? dodge i wanna troll? dodge

These would be basically the same thing, and I would 100% NO EXCEPTIONS prefer that trolls get their jollies wasting 5 mins of my time in a lobby rather than 25+ in a game where they ALSO knock down my rank.

hrooza dota Feb 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, this specific one is easily identified, so why not put all the one-tricks in a separate queue and let em deal with it. (and I say that AS someone who is basically a one-trick)

thats silly you want to separate players from ranked by putting them in diff places because they pick in a certain way?

I could be proven wrong, but I honestly expect this specific one to be pretty rare. If its a problem in high elo, then gate dodges once you pass Gold, but most low elo probably don't even know on any particular patch who the counter picks ARE.

it wont be rare if it was free, heck i will do it everytime i feel enemy lane will be pain in the ass to fight. and im low elo i saw many players in my games saying their lane was hard and so on and gating is also separating treatments which is again silly imo

If I think my ally picked a troll (off-meta) pick and don't wanna play with that, then I don't see the problem. Again, the OTHER way to address this IMO is make ranked based on something OTHER than W/L. If we're gonna live the lie that your rank in rando land is based on teamwork, then the TEAM should have at least SOME consensus on their comp.

except off meta is not troll and heck even ok picks such as vayne top in a good matchup would be dodged, and nasus jg is not that off meta its just players might want specific jg.

if you want teamwork create a party because randoms are randoms and your ideas wont make them magically go team work when none want to. if you want good comp with randoms then you abject your pick.

im a team player in term of my picks and can fill what comp lack if i wanted too

These would be basically the same thing, and I would 100% NO EXCEPTIONS prefer that trolls get their jollies wasting 5 mins of my time in a lobby rather than 25+ in a game where they ALSO knock down my rank.

no it wont be the same thing a troll now wont go dodging 200 games in a row he will be stoped with timers and you wont wait 5 mins you will wait forever because players and trolls will dodge every game until you find 10 players who get fed up from dodging

HeeroTXFeb 13, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=hrooza dota ,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=000d000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T20:12:45.920+0000)

thats silly you want to separate players from ranked by putting them in diff places because they pick in a certain way?

Only if they dodge a lot. If you dodge once a day, no variance, if you dodge all the time to get your specific champ, then you fall in the "slow lane" of people that wanna one-trick.

if you want teamwork create a party because randoms are randoms and your ideas wont make them magically go team work when none want to. if you want good comp with randoms then you abject your pick.

Then, as I said at the start, change rank to go on INDIVIDUAL performace in solo-q. It's dumb that my rank is affected by people that wanna "have fun" playing their own style. I'm saying Riot should do one OR the other. If my rank is (at least PARTLY) impacted by my individual play rather than PURELY on W/L, then play whatever the hell you want.

no it wont be the same thing a troll now wont go dodging 200 games in a row he will be stoped with timers and you wont wait 5 mins you will wait forever because players and trolls will dodge every game until you find 10 players who get fed up from dodging

I meant people that dodge because "I feel like dodging" and people that dodge because "I'm a troll" are basically the same thing. If you're not a troll, why are you dodging "just because I feel like it"?

EDIT: and just to clarify, TeamBuilder basically WAS "free dodge in the lobby", and I loved TeamBuilder.

hrooza dota Feb 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Only if they dodge a lot. If you dodge once a day, no variance, if you dodge all the time to get your specific champ, then you fall in the "slow lane" of people that wanna one-trick.

so you put them in a special queue of players who dodge a lot for a specific champion? who will most likely dodge more? so it become a different kind of punishment that might be even worst then the old one, not sure what to say tbh

Then, as I said at the start, change rank to go on INDIVIDUAL performace in solo-q. It's dumb that my rank is affected by people that wanna "have fun" playing their own style. I'm saying Riot should do one OR the other. If my rank is (at least PARTLY) impacted by my individual play rather than PURELY on W/L, then play whatever the hell you want.

individual performance wont work because the game have many factors for a win and even if you perform godly in one game you can be the main reason of a loss. imagine a xin who gank all lanes and go so fat but lose 2 inferno dragons to lower level yi smite and kept getting cought in later stages and end game with 20/3/15, the system will think he performed amazing but the truth is he throwed the game hard and lost easy and important objective. if a system of individual performance is in place then everyone will just try to game it once they figure out how it work.

I meant people that dodge because "I feel like dodging" and people that dodge because "I'm a troll" are basically the same thing. If you're not a troll, why are you dodging "just because I feel like it"?

EDIT: and just to clarify, TeamBuilder basically WAS "free dodge in the lobby", and I loved TeamBuilder.

i feel like dodging happen to me but sometimes i go (nah i will roll with this), and now if someone wanna troll he can only do it once every 5 min in lobby, the idea will just change that to 2000 times in 5 min.

also for teambuilder, it does not exist anymore meaning riot changed it, and since it did not get reverted and riot have all the datas it was the better for the player base/riot .

of course theres those who liked it like you but it does not make it a better system in general,

anyway i wont talk about it much as its kinda off topic

haaaaaaalpFeb 9, 20193 votes

Only reason I got a second account was because of dodge timers. No idea why dodge penalties are so long.

emarythomp2Feb 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Only reason I got a second account was because of dodge timers. No idea why dodge penalties are so long.

Because a troll will be in every game, constantly dodging pre-games and making you wait even longer because now you have to wait to find another game again and oh wait another troll decides to dodge. Great system.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 9, 20192 votes

Yeah, let's give trolls more ammo to use. Let's also have people dodge nonstop until they get that perfect teamcomp vs that garbage teamcomp

DunkProphetFeb 9, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Floofboi Ralsei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-08T17:00:47.232+0000)

Teemo is not strategy (stop picking him god damn I hate all of you Teemo mains, go play farmville).

God bless you

PassionlipFeb 11, 20192 votes

You're the sort of person for which I'm glad there are dodging penalities, tbh

Only Mid VeigarFeb 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You're the sort of person for which I'm glad there are dodging penalities, tbh

I wonder how a comment like this, which is just covered in salt and unwarranted vitriol, gets upvoted honestly. I'm the sort of person who, by my own experiences is right, since I can guarantee that I've been playing longer than you, makes a comment regarding the lack of teamplay and tendency to troll in the lower ranks.

I would have dodged in the second game of my last promo series (which I correctly guessed we'd lose) but unfortunately I obviously couldn't. I had dubious faith in our Xerath support, who did prove very good for the most part, wave clearing not withstanding, but our Irelia and Cho picks fed hard to much better picks on the mid and top lanes, respectively. It spoke more to the Mastery 5 Irelia who I am convinced just spammed her broken last patch build forever and a day, but constantly feeds because of lack of skill.

PassionlipFeb 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Floofboi Ralsei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-02-11T15:04:13.116+0000)

I wonder how a comment like this, which is just covered in salt and unwarranted vitriol, gets upvoted honestly. I'm the sort of person who, by my own experiences is right, since I can guarantee that I've been playing longer than you, makes a comment regarding the lack of teamplay and tendency to troll in the lower ranks.

I would have dodged in the second game of my last promo series (which I correctly guessed we'd lose) but unfortunately I obviously couldn't. I had dubious faith in our Xerath support, who did prove very good for the most part, wave clearing not withstanding, but our Irelia and Cho picks fed hard to much better picks on the mid and top lanes, respectively. It spoke more to the Mastery 5 Irelia who I am convinced just spammed her broken last patch build forever and a day, but constantly feeds because of lack of skill.

Oh well, I've been here from around Season 1 and I still remember when there were no dodging penalties and people dodged if the team wasn't exactly to their specifications.

There's no salt or vitriol, just a statement coming from my experience - I still remember seeing twelve games dodged in a row because X champ would get picked in the other team or someone would get pissed at not being able to play where they wanted, it was a big waste of time for everyone.

So yeah, I'm glad there are dodging penalties, I can avoid wasting too much time because of people that reason like you.

5050BSFeb 12, 20192 votes

100% But keep the 5m. Just 5m

Mody birdFeb 10, 20191 votes

Terrible idea. Do you realize how abusable that would be?

MoonscourgeFeb 11, 20191 votes

I will enjoy dodging in the very last second for a couple hours and then ask on the boards if they really enjoyed removing the penalty now that they couldn't play the game at all.

Is this the future that you want? 5 minutes really aren't long at all, especially since you dodge for a reason. That reason being a troll or whatever, who will then be in a game before you queue up again.

Only Mid VeigarFeb 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RqshWVQl,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-02-11T12:49:29.343+0000)

I will enjoy dodging in the very last second for a couple hours and then ask on the boards if they really enjoyed removing the penalty now that they couldn't play the game at all.

Is this the future that you want? 5 minutes really aren't long at all, especially since you dodge for a reason. That reason being a troll or whatever, who will then be in a game before you queue up again.

I can understand you're playing devil's advocate here, but honestly I'd rather run into dodge-happy games that can be instantly remade over and over than run into garbage team compositions. This isn't Dota. LoL games are decided most of the time before the game even starts. Not having CC or a strong line up with a balance of some beef with your damage is a cakewalk for a single Garen pick to just murder your entire team with impunity, with 4 other players ready to just follow on his heels and ruin your day.

sho ayaneFeb 11, 20191 votes

I like this idea, but I think lots of troll would have fun ruining it all, perhaps allowing 2 dodges a day would be best.

ButterwoodFeb 11, 20191 votes

Making everyone else wait because your teammates won't match whatever comp you're going for is absolute nonsense. You are not the captain of the team just because you want to be. It's not safe to assume you're better at league than every single person you queue with. Get over yourself.

Only Mid VeigarFeb 11, 20191 votes

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2975470093/92227?tab=overview

This is exactly why we need those penalties removed. I wanted to dodge so badly but I gave it a chance.

I was a fool to trust a bronze Sylas jungler with a veigar support. Funny enough it's pretty clear from the Sylas player's history that he intentionally feeds in a lot of games, credit for that.