Formal discussion about the Veigar changes.

I know a lot of you are sick about seeing the Veigar complaints all around the boards, but with the changes confirmed to be coming in the upcoming patch I thought I would give my opinion on them. If you want a TLDR of what this post will sum up check the bottom of the page.

Before you accuse me of being inexperienced with the champion, Veigar has been my main mid laner for quite a while now and I have tested the changes on the PBE quite a bit. So without further adieu lets get into the changes.

**The Q rework:**After testing my amount of farm from the Q before and after the changes it was relatively the same. I am perfectly fine with this ability being a skillshot, but it's worth noting this decreases Veigar's reliability more than you would think. Here is why:

1. He can no longer consistently harass the enemy from behind the minion wave
2. He can no longer last hit the low minions in the back of the wave
3. He now pushes the wave with every Q due to it going through minions
4. Enemies can block his Q from hitting minions
5. (Not a bad thing) Is now dodge able
6. Now has a longer CD late game

Of course there are some pros to this change as well. He now has a longer range on it, and can harass much better late game now. But this isn't what Veigar needed. In the post regarding the changes it says "We wanted to keep Veigars identity as a burst Mage". If anything, this change made him more of a poke Mage, and reduced his burst potential by a landslide.

The E Nerf: The E having a delay is perfectly reasonable, however you have to buff other things in his kit. This E delay COMPLETELY changes so much about him including but not limited to:

1. It has a .75 second delay with warning particles and a .50 second cast time. That's 1.25 seconds before the walls pop up. Cho'Gath's Q has a .60 second delay.
2. He can no longer catch people at long distance
3. Relies on team to engage
4. Cannot land W in the large area that is the inside of the cage
5. Cannot peel for himself, especially against mobile champions

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I don't think the R changes are worth mentioning as it is obviously a nerf but doesn't effect him much.

Due to the two changes listed above, Veigar is forced to play incredibly safe now. He cannot engage well for a jungle gank, cannot peel for himself, or engage on a target to burst.

I think Veigar is in a much more buffable state because of these changes, but the problem is they made it off of the PBE before they were finished. This would be fine as it allows more testing, but the problem remains that these changes could go unfixed for months. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you guys have regarding these changes, or any solutions you may have to these problems!

TLDR: Veigar now has:

• Reduced reliability
• No self peel
• No consistent harass
• Less burst
• A more poke oriented kit
• A worse early game And the biggest problems
• No way to land W
• No reason to play him over anyone else
• No way to land E against anyone with tier 2 boots or any mobility

@Riot