Many champs suffer from inherently broken kits -- even if the champ is balanced in a given patch, small changes can make the champion OP or UP. Small nerfs or buffs can send the champs to god-tier status or into oblivion. Zed, Fizz, Ekko, Lucian, Ezreal, Jax, and Xin have all suffered from this.
I cannot think of any patch that broke Shaco.
This is one reason why I think Shaco is, in fact, a well-designed champion.
Jeddy01715 votesBecause he's a very difficult champ to perform well on. Not mechanically difficult but strategically difficult. Players picking him up just for freelo will just fall flat on their face. Surprise, there is no freelo with Shaco if you never played him before. We all know the "Our Shaco vs Their Shaco" joke.
TrickMagnet3 votesYeah this is pretty much on point for shaco. Beyond early cheesing and how freelo his first gank or two are he's a very strategic champion. It's a shame he's going to basically be kept in the dumpster until a major rework because of how he plays in the first five minutes of a game or so
Remlap12232 votesGood. He can get relaunched, get a better lore, a visual upgrade, AND won't be complete cancer to face unless I play Nidalee or Lee Sin.
Great Ozymandius3 votesI agree with that. But I think that is another reason why Shaco is a well-designed champion. To gain ELO with him you need to have very good tactical skill. People with very good tactical skill should gain ELO.
SwapShadows6 votespeople love making these threads until they actually become fotm
then you realize how broken their kits are because trust me, Shaco is nowhere near balanced.
Remlap12235 votesYou don't truly understand how annoying certain champions can be until you've played against enough of them enough times. Shaco, however, is one of them you really only need to face once.
Br4ndon3 votesShaco and Blitz are two of the few champions I'd like to see just straight up removed from the game.
Heckin Support3 votesCan we please add 
and 
?
Old Man Teeto2 votesI'd remove Sona and Soraka in a heartbeat.
Voluug135 votesHe is, mainly because he pays for his mobility and outplay potential with high screw up potential.
Unlike ''modern, well designed'' (laughs forever at the notion and backflips into the sun) that are a mess of getting the boons of assassins the lack of the usual assassin flaws, like laning or reliability.
TrickMagnet5 votes... how long have you played this game for?
there is no way you think shaco has an "inherently well designed kit" and "has never been fotm/op" if you've actually played this game for any real length of time
Voluug135 votesShaco has never been FotM.
Not to the level of actual FotM like Zed, Yasuo, Jinx, Lucian or Lee Sin.
TrickMagnet5 votesyou would be wrong
there have been several times when shaco's been so oppressive and broken as to be a meta staple
Voluug131 votesThe only timeswhere shaco was even played more that his usual low playrate was when Riot fucked up Vision changes.
But then it wasnt not Shaco being OP, it was the entire stealth mechanic being oppresive.
TrickMagnet4 votesyou would still be wrong
shaco had spent time in the limelight for many, many reasons beyond vision changes. It doesn't take a deep look into his patch history to glean information as to why
Ahristocats1 votesyou would still be wrong
shaco had spent time in the limelight for many, many reasons beyond vision changes. It doesn't take a deep look into his patch history to glean information as to why
ok, seems like his win rate was high my bad but he wasn't in every game, remember that laners didn't have free wards, and if he tries to go from lane you can see the smoke.
Remlap12231 votesIf you ward the brush. If the Shaco is good, he'll Q into the brush, and walk into the lane undetected whine he violently sodomizes you with his shivs.
I guess the one good thing I've learned by playing against Shaco is the value of deep warding.
Ahristocats1 votesIf you ward the brush. If the Shaco is good, he'll Q into the brush, and walk into the lane undetected whine he violently sodomizes you with his shivs.
I guess the one good thing I've learned by playing against Shaco is the value of deep warding.
that would be just a normal gank.
ACENOX2 votes... how long have you played this game for?
there is no way you think shaco has an "inherently well designed kit" and "has never been fotm/op" if you've actually played this game for any real length of time
he never was must pick/ban like zed or ahri. this is called fotm. And when they nerfed him in the begining of s3, he wasn't on lee sin lvl.
TrickMagnet4 voteshe absolutely has been. matter of fact, shaco used to have the same reputation as ezreal does where every major change made to the jungle would invariably find some way to break him. it hit peak absurdity in, if I remember correctly, season 3 where shaco was able to hit level 3 with double buffs and gank before the 2nd minion wave even made it to a lane
if you want to know why shaco seems fair and not op it's because riot deliberately keeps him kneecap pedal because he's an unfair champion pretty much by definition. cry all you want to about lee sin or yasuo or whatever but those champs have infinitely more counterplay than shaco had ever had.
Ahristocats3 votes[deleted]
TrickMagnet3 votesi don't know where you're pulling your sources from so i can't go back and verify but i literally threw "season 3 shaco" into google and got this thread
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2853513
55% w/r, 14% ban rate on what i'd assume was the last patch before preseason 3. aka BEFORE HE WAS BROKEN BY SEASON 3 CHANGES AND SUBSEQUENTLY NERFED
"V3.01:
Deceive.png Deceive
Range reduced to 400 from 500.
Two-Shiv Poison.png Two-Shiv Poison
Slow reduced to 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30% from 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5 / 30%. "
if I remember correctly, season 3 where shaco was able to hit level 3 with double buffs and gank before the 2nd minion wave even made it to a lane
I remember that. Luckily, I was on the team with the Shaco, but holy shit was I dumbfounded by how unbelievably cheesy that was.
FalconPawwwwnch4 votesWell, you're wrong
Because there was a patch in early season 2 that broke Shaco
The patch when he could put boxes at one camp and do the other one because the box timer was 90 seconds and be level 3 with both buffs at 2 mins
Lowvyr3 votesShaco is very well designed, albeit annoying as fuck. He isn't overpowered, he isn't underpowered. He has very high rewards for very high risks. You can't just pick him up and say "I'm gonna get freeloz". If you try that you'll fail. You actually have to spend time mastering the strategies required to get fed on him, which is the only way he'll succeeds. He either gets fed, or feeds. If he's behind he's so squishy and does so little damage that he's basically a bot. If he gets fed he kills someone before they can even react to kill him.
Hellpyre3 votesShaco has been FotM a few times in the past. Not any time recently, but he was. A big part of that not happening again is that they never reverted most of his nerfs, because he used to be oppressive to fight just from Two-Shiv poison's miss chance, much less the ability to throw daggers while invisible.
CerealBoxOfDoom3 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RgGnVEt7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-27T14:41:38.739+0000)
Many champs suffer from inherently broken kits -- even if the champ is balanced in a given patch, small changes can make the champion OP or UP. Small nerfs or buffs can send the champs to god-tier status or into oblivion. Zed, Fizz, Ekko, Lucian, Ezreal, Jax, and Xin have all suffered from this.
I cannot think of any patch that broke Shaco.
This is one reason why I think Shaco is, in fact, a well-designed champion.
shaco is intentionally undertuned including this season
legionnaire992 votesHe cheeses the early game if you know how you can end the game before laning phase ends
Athenes Lulu2 votesTactical/strategic skillfloor. You don't have any tactical knowledge, which happens among most players, you're gonna do real bad. So in the end as of now Shaco will most likely never be FOTM, and that's for the better too.
Yes, I have joined League after S2 and don't want to see the horrors of pre-nerf Shaco.
Same applies to a lot of backline supports today, though that's an entirely different story.
Swiftstrike42 votesShaco is a high skill cap champion that drops off significantly after about 20 minutes.
He is useless if he gets behind or does not get ahead. His kit is not geared towards teamfights at all and if he secures every kill he harms his team more than helps. Shaco is supposed to help the teams win lane or make the opposing team's jungler a non-factor. If the lanes don't win but Shaco has a lot of kills then the player did not do his job properly.
Lower elos may think he is strong, but they do a poor job assessing any champion's strengths by ONLY looking at kill count. I love it when Shaco has all the kills and the lanes hold because it means when laning ends Shaco will drop off.
His kit should be adjusted either with the base damage of the skills, the scaling, or the duration of boxes. I think the boxes should be more like teemo shrooms that stay on the map longer.
He feels very powerless in against certain comps and outside of building AP Shaco his damage doesn't scale very well in the late game even if he is full build.
AP Shaco's are the best type of Shaco players. Different style of play, but they really know how to play him. AD Shaco is just the most common because it is easier and relatively effective, but a good AP Shaco player really just out classes the AD ones and has more map impact as the game goes on.
SFHFWill2 votesYou should look up Shaclone. He's almost always full AD and I think he stated AP is worthless. He's a challenger EU player.
Great Ozymandius1 voteshe plays ap when he lanes shaco.
Sire Hippington2 votesWhen did you join the game? S3? Because i can remember times in which shaco was broken....very broken. The reason that shaco wasn't broken by further pazches is that every time he apears in the patchnotes, it's either a bugfix or a nerf, exept for a small base armor buff in mid season 4. Shaco is kept low because his kit isn't healthy, he's one of the champs that are not allowed to be really strong. His winrate still looks solid because nearly all shacos are diehard mains, he has the 3ed highest average games per player.
Imo, he's one of the worst designed champions, he's a pick that always wins the game - for one team or the other. He's just incredible bninary, either he gets going and prettymuch takes over the game on his own, or he doesn't and becomes a liabillity for his team. There is little you can do vs a wellplayed shaco once he snowballs, and ther is just as little that shaco can do once he falls behind.
Papa Slothy2 votesI don't think he's ever been worthless tho
ff4sk2 votesShaco is only balanced because riot deliberately cripples the fuck out of him to the point he can only be played by someone who mains him. His early game is decent but can be countered very easily by an invade that disturbs his clearing. His late game is pathetically weak as he scales like shit in comparison to other champions and can't teamfight or 1v1 due to being shat on by anybody with a shred of armor.
Any tweaking would either break him or destroy whatever winrate he has so riot is just leaving him where he is til they eventually rework him someday
Paroe2 votesShaco is only balanced because riot deliberately cripples the fuck out of him to the point he can only be played by someone who mains him. His early game is decent but can be countered very easily by an invade that disturbs his clearing. His late game is pathetically weak as he scales like shit in comparison to other champions and can't teamfight or 1v1 due to being shat on by anybody with a shred of armor.
Any tweaking would either break him or destroy whatever winrate he has so riot is just leaving him where he is til they eventually rework him someday
If shaco was made in todays standards, his boxes would be untargetable (they should be to begin with since the duration is so short...) and his Q would have a refresh mechanic if he kills an enemy champion.
Pyrodinium1 votesShaco has an inherently niche kit.
For him to become FOTM, Shaco would need to be far more overtuned that Zed, Fizz, or any of the champions you mention were at their time.
The Yetii Rider1 votesShaco is definitely a powerful champion, but he (like Master Yi and Pantheon) is inherently tied to the strength of marksman items because of the critical strike tie in to his kit.
Hopefully Panth, Yi and Shaco all get changes where their crit damage is replaced by missing health damage.
SFHFWill2 votesDude, you're in the dark on this.
Pantheon is in no way tied to crit items. Pantheon will almost never build crit. Neither will a good Yi. Pantheon is pure AD and ArmPen. Yi is straight up ATKSPD and on-hit-effects.
Shaco is a mix of either.
Pantheon is also one of the top 3 most picked champs in Korea and is considered top 5 in NA and EU. Most people put the order of top lane as Sion, Ekko, Pantheon, Maokai and finally Swain. Swain is just straight busted right now. He's got like a 60% win rate, that's honestly completely unheard of this season. He's probably one of only 10 or so champs to ever hit that level. Nerfs incoming on 6.11.
Master Yi is probably one of the best junglers to gain ELO with right now b/c of Blood Razor. Build Blood Razor, Rage Blade, BotRK and the rest is up to you. Split push like an annoying a-hole and drag the game out til you hit 6 items or team fight with skill and instantly crush the other team with 3 items. Wait for the fight to start, wait til key ultis are used by the other team and people start to get low, then BAM! Q in and hit your ulti and clean up like crazy. People are placing him within the top 10 junglers ATM b/c of Guinsoo and Blood Razor, since tanks in the jungle are coming back and how Blood Razor works, you can invade and out duel with Challenging Smite Blood Razor and boots rather easy if you're capable of Q dodge. Once you get into higher ELO, he drops off quickly once people figure out to save any and all CC for him.
Shaco is... well broken on purpose atm b/c balancing him is close to impossible. The only high ELO Shaco main I know of is Shaclone.
The Yetii Rider1 votesDude, you're in the dark on this.
Pantheon is in no way tied to crit items. Pantheon will almost never build crit. Neither will a good Yi. Pantheon is pure AD and ArmPen. Yi is straight up ATKSPD and on-hit-effects.
Shaco is a mix of either.
Pantheon is also one of the top 3 most picked champs in Korea and is considered top 5 in NA and EU. Most people put the order of top lane as Sion, Ekko, Pantheon, Maokai and finally Swain. Swain is just straight busted right now. He's got like a 60% win rate, that's honestly completely unheard of this season. He's probably one of only 10 or so champs to ever hit that level. Nerfs incoming on 6.11.
Master Yi is probably one of the best junglers to gain ELO with right now b/c of Blood Razor. Build Blood Razor, Rage Blade, BotRK and the rest is up to you. Split push like an annoying a-hole and drag the game out til you hit 6 items or team fight with skill and instantly crush the other team with 3 items. Wait for the fight to start, wait til key ultis are used by the other team and people start to get low, then BAM! Q in and hit your ulti and clean up like crazy. People are placing him within the top 10 junglers ATM b/c of Guinsoo and Blood Razor, since tanks in the jungle are coming back and how Blood Razor works, you can invade and out duel with Challenging Smite Blood Razor and boots rather easy if you're capable of Q dodge. Once you get into higher ELO, he drops off quickly once people figure out to save any and all CC for him.
Shaco is... well broken on purpose atm b/c balancing him is close to impossible. The only high ELO Shaco main I know of is Shaclone.
Yes, and if Pantheon's Heartseeker Strike was % Missing Health as physical damage, it would actually benefit well from that armor pen. Instead it's crit damage and so you either get an Infinity Edge or you try and build for more all-around damage and do poorly.
Also, half of Pantheon's kit is magic damage. He seriously needs an update.
Master Yi's Alpha Strike can critically strike. He was intended to build Warrior and Stattik Shiv, and that's what he did before Feral Flare was ever invented.
Master Yi was underperforming, as far as I heard from the last Rioter who spoke on the subject. Bloodrazor isn't nearly as good on him as Sated was. He should be an AD assassin, not on-hit. He also needs some updates to help him actually kill people without needing tank.
Lady Hammerlock1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RgGnVEt7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-27T17:39:32.842+0000)
Shaco is definitely a powerful champion, but he (like Master Yi and Pantheon) is inherently tied to the strength of marksman items because of the critical strike tie in to his kit.
Hopefully Panth, Yi and Shaco all get changes where their crit damage is replaced by missing health damage.
Actually you can build bruiser and still be a nuisance
is pretty annoying
JafarThePanda1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RgGnVEt7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-27T17:39:32.842+0000)
Shaco is definitely a powerful champion, but he (like Master Yi and Pantheon) is inherently tied to the strength of marksman items because of the critical strike tie in to his kit.
Hopefully Panth, Yi and Shaco all get changes where their crit damage is replaced by missing health damage.
I actually prefer crits on Pantheon because it's a guarantee below X amount of health. Jungling with him and that makes it basically two smites, or at the bare minimum a soft execute.
Remlap12231 votesThis is one reason why I think Shaco is, in fact, a well-designed champion.
I upvoted this thread just to downvote this again. Shaco is quite literally the second worst champion designed in this game behind Yorick and Kalista. I await the downvotes because everyone on these stupid boards are freaking Shaco mains.
OH MY GOD I JUST FIGURED OUT WHY LEE GETS SO MUCH HATE HERE!
DrDiaga3 votesI upvoted this thread just to downvote this again. Shaco is quite literally the second worst champion designed in this game behind Yorick and Kalista. I await the downvotes because everyone on these stupid boards are freaking Shaco mains.
OH MY GOD I JUST FIGURED OUT WHY LEE GETS SO MUCH HATE HERE!
Now bring some sort of argument for that statement?
Bisaknosp1 votesno not really
IcyPepper1 votesGod, Shaco is one of the few assassins I actually like playing against.
I know I'm going to need lube after the early game, but if I can stall the game out until late game then I know I have a chance even if I'm playing a tank jungler.
He's got clear windows of weakness, but high moments of power play as well. If you replaced his stealth with a bit more mobility, he would be what Talon/Zed/whatever should have been (not with his exact kit, but his clear counterplay as well as his outplay material seems healthy to me).
Blumpkin Nation1 votesWell, the stealth mechanic is always going to be broken without a way to securely defend against it. Shaco is surprisingly strong due to this season's ridiculous masteries. I wouldn't go as far to say HE is broken, but he's definitely up there. Mainly due to the masteries and not his kit.
Meep Man1 votesSssssssssssh... no one needs to know how broken he is!
DEKInw1 voteshave you ever played full crit Shaco with the nightblue3 build... 
and if your fed enough or its 45+ mins sell boots for 
you literally q ghost blade walk behind adc/mid/support maybe smite and 3 shot them... don't even get me started on if you have rift herald buff
Kr1sys1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RgGnVEt7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-27T14:41:38.739+0000)
Many champs suffer from inherently broken kits -- even if the champ is balanced in a given patch, small changes can make the champion OP or UP. Small nerfs or buffs can send the champs to god-tier status or into oblivion. Zed, Fizz, Ekko, Lucian, Ezreal, Jax, and Xin have all suffered from this.
I cannot think of any patch that broke Shaco.
This is one reason why I think Shaco is, in fact, a well-designed champion.
It's not because he's well designed, it's because he has a niche gameplay structure that only certain players desire to play, and even when an occasion nerf or buff comes around do people actually decide to play him, and then they realize he's really hard to play well so it goes back to those niche players that have perfected his quirks.