Suggested build path change for Warrior

sWeixin VinLeous··6 votes·980 views

There isn't a reason for Warrior to build out of Brutalizer. I'd hate to remove Brutalizer from another recipe, but realistically, no jungler really builds it. (unless for Youmuu's)

Ever since 5.2, the combine cost of Warrior has been 63 gold. That 63g is going to give you 20 AD. Doesn't make much sense, does it? No one is going to go back to shop for a Brutalizer being 63g short of an extra 20 AD.

A pretty simple change I recommend would be to take an approach similar to the buildpath of Lizard Elder in early S3, which built out of Spirit Stone and Pickaxe.

item 3713 (450g) + item 1037 (875g) + item 1036 (360g) + 165g = item 3723 (2250g)

Allowing Pickaxe to build into Warrior allows for a more efficient purchase early game, makes more sense as a build path regarding the amounts of AD you get before and after completing Warrior, accentuates Warrior's early-game threat more, but still allows you to buy some early AD even if you don't have 875g.

Warrior's purpose, to provide early game threat but scale poorly, doesn't currently equal the benefits to safely scaling with Cinderhulk (even though it has a considerable power spike upon completion). I don't just want to just compare it to a more viable option, though. The build path generally just doesn't feel right in my opinion.

It feels a bit lazy for Warrior to build out of an item you'll never even purchase, while needlessly cutting the efficiency of your early game itemization.

tl;dr: Change Warrior's power to be more accessible in build path if you can afford it, instead of exclusively on completion.

10 Comments

My Anime Waifu3 votes

Having it build out of brutalizer gave a cheap build path, as a first or second back could easily grant a long sword or two. Not only that, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for an item to give flat armor pen without building out of an item with flat armor pen.

sWeixin VinLeous1 votes

Sure, it'd be a stat that doesn't stem from the build path. But again, the Brutalizer doesn't really do anything itself. It's just an excuse to give penetration/cdr when an excuse isn't needed. You could make the item build from two long swords and smite and it would be virtually the same build path.

My Anime Waifu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scooter Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb0EjNVp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-05-02T02:36:56.362+0000)

Sure, it'd be a stat that doesn't stem from the build path. But again, the Brutalizer doesn't really do anything itself. It's just an excuse to give penetration/cdr when an excuse isn't needed. You could make the item build from two long swords and smite and it would be virtually the same build path.

To be honest, it's not really that big an issue right now, as junglers who build Warrior pretty much all build brutalizer anyways (think Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Rengar, Etc.) and tend to get enough gold to buy the full item by the time they get to their 3rd or 4th back, but adding a pickaxe to the mix gets rid of options to the jungler at their 2nd back by forcing them to hold their gold because a pickaxe is too expensive. It's a small numbers sort of thing, but with getting around 1 successful gank off, that's enough often to get both long swords, but hardly anything else (assuming they bought their smite upgrade already). Adding pickaxe would just leave the jungler with an extra 300-400 gold that they couldn't invest in their jungle item besides just leaving it.

The Bíg Ticket2 votes

It's 15 AD difference from Brutalizer to Warriow upgrade. Brutalizer gives 25 AD.

As Lee Sin or other early game jungler you can get Brutalizer on your first back instead of upgrading your Machete if you got some early kills, this will help you alot to stabilize your lead over the other jungler and help snowball the game if you know what you are doing.

sWeixin VinLeous1 votes

The scenario of any jungler having more than 1337g on their first recall, Lee Sin or not, is relatively unlikely.

Even in the event that would happen, the strong, strong majority of players would pick up smite, boots, and a longsword/smite, 2 longswords. If they had 515 or 190 more gold, they could afford a pickaxe instead of that longsword, or a pickaxe in place of a longsword/boots with the build path alternative respectively.

There's almost no situation that would justify actually purchasing Brutalizer. Any situation that would warrant it is way too unimportant/unlikely for it to justify the build path.

"It's 15 AD difference from Brutalizer to Warriow upgrade. Brutalizer gives 25 AD."

Implying it's a regular practice to go back to base 63g short of 15 free AD. Technically it's 15 AD from recipe to item. Realistically it's 20.

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scooter Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rb0EjNVp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-05-02T01:00:34.605+0000)

"It's 15 AD difference from Brutalizer to Warriow upgrade. Brutalizer gives 25 AD."

Implying it's a regular practice to go back to base 63g short of 15 free AD. Technically it's 15 AD from recipe to item. Realistically it's 20.

He was talking about the AD difference between recipe and item which is 15 and not 20.

Other than that fair points, I have seen Lee Sins getting early kills and not upgrading their machete but instead get early Brutalizers because it is a huge damage spike and allows to put alot of pressure on the enemy laners and their jungler, I agree its not likely to happen but it can. If you do your buffs and then gank bot and get a double kill you are just a couple of camps short of Brutalizer.

sWeixin VinLeous1 votes

"He was talking about the AD difference between recipe and item which is 15 and not 20."

I know exactly what "he" meant. Reread what I typed.

If you do your buffs and then gank bot and get a double kill you are just a couple of camps short of Brutalizer.

This is such a ludicrously unlikely occurance for it to have any kind of relevance to the determination of the build path of an item.

Hellioning1 votes

Then there'd just be armor pen coming out of nowhere, which Riot isn't a big fan of.

sWeixin VinLeous1 votes

It's already realistically coming out of nowhere rofl. Literally nothing changes except your AD in the process of building.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

A lot of those champs frequently build a brute and then never upgrade it, because it's a solid item for AD casters. Some get warrior and then a second brute. It's fine as is.

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