I have a question for anyone in bronze or silver, Please, I just want answers

weeaboomer·Mar 2, 2016·7 votes·1,227 views

How do you explain people solo-carrying themselves out of bronze/silver? People that buy boosts from someone that will carry them out of bronze/silver?

If your logic is correct, neither of those people would ever leave bronze because their teams would always be bad and they can't carry alone.

How would you explain me hopping into your bronze 5 account, keeping a 100% win rate up to silver 5?

Please, honest answers...

Edit: Please answer if you're going to down vote. Why did you down vote?

41 Comments

Mayor StubbsMar 2, 20163 votes

I dont get the question

weeaboomerMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mayor Stubbs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:41:03.624+0000)

I dont get the question

Well, everytime someone in silver/bronze posts on here, it's about how they're challenger level but can't climb due to bad team mates. So my question is, why can everybody else climb out and you can't when you claim to be of superior skill level? According to them it's based on luck and "good team mates" in order to climb.

Mayor StubbsMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:45:20.578+0000)

Well, everytime someone in silver/bronze posts on here, it's about how they're challenger level but can't climb due to bad team mates. So my question is, why can everybody else climb out and you can't when you claim to be of superior skill level? According to them it's based on luck and "good team mates" in order to climb.

oh i see

JVP15Mar 2, 20163 votes

"MY TEAM KEEPS GOING 0-16 IN LANE WTF CANT CARRY THIS NOOB TEAM" "JUNGLER NEVER GANKS OTHER JUNGLE HAS GANKED LIKE 10 TIMES"

Um, I guess their logic is that their teams are always trash and everyone else has a god tier team. I am not bronze. No, I am not even level 30, but, I mean, come on. A mindset like that is self-destructive. I mean yes, when I am support I help win lane, but other lanes didn't do so well, I might be a tad annoyed, but there really isn't anything I can do except try to get my carry even more fed even though this Yasuo is 6-2.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"MY TEAM KEEPS GOING 0-16 IN LANE WTF CANT CARRY THIS NOOB TEAM" "JUNGLER NEVER GANKS OTHER JUNGLE HAS GANKED LIKE 10 TIMES"

Um, I guess their logic is that their teams are always trash and everyone else has a god tier team. I am not bronze. No, I am not even level 30, but, I mean, come on. A mindset like that is self-destructive. I mean yes, when I am support I help win lane, but other lanes didn't do so well, I might be a tad annoyed, but there really isn't anything I can do except try to get my carry even more fed even though this Yasuo is 6-2.

I also find it funny how they claim they always go 20-0-50 every game and when you look at their history they have matches where they went 0-10,0-8,1-5 etc that kind of game performance is what they complain about in their teams when they themselves play exactly the same.

And yes, it is a self destructive mindset. A big part of becoming decent at the game is accepting that one is trash.

KillerKellMar 2, 20162 votes

Let's take me, for an example.

If you look at my Pre-Rework Shen and my Braum, you see over 3.5 KDA and over 60% Win Rates on both Champions for my Ranked Career.

On Pre-Rework Shen and Braum, I'm likely a Gold Level Player.

However, I didn't want to get to Gold and only have 2 Viable Champions. Instead, I wanted to raise when I was ready to play Multiple Champions in Multiple Roles. Of course, now they come out with Dynamic Q where I'm highly likely to get my best Role... so this division isn't needed now. But the point was, I wanted to be a Gold+ PLAYER, not a Gold Plus Champion or Two.

So I've played almost every Champion in Ranked since Pre-Season 4 when I started. Not all of them, but probably 90%+ in actual Ranked Games. It's because I want a Roster of Champions to take up with me, and for me 2.5 KDA and 60% are the Stats (metrics, if you will) I use to justify a Champion 'worthy' of rising (minimum of 10 Games).

So had I just only played Braum and Pre-Rework Shen, I'd likely have already climbed... just to get to Gold or Better without a full skill set and very limited Champion Knowledge, likely just to be brought back down when forced to play other Champions.

Also, I'd like to take a moment to address 'Elo Hell'.

Elo Hell does exist... but it's not what people think. You having 'dumb' team mates is NOT Elo Hell.

I placed myself, unintentionally, in Elo Hell at Season 4. I had horrid Placements, largely due to the fact that (1) I sucked, (2) I had no Tier 3 Runes and (3) I had exactly 16 Champions. In other words, I went RIGHT to Ranked, and it was WAY to early.

So my MMR starts to drop, as it should. Not complaining here at all. That is as it SHOULD be.

But then I started to notice an awful lot of DC, AFK and Troll. So I was running into Bad Internet Connections (DC), flamers quitting (AFK) and Trolls feeding free Wins to the Enemy.

I was so bad, I had dropped my MMR to the level of guys who either can not Win because of Internet Connections, can not Win because they get pissed and Quit, or can not Win because they CHOOSE not to Win. Imagine how low that MMR must be.

THAT is Elo Hell. The point where your MMR is equal to those who have hamsters in toasters for a PC, your MMR is equal to those who have Tourette's Syndrom because the Support hit a Minion with a Basic Attack, your MMR is equal to those that INTENTIONALLY LOSE.

Once you are in Elo Hell, it's all 'chance' at that point. Because there WILL be an AFK, there WILL be a DC, there WILL be a Troll. Now STATISTICS will say that the Enemy Team will face this as much as you will... but that's a general and inaccurate statement.

I faced an insanely high Rate of Disrupted Games of 52% in Season 4. That means in 52% of the Ranked Games I played, there was an AFK or DC (I didn't even count Trolls). Of those, 82% of the time it turned out MY Team was at the Disadvantage.

Somewhere in the world some lucky bastard was only having an AFK/DC on his team 20% of the time, and some one else was 50/50 to even it all out.

I got the statistical short end of the stick.

Which meant as I improved as a player, it was still very difficult for me to carry when at the Disadvantage so often.

THAT is Elo Hell. But the caveat is that YOU put YOURSELF there for it to happen. And that there IS a chance that it affects you far less than others (you might be the lucky guy only having the disadvantage 20% of the time, meaning 80% of the time you play AT an Advantage, helping you get out even quicker).

Since then I've climbed to BI, then pulled back trying riskier Champions in more 'Carry' Roles. It wasn't until just this Season that my ADC Game is nearing the point I'm ready to move on with it, and my Support and Engage Tank are already there... so just things like Assassins and Mages really left and I try to start a legit climb with a full pool of Champions.

But I'd put my Braum, my Pre-Rework Shen up against anybody up to and including Gold Level Players (and have, in Custom Games). I'm starting to get to Silver/Gold Levels on more Champions as well. And thanks to playing a ton of Support and a ton of Shen, Map Awareness and Warding are skills I pride myself on. But I'm not ready as a Complete Player yet to really make that push.

Some find it just fine to take 1 Champion as high as they can go, and I don't fault them for that. To each their own. I just want to be a Gold+ Player, not a Gold+ Champion. I'm not good enough at ALL ROLES yet to do that, so here I am, still at Lower Levels.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Some find it just fine to take 1 Champion as high as they can go, and I don't fault them for that. To each their own. I just want to be a Gold+ Player, not a Gold+ Champion. I'm not good enough at ALL ROLES yet to do that, so here I am, still at Lower Levels.

I don't doubt your ability to be able to climb to gold, anyone can do it.

A few points though, trying to main every champion in the game is counterproductive. It will make it more difficult to climb out trust me.

Also, looking at your matches you still need to improve on your item and summoner choices. Some of your builds don't make sense, some of your summoner spells options are questionable.

If you really like braum and the new shen, give them a try and main those 2. I think maining 2 champions isn't a bad idea and might just help you climb a hell of a lot more easier. You now have the option to choose 2 roles and there you go, you got 2 options you're familiar with.

I suggest practicing more in normals though, it's what I do to get more comfortable with a champion even more and maybe try out new builds before I head to rank.

Good luck.

KillerKellMar 2, 20161 votes

A few things.

First off, thanks for the response. Now, off to the races. :P

I'm no longer in Elo Hell. It was a long, hard struggle... but my MMR is finally back to a place where I'm not effected by that many AFK/DC anymore. So WOOHOO to that! Just being 'In Bronze' isn't Elo Hell... it's having an MMR that constantly puts you with AFK/DC that is Elo Hell, and it takes some major suckage to find that. :D

On Shen, I absolutely hate new Shen and have yet to Win with him. 0-5, after being a 3.75 KDA and 61.25% Win Rate since Season 4 in Ranked with him. He's now, basically, dead to me.

As far as Builds and Summoners I'd love to have an open and honest discussion on those areas.

My greatest weakness at this point is being (Support Main from the start) to Team Oriented... by which I mean that I'll farm well in lane, then group, then practically forgo Farm to stay with Team and Push Objectives, even as my Jungle branches off to snag CS, my Mid clears a wave at a Turret, etc. So I get to much into the Grouping and 'forget' to go back and push that CS lead even more, safely, then regroup. It's a bad habit I need to break out of.

I'm open about my play and ability (I should never, ever, ever, ever, ever play Zed... for instance) and am even willing to open up my LOLKing on here, with one caveat. Trying so many Champions obviously leads to finding many you simply fail at. So CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is awesome, but telling me my (for instance) Season 4 1-6 Mundo is 'bad' doesn't quiet cut it. :P

So by all means, let's open up some Match History and discuss. I'm all for learning. But please do understand that IN SOME CASES my build is INTENDED to be a certain way because what Wins in Bronze can be vastly different from what Wins in Higher Elo (due to either the wonkiness of the Enemy Team/Comp/Builds, or due to me not being Mechanically Skilled enough to pull of certain Meta Builds... I mean if I'm not skilled enough to Win with the Build but I am fairly good with the Champ, then I just build what works for me).

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So by all means, let's open up some Match History and discuss. I'm all for learning. But please do understand that IN SOME CASES my build is INTENDED to be a certain way because what Wins in Bronze can be vastly different from what Wins in Higher Elo (due to either the wonkiness of the Enemy Team/Comp/Builds, or due to me not being Mechanically Skilled enough to pull of certain Meta Builds... I mean if I'm not skilled enough to Win with the Build but I am fairly good with the Champ, then I just build what works for me).

Fair enough.

Feel free to add me if you'd like and we can play some normals and we can go from there. Beware that we may face some high elo people, the highest probably diamond 5 if you're fine with that.

I haven't been on in a while but I can hop on tomorrow so we can play some games. I'm on pacific time so let me know when you want to hop on and play.

KillerKellMar 2, 20161 votes

Awesome.

I won't be on again likely until Friday or Saturday. Hopefully I hit some good truck stops, some have surprisingly good internet. When they do, I play. Also when stuck out Week Ends away from home, I generally get a Hotel and play it up hard core for the Week End. (I drive Temp Control Trucks over the road.)

I never play at home anymore, Hughesnet... just can't play on Satellite Internet.

Feel free to check the Ranked Stats in the mean time, and especially Match History for those Build discussions.

mogonkMar 2, 20161 votes

cool strawman bro

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

cool strawman bro

Care to elaborate "bro"

mogonkMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:51:33.476+0000)

Care to elaborate "bro"

I mean, unless you want me to explain what a strawman is my comment is pretty self explanatory.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean, unless you want me to explain what a strawman is my comment is pretty self explanatory.

Maybe I don't understand what a straw man is. But it doesn't look to me as if you're refuting anything.

mogonkMar 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:56:42.876+0000)

Maybe I don't understand what a straw man is. But it doesn't look to me as if you're refuting anything.

sigh. okay.

You're presenting a cartoonish, simplified version of the argument you want to address ("I'm challenger level, but can't climb out of bronze!"). Then by refuting that "strawman" argument, you pretend to have refuted the actual argument, when you haven't.

The point about the difficulty of climbing in ranked is not that skill doesn't make a statistical difference in your win %. It's that as you approach your "true" division, the amount by which your skill exceeds that of your opponents decreases and the statistical difference made by your skill becomes small by comparison with the random element introduced by your teams performance.

For example if you take a player whose overall skill is closest to that typified by the platinum division, he can get from bronze to silver in a handful of games. Silver to gold takes substantially longer, and gold to platinum can potentially take forever, depending on how lucky he gets. As the players he's up against get stronger, the impact that his individual skill has on the game gets less and less. Even if he's still measurably better than almost everyone he plays against, he's not so much better that his presence in the game decides the game's outcome in any reliable sense. Rising in ranking once you get close to your "true" division becomes a matter of grinding until the small statistical advantage that you provide your team is actually recognized by the system. This is an inherent flaw to a system that assesses individual skill based on team performance.

Having a run of good luck can be enough to push you through those last few leagues to the point where you plateau. So can grinding. But there are players, lots of players, who haven't been that lucky and lack either the time or the inclination to just keep spamming ranked games until they slowly climb.

But all of this is pretty obvious if you actually spend some time thinking about the issue instead of making a thinly disguised brag post to pat yourself on the back about how much better you are than those dirty bronzie plebs.

Mysticman89Mar 2, 20162 votes

I approve of this explanation.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But all of this is pretty obvious if you actually spend some time thinking about the issue instead of making a thinly disguised brag post to pat yourself on the back about how much better you are than those dirty bronzie plebs.

sigh, thanks for misunderstanding the thread.

Anyways, let me use myself as an example. Okay, this account you're looking at, it was in bronze 4 in S5. Okay? Okay. I decided to only play irelia and pretty much got her in 95% of my games. I skipped idk what division in bronze, then another in silver. Okay, doing good. Continue playing and boom plat 5. 80% win rate on irelia and I believe a winrate overall of 70% maybe?

Guess what? Everything below plat 5 was extremely fucking easy for me so quoting you "gold to platinum can potentially take forever, depending on how lucky he gets." That wasn't the case for me. And no, I didn't get "lucky" as every other low elo player brings up in all of their damn arguments, I carried all those games on my own.

Stop being delusional because no matter how many times you bring up: luck, bad team mates, trolls, afks, feeders, those arguments are never going to be true.

mogonkMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=000200000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:26:03.116+0000)

Guess what? Everything below plat 5 was extremely fucking easy for me so quoting you "gold to platinum can potentially take forever, depending on how lucky he gets." That wasn't the case for me. And no, I didn't get "lucky" as every other low elo player brings up in all of their damn arguments, I carried all those games on my own.

Then you're actually a diamond+ player. If your presence in a game in Gold is enough to guarantee a win, you are not just barely better than gold. You are substantially better than gold. This is common sense. One player on one team being slightly better than everyone else is not enough to decide the game. That one player has to be substantially better for the likelihood of his team winning to be dramatically higher.

I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand.

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

Explain what he is falsifying about this "I can't carry myself out of Elo Hell because of bad teamates" argument to make it a "strawman" argument.

No flash no lifeMar 2, 20161 votes

If the gap of skill difference is too wide for you to stomp and you go on winning streak, it's possible for the system to automatically raise you to higher divisions. This happened to me when I was placed silver 4, won a few games, then was notified that I've been moved to silver 2. Hence, it's possible that the bronze 5 guy performs extremely well and leaps over divisions the same way I did, resulting in 100% win rate after he gets to silver 5.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=No flash no life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:51:32.883+0000)

If the gap of skill difference is too wide for you to stomp and you go on winning streak, it's possible for the system to automatically raise you to higher divisions. This happened to me when I was placed silver 4, won a few games, then was notified that I've been moved to silver 2. Hence, it's possible that the bronze 5 guy performs extremely well and leaps over divisions the same way I did, resulting in 100% win rate after he gets to silver 5.

Exactly.

The DeckownerMar 2, 20161 votes

after just losing a 50 minute 4v5 game...I really wanna call out these ragequitter/rage feeder/troll who ruin people's game by not simply causing the lost but also making other 4 members of the team waste their time suffering the minutes they need to go through.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:59:01.293+0000)

after just losing a 50 minute 4v5 game...I really wanna call out these ragequitter/rage feeder/troll who ruin people's game by not simply causing the lost but also making other 4 members of the team waste their time suffering the minutes they need to go through.

Which doesn't happen 100% of the time and also happen up in challenger, yes challenger!

The DeckownerMar 2, 20161 votes

because league of legends players are all toxic no matter what level of mechanic they have achieve, league players are one of the worst human beings created by RITO games.

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

Honestly it is a skill thing.

HOWEVER, no matter how good you are, you can't solve problems with toxic people and trolls.

Toxicity will kill a team faster than a fed diamond smurf Riven; some players will simply spend the entire game flaming their teammates, which means you can be in a 1v5 situation due to these people spending more time typing than actually playing the game.

In Silver especially, there are teammates who will LITERALLY give up and refuse to play anymore, making it that much more difficult to solo carry games. Even more frequently are players who refuse to follow your advice, which can be equally frustrating.

Finally, there are, on rare occasions, people who choose to intentionally lose the match because they got their feelings hurt or because they simply feel like it. This is still the most common in Silver and Bronze, although completely over exaggerated.

Overall, yes, you can easily carry yourself out of "Elo Hell" if you are legitimately skilled enough to do so. However, being a division or so below your actual skill level is completely believable because of the frequency of toxic players, selfish players, and occasional trolls.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:04:03.586+0000)

However, being a division or so below your actual skill level is completely believable because of the frequency of toxic players, selfish players, and occasional trolls.

No it's not, that's like me claiming to be diamond level when clearly i'm not since I have yet to hit diamond 5.

One needs to differentiate between a real troll or someone who just happen to be doing bad on the game. I don't go ape shit on someone who's doing bad unless it's legitimate trolling like 7 tears and mobis.

I feel like this is a problem low elo people have. They see everything as a troll and if they encounter one afk/troll in 1 game out of 100, they come here claiming they see them every game.

Every time I look at people in bronze's match history, it clearly tells me they're there because they belong there.

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

Notice how I'm not claiming I deserve a higher rank than I actually am.

It'd be more on the level of a Silver 1 player claiming to be as skilled as a Gold 3 player (since he's probably getting paired against quite a few of them anyway).

I did say that on "rare occasions" people decide to troll, noting that it is more frequent in Silver and Bronze (and Plat) for this to happen. I also added that the whole notion of trolls being in every game is "completely over exaggerated."

Also, I may not go ape shit on someone for doing poorly, but in low elos, there is ALWAYS someone who WILL flame that person.

Finally, I don't know why you post up this thread if you aren't going to even try to see something from other people's perspective, writing off any of their reasoning as bronze noobs complaining about being bad.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:22:20.393+0000)

Notice how I'm not claiming I deserve a higher rank than I actually am.

It'd be more on the level of a Silver 1 player claiming to be as skilled as a Gold 3 player (since he's probably getting paired against quite a few of them anyway).

I did say that on "rare occasions" people decide to troll, noting that it is more frequent in Silver and Bronze (and Plat) for this to happen. I also added that the whole notion of trolls being in every game is "completely over exaggerated."

Also, I may not go ape shit on someone for doing poorly, but in low elos, there is ALWAYS someone who WILL flame that person.

Finally, I don't know why you post up this thread if you aren't going to even try to see something from other people's perspective, writing off any of their reasoning as bronze noobs complaining about being bad.

I was basing it on the arguments i tend to see on these boards. It's always how these problems are only unique to them and nobody else deals with them.

I don't think one can claim to be of higher skill level than their division clearly shows. Even if it's something like you being plat 5 claiming to be plat 4 skill level. Unless you hit plat 4, you will remain to be plat 5.

I just want to know why it's always the same mindset of everyone but me? Any type of criticism that is meant to help them improve they ignore it and go back to claiming it's all luck and their teams. Idk

48983507DEL1Mar 2, 20161 votes

You could put up some argument that you WOULD'VE been Plat 4 if some unfortunate circumstance had occurred that ruined your Promo game, completely out of your control, but I understand your point. I just am able to sympathize better since we've all been in that situation at least once or twice.

There are people who share your opinion about low elo players falsely having these "my teams always suck!" problems, you probably just spend a lot of time on the dark "Recent" section of the Gameplay Boards.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:45:58.973+0000)

You could put up some argument that you WOULD'VE been Plat 4 if some unfortunate circumstance had occurred that ruined your Promo game, completely out of your control, but I understand your point. I just am able to sympathize better since we've all been in that situation at least once or twice.

There are people who share your opinion about low elo players falsely having these "my teams always suck!" problems, you probably just spend a lot of time on the dark "Recent" section of the Gameplay Boards.

I'll admit, there is a some luck involved, but not what one would think. Like you said in promos, what if 2 people on my team had their power go out? obviously that was out of my control and the game was obviously over, but that doesn't mean that one occurrence will prevent me from climbing back into the promos.

That of course will happen rarely and should not be used by them to explain why they're stuck there. Like, i'd love to be able to help you in your games if you're open to criticism but most of the time when I suggest certain things, these dark sections of the gameplay boards lol, they ignore all of them.

Definitely BaitMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-03-02T05:13:50.676+0000)

No it's not, that's like me claiming to be diamond level when clearly i'm not since I have yet to hit diamond 5.

One needs to differentiate between a real troll or someone who just happen to be doing bad on the game. I don't go ape shit on someone who's doing bad unless it's legitimate trolling like 7 tears and mobis.

I feel like this is a problem low elo people have. They see everything as a troll and if they encounter one afk/troll in 1 game out of 100, they come here claiming they see them every game.

Every time I look at people in bronze's match history, it clearly tells me they're there because they belong there.

Alright looking at my ranked match history do you truly believe I should of had to go through the bronze IV promos 3 times now?

I personally believe I should of fallen to Bronze 5 considering my cs is inadequate and I have plenty of games in recent history where I tilted hard and fed like a pro. Legitimately the games where I died over 6 times should never be happening and I should be getting around 6.0 cs per minute or higher even in losing matchups in mid. I've also not been buying enough pink wards and still have a lot of room to make my item builds better.

Normal history is kinda skewed I've played a lot of normals after imbibing in half a fifth or more of hard alcohol in a short amount of time lately. Which causes me to do some really strange picks and in general become more prone to feeding.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Definitely Bait,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2016-03-02T06:17:30.558+0000)

Alright looking at my ranked match history do you truly believe I should of had to go through the bronze IV promos 3 times now?

I personally believe I should of fallen to Bronze 5 considering my cs is inadequate and I have plenty of games in recent history where I tilted hard and fed like a pro. Legitimately the games where I died over 6 times should never be happening and I should be getting around 6.0 cs per minute or higher even in losing matchups in mid. I've also not been buying enough pink wards and still have a lot of room to make my item builds better.

Normal history is kinda skewed I've played a lot of normals after imbibing in half a fifth or more of hard alcohol in a short amount of time lately. Which causes me to do some really strange picks and in general become more prone to feeding.

Idk if I understand what you're asking but are you saying you shouldn't be hitting bronze 4 promos to 3 and instead you feel like you should be bronze 5?

Looking at your history, you have the potential to climb out. Something to keep in mind though is that to a game, there's more to going positive or getting 200 cs in 10 minutes. For example, i've had games before as irelia where I was pretty fed but guess what? I lost.

It involved poor decision making and throwing away that lead, even if i ended that game 15-3, the loss still happened. You need to be able to adapt to your game and be able to abuse w/e lead you got, otherwise that 30-0 riven can potentially still lose the game.

Definitely BaitMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2016-03-02T06:40:54.135+0000)

Idk if I understand what you're asking but are you saying you shouldn't be hitting bronze 4 promos to 3 and instead you feel like you should be bronze 5?

Looking at your history, you have the potential to climb out. Something to keep in mind though is that to a game, there's more to going positive or getting 200 cs in 10 minutes. For example, i've had games before as irelia where I was pretty fed but guess what? I lost.

It involved poor decision making and throwing away that lead, even if i ended that game 15-3, the loss still happened. You need to be able to adapt to your game and be able to abuse w/e lead you got, otherwise that 30-0 riven can potentially still lose the game.

Getting bronze / silver teams to keep a lead and close out games is indeed the hard part. Chasing for kills instead of taking towers / drags / baron is a fact of life down here. Any lane that gets a gank and goes positive will proceed to go full rambo and nullify the gold lead near instantly. Players will second pick into a hard counter matchup and repeatedly keep the lane pushed to the enemy turret for no reason and then proceed to die multiple times and repeatedly push the lane again instead of going passive.

The only strategy that exists mid to late game down here is group up as 5 and force the team fight. Even if you've got a poke comp and they've got a full team of hard engage. It's still going to be go aram and pray for the enemy team to fail. Waiting for them to pull off a few people to handle the split pusher before engaging is just too complicated for bronze / silvers to understand in most cases.

Getting fed and performing consistently cs wise feels like the only way to get anyone to even think about the calls or pings.

Playing in bronze / silver is like herding lemmings. You can try to guide them to safety and they will proceed to keep running at the cliff.

I feel like most games where I don't get strong enough to literally roam / split push and take the objectives by myself are always hellacious nearly assured losses. It's go greatly positive or die. The middle ground of just going even, playing safe and not feeding to win games where you're doing badly just doesn't feel like it exists in most games at this level. (Aka just making yourself easy to carry isn't anywhere close to as viable as it is at higher elos). Basically If I'm not strong enough to do it myself nearly without their help or strong + intelligent enough to abuse my team's bad choices to get more objectives it feels like a sure loss.

If I can't consistently carry hard enough to force objectives myself and coerce / trick my fellow plastic league players into being useful, then I deserve a demotion. It's that simple. The cs is just sure relatively safe gold and the kda is just a result of gaining this strength.

JRobin31Mar 2, 20161 votes

I might as well join in and share some of my own experience.

Last season, I played more than 300 games in ELO Hell. When I queued up to play, I fully expected an afk to occur. When it was my opponent, I acknowledged it and told them I was sorry they had an afk (because it sucks). When it was my team that got the afk, I tried my hardest to carry anyways. Sometimes I was successful: my most notable achievement was carrying a 0/35/0 Draven "adc" who ran straight up mid lane like a robot just to continuously feed the enemy. When I say I carried, I mean that after that game a teammate acknowledged me for carrying that game. Despite being that good, I was still in Bronze and unable to make headway. I don't imagine that I am Challenger or Diamond or Platinum or Gold. I had two accounts in that same season and only the one account was stuck. The other Silver account didn't have these problems in games that I played.

Up until this point, I was in firm denial that ELO Hell existed. But faced with the mounting evidence that my two accounts weren't just a division or two apart but a full 5 divisions apart, I stopped taking the oblivious attitude that ELO Hell didn't exist and started thinking that maybe it was something real that I had to deal with if I wanted to get my account up to Silver. With this realization, I sought help and started changing my approach to the game. And, after much hard work, my account progressed.

It's not uncommon for players that easily progress up to Platinum or better to condescend to those of us that find ourselves struggling at the lower ELOs and make light of the difficulties we face - the most blatant and useless of their comments being to tell us that ELO Hell doesn't exist: we just suck.

As to your ability to hop onto a Bronze V account and "100%" win rate it up to Silver V... okay, good for you. It doesn't really help me improve my game. So your ability to do that is useless to me. What's actually useful to me is information that helps me improve my game.

weeaboomerMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I stopped taking the oblivious attitude that ELO Hell didn't exist and started thinking that maybe it was something real that I had to deal with if I wanted to get my account up to Silver. With this realization, I sought help and started changing my approach to the game. And, after much hard work, my account progressed.

Okay, something I noticed here is that you sort of contradicted yourself. In a way, you admitted elo hell isn't real, why do I say that? "With this realization, I sought help and started changing my approach to the game. And, after much hard work, my account progressed."

To me it seems you came to the realization that you needed to improve as a player in order to climb, and not that elo hell is real. You stated you seeked help and changing your approach to the game.

This change in mindset that there were things you could be doing better motivated you to start looking for ways to become a better player. And look, you noticed improvement!

There isn't an outside force keeping you in low elo. It's an INSIDE force, meaning your own mindset, a self fulfilling prophecy.

You're not going to get better by claiming you're a god at the game. I tell myself that i'm bad at the game, which in fact, is true. This motivates me to try and improve because I know i'm not perfect at the game.

My suggestion is that you try that again, and maybe this time, you will reach gold ;).

Gl.

JRobin31Mar 20, 20161 votes

That would make sense if I had believed in ELO Hell before I came to the realization. But that fact is that I didn't believe in ELO Hell. I thought it was just mind set. I was wrong about that.

weeaboomerMar 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That would make sense if I had believed in ELO Hell before I came to the realization. But that fact is that I didn't believe in ELO Hell. I thought it was just mind set. I was wrong about that.

what?

JRobin31Mar 20, 20161 votes

I used to not believe in ELO Hell. I would read posts on the forum and believe that the players making those posts just needed to get better at the game. Then I actually experienced ELO Hell for hundreds of games. Then I did research into what ELO Hell actually is. Then I realized that not only was it a real thing, but that I was better off acknowledging it as a real thing then living in self-denial of it. Then I played another couple hundred games to get to my end of season goal. This was a lot of dedicated work.

The fact that I had to do this isn't a reflection of your experience playing the game. And maybe that is why you don't understand it. But even though your experience in the game is different doesn't mean you should make light of players who have to struggle to achieve their goals. Yes, maybe you could jump onto my account and 100% win it up to Silver V. But you are not me. So it doesn't really do anything for me if you can do this.

If I had continued to live in denial of the existence of ELO Hell, I might not have made the adjustments I needed.

I think that saying that you can go from Bronze V to Silver V with 100% win rate is basically a subtle way of saying that players at that ELO suck at the game. Otherwise, how could you possibly expect to win like that? Luck?

To be clear, I'm not saying that you can't solo carry out of Bronze. I'm not saying you couldn't do it with 100% win rate. But then you have the audacity to go on the forums and ask players who are in Silver and Bronze what they think about your ability to do that? [slayer-jinx-unamused]

weeaboomerMar 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't meant to be subtle by the way. And no, I came here to dispel the myth of elo hell by asking you guys to explain how I can easily climb out of bronze easily even if I "experience" all those things you guys bring up for not being able to climb out.

In the end, you guys never have a logical explanation other than some unknown force keepin you there. What is elo hell? Because what I understand from reading anyone ever mentioning is just that, some unknown force wanting you to stay in bronze, which is just bs and more excuses.

And no, acknowledging elo hell as real wasn't a good idea on your part. What I would recommend is acknowledging that it isn't real and that maybe, just maybe, you need to work and improve your league skills? Why is that so hard to admit, that you need to improve at the game?

There's nothing wrong with admitting you're bad at something. I don't expect to go play a sport for the first time and expect myself to be a god.

JRobin31Mar 22, 20161 votes

Last season, when I was experiencing ELO Hell it took the form of game after game for hundreds of games where for reasons beyond my comprehension (because it happened so often) there was usually an AFK on my team or an AFK on the opposing team. When the AFK occurred on my team it meant we had to carry 4v5 and even if we were doing well my team would usually surrender rather than play 4v5. When the AFK occurred on the opposing team, the game would usually be surrendered by the opposing team. So here is the question: is your skill great enough to consistently carry 4v5? If it is, then good for you. But for many players such as myself carrying 4v5 was difficult. That AFK usually decided the game. I did slowly get better at carrying 4v5. But AFKs tend to lose games and that is why AFKs are correlated with lower ELO.

The reason I felt held back is because I had a second account also with hundreds of games sitting comfortably a full five divisions higher up that did not seem to have these problems so consistently game to game.

ELO Hell isn't just about AFKs. Flaming is correlated with lower ELO. In fact, RIOT even put out an article explaining how flaming your teammates tended to lose games and put a help tip on the load screen to let players know that flaming their teammates loses games. So you can sit there and tell me that ELO Hell is a myth but I don't see how believing that helps me. I mean you say that if I just pretend ELO Hell doesn't exist, then I can improve my game. How?

Saying ELO Hell doesn't exist is like saying that players that AFK or flame or deliberately try to lose games don't exist. The reality is that they do exist and that those sorts of actions lower their ELO. Acknowledging ELO Hell can be a first step towards realizing that that game you just scored a massive KDA on wasn't because you played so awesome but because the enemy team was having an ELO Hell experience (such as an AFK or teammates flaming).

I don't mean that ignoring ELO Hell and pretending that it doesn't exist doesn't work for some players. But it didn't work for me because I'm not so skilled that I can go from Bronze V to Silver V with 100% win rate and then make a post on forum asking everyone who is still in Bronze if they can explain why I am so awesome. I didn't conquer ELO Hell by ignoring it. I conquered it by acknowledging that I was in it.

ZLbSwAR23IMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPa8YWMB,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-02T04:30:10.441+0000)

How do you explain people solo-carrying themselves out of bronze/silver? People that buy boosts from someone that will carry them out of bronze/silver?

If your logic is correct, neither of those people would ever leave bronze because their teams would always be bad and they can't carry alone.

How would you explain me hopping into your bronze 5 account, keeping a 100% win rate up to silver 5?

Please, honest answers...

Edit: Please answer if you're going to down vote. Why did you down vote?

It's absolute rubbish, mate.

People need to realise that they aren't as good as they think they are. I realised that myself and improved massively.

I've got quite a few smurfs for fun (this being one of them) and have an old account from when I played on NA. S4 Bronze. Logged on for a laugh, went to do placements. 9-1, placed Bronze 2. Won 6 games in a row after that, was getting insane LP because the MMR was high from high win rate I guess. Straight into Silver 5. I'm only platinum on my main.

It's extremely easy to get out of Bronze and Silver. People who complain about it just aren't good enough.