The flaws of the League ranked system rest on skill being a fluid concept.

Rins Thigh Socks··3 votes·313 views

I get it, promos are frustrating and feel unfair. Games where you get fed and then lose feel unfair. Sometimes it feels like Riot is trying to lock you at 50% winrate whether or not you deserve the win or not.

But the issue with League, or any MMR system, is that it is based on analyzing human skill levels and 100s, if not 1000s, of variables when not everyone has the same skillset. That guy who inted 0/4 and caused your team to forfeit? Perhaps he was a teamfighting god who wins those fights 10x harder than the guy who stomped him in lane.

To add insult, skill levels fluctuate based on things like the time of day, champion they're playing, and champion they're playing against.

Yes, certain elos should have baseline skills, but everything past those skills is entirely up to what the player explores and intends to learn. The reason that high elo seems to be so caught up on all the exact same concepts is because

  1. Confirmation bias. I see games where pros feed and lose and games where they stomp. Are the games usually closer? No. There are fewer deaths and better decisions, but that's because of point number 2.

  2. Knowledge is exclusive until you get into high elo. They're almost all friends and as such they play with each other and share the same knowledge. They know how to not die and keep high cs scores and what calls to go for because they've experienced these things over thousands of games or they tell their friends to help them get better.

So outside of baseline skills (which are usually incredibly high in D1 50 LP and above, which explains the marginally closer matches), players are free to explore the skills and traits they want to. There are still disparities, but they're not as pronounced.

Bronze and SIlver have very few of those baseline skills. Almost all of them can cs well (I started in S3, so the fact that Bronze 5 can now somewhat frequently get 6-8 cs a minute in some of their games blew my mind), but outside of csing, lane trading skills are radically different, so are roaming, splitpushing, objective control, zoning, and teamfighting. And on top of that, they can have moments of clarity in which they make decisions that are tiers ahead of their peers. Maybe they just figured out how to properly use Caitlyn traps to zone people off towers, and if they keep playing Caitlyn they will rise to whatever elo similarly skilled players are playing at.

**TL;DR **that is why skill is so hard of a concept for us to grasp or gauge effectively. Some people are similarly skilled but focus on specific traits. Sometimes people play characters that their personal skill is much lower/higher with. Sometimes you just get better at the game and need to grind out a few matches for your rank to truly reflect your skill. But, your rank is a reflection of your average skill level and if your average skill level gets higher, you will climb (vice versa for dropping) and start to see real progress. Your skill level constantly changes, and this is one of the better systems to judge a fluctuating skill level (raw MMR systems are usually better, in my experience).

As a consolation I do agree a QoL change would be starting new ranked players with lower MMR. Perhaps Bronze 3-2?

9 Comments

256Bit1 votes

well said

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}

well said

Thanks m8.

This is usually a pretty hard concept for most people to grasp on their own.

Not because it's difficult but because it rarely crosses peoples' minds.

256Bit1 votes

yeah so many people complain about getting stuck (often in bronze) but really don't put in the effort to improve their skills and knowledge yet complain a=bout the system being "rigged".

50000000000000001 votes

There's probably some stats on how well new player play. Instead of placing them in the median MMR of all ranked players (which is about silver 3 or 4, iirc), maybe they should be placed in median MMR of all new ranked players?

deadlychuck1 votes

I'll be honest up front, i just read the TL;DR because i'm about to go to sleep. But wanted to leave a quick comment.

Skill based on champion competency is shallow, because that means you're win rate is heavily dependent on the champions you pick to play.

If I'm playing a champion which is weaker than most champions, i'm going to get a lower ranking than other players who are equally skilled at the game (in general) as myself, but are choosing to play and practice champions based on the win rate of those champions. Simply put, there will always be a rank margin of error at least as large as the largest power disparity between the champions.

Trying to get more accurate rankings by decreasing this error is extremely risky, because it's going to come at the expense of different aspects of the game which people find enjoyable or satisfying.

Realistically, i think people have become too obsessed with how they rank relative to other players and riot have catered to people obsessing over it too much. You should get regular updates on your standing instead of a constant "less specific" update. Let's say monthly? You get just a raw number out of all the players who have played ranked this month in your region (to keep riot's player numbers private)

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}

I'll be honest up front, i just read the TL;DR because i'm about to go to sleep. But wanted to leave a quick comment.

Skill based on champion competency is shallow, because that means you're win rate is heavily dependent on the champions you pick to play.

If I'm playing a champion which is weaker than most champions, i'm going to get a lower ranking than other players who are equally skilled at the game (in general) as myself, but are choosing to play and practice champions based on the win rate of those champions. Simply put, there will always be a rank margin of error at least as large as the largest power disparity between the champions.

Part of skill is knowing how to properly draft and pick champions. If you intentionally gimp yourself by picking a bad champion, that shows that you are less skilled than your opponent.

That might sound arrogant or harsh but if you're each given an equal chance and you choose something inferior, you're not making the better decision, and decision-making is a crucial piece in League.

deadlychuck1 votes

Part of skill is knowing how to properly draft and pick champions. If you intentionally gimp yourself by picking a bad champion, that shows that you are less skilled than your opponent.


If you intentionally

See, here's the problem with this lie. You might know that you're not picking the best champion, therefore you have the skill requite. Though you're picking a champion you want to play, thereby making you preform sub-optimal, by virtue of simply having different champion selection criteria. Fun > Optimal

On of the biggest mistakes riot has ever made, was shifting so much of the match strategy to the pre-game lobby. Which is, not only, a painfully boring place to put a fucking "skill check", but it also isn't checking your skill for shit, when most people simply go to an online database or use a 3rd party tool to pick the mathematically best option for you.

I might know that because the enemy picked Riven, then i could pick Garen (like 85% chance of winning) and steam roll her. But, I also got into the match wanting to play some Illaoi (probably 50/50)... so i'm gonna play some fucking illoai. Even if it's not the optimal pick, that doesn't mean i'm any less skilled than the riven. Just because increasing my chance to win by 35% isn't personally worth not playing what i would find enjoyable.

The idea that there are "correct" decisions in the pre-game lobby, is equivalent to saying there are "correct" preferences on how to play the game. It's utter horse shit.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}


See, here's the problem with this lie. You might know that you're not picking the best champion, therefore you have the skill requite. Though you're picking a champion you want to play, thereby making you preform sub-optimal, by virtue of simply having different champion selection criteria. Fun > Optimal

On of the biggest mistakes riot has ever made, was shifting so much of the match strategy to the pre-game lobby. Which is, not only, a painfully boring place to put a fucking "skill check", but it also isn't checking your skill for shit, when most people simply go to an online database or use a 3rd party tool to pick the mathematically best option for you.

I might know that because the enemy picked Riven, then i could pick Garen (like 85% chance of winning) and steam roll her. But, I also got into the match wanting to play some Illaoi (probably 50/50)... so i'm gonna play some fucking illoai. Even if it's not the optimal pick, that doesn't mean i'm any less skilled than the riven. Just because increasing my chance to win by 35% isn't personally worth not playing what i would find enjoyable.

The idea that there are "correct" decisions in the pre-game lobby, is equivalent to saying there are "correct" preferences on how to play the game. It's utter horse shit.

There have been correct decisions in pre-game lobby since the dawn of time. In season 1, if you were good at Fiddlesticks, and they picked Vlad, you played Fiddlesticks. That is the correct decision to make.

In solo queue, this will often equate to picking comfort picks over priority picks that you encounter, but the question remains why you didn't learn to get comfortable with a priority pick like Orianna over... let's say Heimerdinger.

This is basic strategy and if you throw out basic strategy and you lose then yes, you're prone to bad decisions and that's where you're a worse player than someone who might be higher ranked than you, but you beat in lane.

deadlychuck1 votes

I'll save you some trouble.

This is why I think balancing around blind pick distributions is preferable to draft pick distributions.

There will always be advantageous picks based on circumstances surrounding the state of balance and champion designs.

In draft pick, you have information which can be used to improve your chances, if you balance the game around this information, then you've effectively fucked over situations which the players aren't given access. Where as if you balance the game around not having the information, then the game is no longer "balanced", but it's imbalance is based on the extra information you gain, which plays more like a strategic and skill advantage, as opposed to a standard which fucks everything up when this standard level of information isn't given.

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