Talon, and why silence is not the problem you should be looking to fix.

AhhShucks·9/16/2014, 5:29:36 PM·12 votes·2,174 views

Talons silence doesn't have a huge range. It has as much or more counterplay as Tibbers on Annie in a normal scenario. It even puts you in Melee range where you are much more vulnerable afterwords. Without his ult Talon has as much counterplay as any burst mage in the game, mostly centered around range of threat and positioning.

The real issue here is when he uses his ult to open from stealth and instantly annihilate someone. The exact same issue that got Rengar and Eve reworked in the past. The stealth removes most need for any real positioning gameplay as it gives Talon a way to move into range without fear of retaliation, or at least guarentees that he will get to use his burst on his intended target before anyone can do anything about it.

Instead of removing his tiny silence that actually makes it possible for him to fight people like Kat or fiddle. Remove his ability to use E while in stealth. Problem solved. Now he still has his ability to interrupt combo's and channels briefly when an opportunity arises, but cannot stealth WTF gank anymore.

The reason the silence change going on the PBE scares me is because on the surface its going to look like its effective. Removing the silence is going to make him lose more lanes. When he loses lane he will get less items, and do less damage more often. If he has less damage then the rediculous stealth gank is less likely to kill your target. If he should ever get a lead then his stealth WTF gank, which I'm sure is the real "no counterplay" issue, will be just as bad.

This silence change is merely putting Talon in a position where he can't be good, instead of adding any real counterplay. Now his combo is only going to work on immobile squishy targets, instead of all squishy targets. If you make his gameplay focus more on positioning, then anyone can play with and around that game.

40 Comments

Marthian9/16/2014, 6:15:30 PM6 votes

Talon's Silence isn't easily comparable to Annie's Tibbers though. Annie still has to position well to do her full combo.

How almost every Talon kill I've seen goes like this:

If you walk within a certain distance, he silences you for one second. You are unable to flash away or try and disengage. He then uses his full combo (and most Talons I see pull it off extremely fast.) and then uses his ult to finish you and/or disengage. Then you can't even target him.

I rarely see a Talon use his ult to come in stealthed for a kill. It does happen, but his Silence is still a huge issue since it's a free silence you CAN'T DO A THING about. Keeping a distance is not good counterplay as it doesn't promote interaction.

acepil0t9/16/2014, 10:18:40 PM3 votes

Having mained Talon since i started playing league of legends, I believe I can vouch for removing his silence not solving any problems. It is true that not being able to retaliate for a whole second on such a fast burst combo is unhealthy, but I believe that his silence is a key part of his kit, interrupting channels. Have the silence last 0.1 second would solve the problem while at the same time not removing a key utility aspect of his kit. And to anyone who can't retaliate much anyhow, the slow will be worse because it will proc his passive for the first hit, which is gonna hurt.

EDIT: I forgot his passive is useless :|

ULTRAF0RCE9/16/2014, 9:17:52 PM2 votes

Why not have a 0.1 second silence so you can still counter Katarina ult or Fiddlesticks ult/w but the enemy can still flash away if you don't spam your abilities, also I am personally not a fan of talon but with the nerf he is too similar to an AD version of Katarina.

Old Man Teeto9/16/2014, 11:00:03 PM1 votes

CC on assassin's should always be skillshots.

Assassin's are 100-0 bursters, if they can do that with point-click CC, the enemy has no counterplay aside "don't be there"

Skillshots can be dodged, or flashed worst cast scenario.


Silences have only recently become "strong enough" CC to warrant not having on assassin's.

Adalore9/17/2014, 6:47:59 AM1 votes

Ohnoes people can panic flash or use blink abilities to escape my 100 to 0 combo that is practically finished before the previous silence times out.

Talon really...REALLY doesn't have counter play once he starts winning, he hits the 100 to 0 threshold very quickly and is VERY difficult to out play that when Talon can LITERALLY BECOME INVISIBLE, and can freely engage at any range where interaction would normally happen.

The issue is "Time to kill" Talon has a VERY...VERRRRYYY short TtK, which is very hard to deal with. Really they only way to deal with a talon is chasing him down with a fighter he cannot burst, removing him from the teamfight.

Really I... Cannot see these issues being resolved unless he gets a full mechanical gameplay update.


Ganking from ult stealth is not really a thing, unless enemies are being REALLY stupid and over staying at low health, EVEN THEN talon already power walks in with moby boots and dunks fools quite quickly.

Nhifu9/17/2014, 1:07:59 PM1 votes

can't compare AD assassin to AP support

HigeR9/16/2014, 7:32:00 PM1 votes

I think the real problem is not the silence per se but his blink, you see if Kat had a silence on her blink as well, you KNOW all hell would break loose, now she doesn't has one nor she has real burst, her damage is sustained (with low AP, sort of) and she doesn't have stealth either so all in all, Talon has got it reeeeeal simple for what he can do... yes he's gated by mana somehow and his damage is far from Kat's but I think he could do all he does right now with a little bit more risk.

Retaliation will be very very dangerous for him, specially stuns or silences (soraka...) so instead of some measly 99% slow (seriously, wtf?) they could give him tenacity and a small fear, though, having fear on a blink that puts you behind your enemy can be potentially OP ._. so maybe they could change it so your blink puts you in front of the enemy instead so it'd run to safety, increase his range when Q is active and definitely what you said, make him unable to blink when he's on stealth.

Another potential change could be to take his blink away and make it into a targeted jump, that way you can flash react before he silences you but this would take so much flavor from Talon himself =/

Arythmia9/16/2014, 10:31:56 PM1 votes

Now all the assassins have no silence lol