8.10 and Kindred

Godly poro·May 16, 2018·28 votes·13,149 views

So hey riot avid kindred player here, quick question while it's nice you give us random QoL changes that we should've had since release like this patch. Can you maybe not ignore our core mechanics and make our mark spawn with the scuttles seeing as they're pretty much dead by 2:20 now? Would be fantastic, and i'm aware of the response "We have other kindred changes in the works" Cool, but how about making it so we don't get even more screwed over with our marks more than we normally do like what happened this patch. It's almost never gonna be viable to wait for the Mark to become a scuttle when they give that much xp with out being jumped on or forced to take it already.

53 Comments

Spooky PeachesMay 16, 20185 votes

Kindred is such a weak champion and I will never not be bitter about it because I love playing her...Sure "you can play every champ well if youre good at them"! but its SO easy to counter kindred its painful.

Godly poroMay 17, 20188 votes

They're not horrendously weak, but might need a small nudge. They see play in every elo, and work pretty good if you main them.

SpencerMay 17, 20183 votes

Speaking from a low level, Kindred can be tough. She requires your teammates know her kit... and most don't.

BattalionMay 17, 20182 votes

"She"

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/915/652/b49.gif

SpencerMay 17, 20182 votes

I mean... what does Wolf really do other than KS Lamb?

ZenaMay 17, 20187 votes

He talks to you so you don't feel lonely ;-;

RiotCarnival KnightsMay 17, 20182 votes

[deleted]

ˇ Namachi ˇMay 18, 20184 votes

:l Go reply to the actual post ya boob!

ZenaMay 19, 20181 votes

What did he say?

BattalionMay 17, 20181 votes

KS? KS?!?!?!?!!?

I will find you.

Spooky PeachesMay 18, 20181 votes

so true :"(

Spooky PeachesMay 18, 20181 votes

Yeah but it's definitely a challenge getting to that non-weak point. I'm tryin so hard to be better lol

BattalionMay 17, 20183 votes

HER

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/915/652/b49.gif

Sad TyrantMay 17, 20183 votes

she is excellent.

[vlad-salute]

BattalionMay 17, 20182 votes

http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/pepe-reeee-gif-9.gif

Smitty ManjensenMay 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spooky Peaches,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVasub1H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-16T22:22:25.127+0000)

Kindred is such a weak champion and I will never not be bitter about it because I love playing her...Sure "you can play every champ well if youre good at them"! but its SO easy to counter kindred its painful.

According to her win rate she's everything except weak.

Spooky PeachesMay 18, 20181 votes

yo man you cant argue that shes hard as fuck to play tho

Smitty ManjensenMay 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spooky Peaches,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVasub1H,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2018-05-18T01:46:51.773+0000)

yo man you cant argue that shes hard as fuck to play tho

True, she's definitely not the easiest champion to play.

HappyOrLuckyMay 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

According to her win rate she's everything except weak.

But you have to remember only mains and onetricks play them.

Tahminatrix May 16, 20184 votes

And they give kindred a "quality of life" (buff) in order to make up for this.

TBH this just makes kindred players want to gank lanes even more, her ganks are pretty good...even if she doesn't get a kill its free poke for your lane.

Unless that Vayne decides to go all in right after you leave thinking the damage you did is enough for her to dive and play aggressive.

Im Kinda StupidMay 16, 201810 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVasub1H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-16T21:52:57.017+0000)

And they give kindred a "quality of life" (buff) in order to make up for this.

TBH this just makes kindred players want to gank lanes even more, her ganks are pretty good...even if she doesn't get a kill its free poke for your lane.

This change has exactly 0 interaction to whether or not Kindred ganks a lane... all it does is give you your mark when your ally steals your mark from a camp you were trying to take because they wanted gold to finish an item or some shit, or prolly wanted to leash your mark and did too much damage.

Tl,dr the QoL "buff" does nothing but protect against greifing teamamtes and does quite literally nothing for kindreds ganking...

Tahminatrix May 16, 20181 votes

WYM this scuttle change literally does the opposite of what riot wants, now kindred may be forced to gank lanes more rather than contest scuttle...her e takes way too long to ramp up on scuttle to not give a long enough warning and if she uses it on scuttle she can just be turned on by the enemy jungler who will easily duel her anyway...

So yes, this change did affect interaction between kindred and lanes as she wont be going for scuttle very much...she already has good gank potential she is going to use it to the best of her ability and avoid risky scuttles

Or are you talking about kindred quality of life buff, I said make up for (This) and said (this) makes kindred players want to gank lanes more

-------------------------->(this = scuttle changes)<-----------------------------

Im Kinda StupidMay 16, 20185 votes

Ok first of all, You do realise giving up scuttle is giving up the earlygame right? cause if you choose not to grab scuttle (which btw is tossing your first mark out the window) the enemy jg is just gonna hit lvl 3 and gank a lane while your still lvl 2 and trying to clear another camp to make up for the xp you missed on the scuttle.

"Avoid risky scuttle plays"? Kindred is a high risk high reward champ if you chose to avoid making plays for scuttle then am i to assume you also avoid making plays for marks in the enemy jg? Also funny thing about the scuttle cause if you just choose to avoid making plays for it the enemy jg is always going to be levels ahead of you cause your denying yourself xp.
You do realise your not playing leauge of legends anymore right as of today its leauge of scuttle crab because everyone and their mother are wanting a piece of that xp so if you just option on not getting it you option to not even play this match.

Godly poroMay 17, 20185 votes

All hail glorious league of scuttle

Tahminatrix May 17, 20181 votes

Wym still farming camps and giving up early game, you are kindred you are supposed to be behind but might aswell have botlane win hard with your early ganks while you support with R as soon after you manage to drag yourself to level 6.

Im Kinda StupidMay 17, 20181 votes

Your a duelist AND an ADC so no, in no way are you "supposed" to be behind and good luck ganking botlane when theyre 2 levels ahead of you cause you choose not to scuttle cause the fact remains that your kindred and if they turn on you your doing to die cause your a wet paper when it comes to taking damage and lets not think about the enemy jg running down bot with that countergank...

MAGA MAN X 2020May 17, 20181 votes

I had no idea that Kindred get's beaten by other junglers early on. I've went up against them so many times with tank junglers and gotten destroyed because they have dashes/ranged slows/ranged damage. No offense, I have 0 mercy for Kindred players and am happy to see them stay as far from the meta as imaginable.

XxDRAGONsAK47xXMay 17, 20183 votes

She's been away from the meta for like 2 years????

Im Kinda StupidMay 17, 20181 votes

Your playing a tank vs someone with %current hp and %missing damage in their kit...

SpencerMay 17, 20182 votes

Took me forever to get stacks. These changes make getting them from monsters more difficult, and with ganking from the jungle intentionally nerfed, this change makes getting them from kills harder. Took me forever to get to 4 last game.

Move the first 4 stacks into our own jungle please.

FlameHalbrdOkidoMay 17, 20182 votes

Kindred is in a spot where they don't live up to their fantasy of being a 2 in one champ because Wolf got passed over...they will get an update/small rework eventually

BattalionMay 17, 20184 votes

I would rather keep them as they are thematically, I enjoy their duality. I often find the "rework kindred to make wolf more apparent" camp is full of those who don't really main the champion. I would hate for the champion's kit to be totally different, it's a great kit, and very fun to play.

Wínters DawnMay 17, 20186 votes

Lore and gameplay dont need to line up 100% leave my kindred alone

BattalionMay 17, 20181 votes

Exactly

FlameHalbrdOkidoMay 17, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wínters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVasub1H,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-05-17T03:51:24.142+0000)

Lore and gameplay dont need to line up 100% leave my kindred alone

Um their duality was supposed to be the WHOLE premise of their concept, but its clearly not there in the game play, its not a lore thing, its a failed to deliver on gameplay that was advertised thing. I mean at least give Wolf more autonomy in W or make E his own Ability that Lamb supports on instead of the other way around.

I just feel like its such a missed opportunity. Lamb is about accepting you fate. Wolf is about chasing down those who run, but u never really get to do any of wolf's stuff. Im not suggesting changes to Kindred, just additions for Wolf.

Wínters DawnMay 17, 20185 votes

They failed YOUR perception of what you took from their creation and release. If I don't like how avengers movie turned out and called it a failure because it didnt meet some theme or fit their original concept and I called it a failure. Guess what that is, my opinion. They created a champion, they did, not you. So who are you to say they failed?

Lore, which is what a concept of a character turns into, does NOT have to line up 100% to gameplay. Lamb AND wolf are on screen. Wolf does stuff, lamb does stuff.

Leave kindred alone

FlameHalbrdOkidoMay 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wínters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVasub1H,comment-id=0003000100010000,timestamp=2018-05-17T04:26:24.375+0000)

They failed YOUR perception of what you took from their creation and release. If I don't like how avengers movie turned out and called it a failure because it didnt meet some theme or fit their original concept and I called it a failure. Guess what that is, my opinion. They created a champion, they did, not you. So who are you to say they failed?

Lore, which is what a concept of a character turns into, does NOT have to line up 100% to gameplay. Lamb AND wolf are on screen. Wolf does stuff, lamb does stuff.

Leave kindred alone

y u so defensive? Riot themselves have stated that they missed the mark...theres not not enough expression of Wolf in the kit, Lamb herself is fine so i couldn't see them removing/changing things that u liked about them just adding some stuff for Wolf's sake.

Wínters DawnMay 17, 20181 votes

Like I said . lore does not have to line up 100% to gameplay. It just doesn't have to. But people like you got to nitpick every little thing csnt leave stuff alone when in reality it doesn't need to be messed with

Godly poroMay 17, 20184 votes

You're both right in a way, it's true they don't match their lore which is a shame because it's a cool concept, but their kit feels great and is an awesome thing for mains, it'd be nice to make them live up to their lore, but also suck to lose the champ we've played and loved for 2 1/2 years now

FlameHalbrdOkidoMay 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wínters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVasub1H,comment-id=000300010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-17T04:58:50.697+0000)

Like I said . lore does not have to line up 100% to gameplay. It just doesn't have to. But people like you got to nitpick every little thing csnt leave stuff alone when in reality it doesn't need to be messed with

i understand u, and i get ur point, but i thought i'd just give u this link

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/yWEr6aRN-quick-gameplay-thoughts-april-20?comment=00020001

Spooky PeachesMay 18, 20181 votes

hehe..."missed the mark"...get it? kindred looks for marks....

MuffledGarbageMay 17, 20181 votes

well I mean there is an objective possible measurement for planning VS execution...

Kindrid was planned to be two halves of a whole with wolf following one job for the two and lamb doing the other. Wolf doing max-health damage and lamb doing large flat damage. Wolf being close ranged with Lamb being far ranged

Execution-wise Kindrid failed to be two halves of a whole being and is instead playing Lamb with a particle effect wolf that appears every once in a while to help

BattalionMay 17, 20182 votes

I really enjoy your videos, I've been watching them over a year now. Some of it has helped me preform as well as I am now (80% winrate so far in plat mmr, wish me luck it continues). Fanboying aside.

This passive pve mark "assist" mechanic should've been inherent within kindred's design from the start, as you mentioned. I do think that riot needs to step up Kindred QoL buffs, they've been in an awkward spot for a while. Not power-wise, more that they just don't feel good in a lot of situations. I've made thread after thread for well over a year now on these boards and have yet to get so much as a passing nod by a riot member to show that they've even seen my posts.

Godly poroMay 17, 20181 votes

You're not wrong they don't feel mad or clunky but not nearly as smooth as before their change from on hit based to crit based

Bob the ToastrMay 17, 20182 votes

Honestly it would be nice if both kindred and wolf could mark more frequently. Would make up for the scuttle changes.

BattalionMay 17, 20183 votes

I wish, I also wish that the cooldown between PvP markings wasn't so damn long lol

Scream EngineerMay 17, 20182 votes

Honestly I think with the new jungle changes Kindreds marks should appear -

0-1: Gromp, Krugs, Raptors, Wolves (Kindred's Jungle) 2-4: Scuttles, Gromp, Raptors (Enemy jungle) 4-7: Scuttles, Krugs, Wolves (Enemy jungle) 8+: Blue, Red (Enemy jungle)

I also think epic monsters should always give a mark.

Godly poroMay 17, 20181 votes

I agree at this point wouldn't be bad if riots gonna keep these changes intact

ZenaMay 17, 20182 votes

Stopped playing Kindred cause they're rather weak right now and I just can't seem to get a good game with them. (Yes this is also my fault cause idk everything about jungling) but they should really buff them already. Give them their heal back that was removed or reduce cooldown between marks would be better. They're the most fun 2 play champion imo and I've loved them since I saw them in the shop.