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Undo Zac rework petition.

Inkult··16 votes·2,001 views

Hello. Zac was my favorite champion. This is the current state.

Q- Used to be AoE damage. While not really flashy, worked, helped jungle clears and provided a decent slow for ganks. Now it is worthless in jungle, making less dmg overall considering all camps. Vs Champions, the pull is so minimal I rather keep my old one. Makes it less reliable, since you need minions or another champ to actually work. In team fights, is so clunky is very much pointless.

W- Same as always.

E- Somehow, the circle showing where you will land wasnt enough. Now the knock up is nerfed too. So Nerfed to the ground again.

Ultimate- Woah. Now you really screwed it up. The Zac ultimate was not only used as a knock back. Could help you get in and out of fights. Maybe even survive a chase. The new one is basically useless in every aspect and weaker. You land E, have .5 secs to charge. The problem is that landing on E actually pushes people OUT of your R. So you either insta press R and make a less powerful Maokai Q or simply zone while getting destroyed, and of course, you are done, cause there is no escape after that. Maybe Riot thought about a worthless Nunu ult with no dmg?

Zac was a balanced, fun champion and you destroyed the whole mechanics and fun out of it. Sure, now is more "INTERESTING" to look at. Perhaps vs Dummies or AL.

Every single aspect of Zac got nerfed, I dont think an apologize and a revert would be too much to ask.

27 Comments

Taliyah Rocks8 votes

I just wish they would revert him already and admit that his rework was a failure.

HE WAS FINE!

HE DIDN'T NEED A REWORK!

He was fun, felt great, was balanced, did his job, his gameplay felt rewarding. Now it's just a mess of clunkiness. I don't even care if he's getting buffed and become stronger than he was before. He's just boring! he's not Zac anymore.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

He has been out for less than 48 hours. Give yourself time to learn how to make good use of the changes. It has more skill expression now and is actually more rewarding when used optimally.

Inkult4 votes

I know how to make use of his mechanics. The problem is they are all terrible now. Q, unreliable, nerfed in jungle. Useless in team fights. NERF. W same. E NERF. Ult NERF.

Compare any tank ultimate to new Zac R.

(Not really tank but) Nunu? Tons of dmg, aoe Slow. Amumu? AoE Bind. Great dmg. Maokai. AoE bind. Amazing zoning tool. Sejuani. Ranged Stun. Malphite. Aoe Knock Back in a huge area. Decent dmg.

Zac- A watered down hybrid of nunu and maokai q with no dmg.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Comparing kits in a void is folly.

New Zac Ult gives him better control over how he displaces his enemies, thus giving him more complex use cases and therefore more skill expression. He gives up the uncontrolled but consistent power of multiple bounces for better control and a chance to use his basic abilities more in combat.

Before he had to sit in ult and spam W. Now his ultimate has a single powerful moment, and his kit provides more gameplay choices so he has more to do before and after that moment, rather than just being a bouncing blob of AoE damage.

Between the changes to Q and Ultimate, I can think of many new unique and skillful / effective ways to use his kit. it does mean he requires more skill to use effectively, but I believe we will find that more rewarding to achieve. If you dislike the increased challenge and preferred the constant AoE damage then I suggest you try Amumu or Mundo instead, they're still relatively easy and provide AoE damage in teamfights.

Amumu DrMundo

You seem pretty set in your opinions. Unless you are willing to discuss this rationally, I think we are done here.

Inkult4 votes

Zac lost 60% of his dmg.

Lost a reliable aoe attack in jungle. Have you tried the Q? the "Knock back / Push" is so unreliable and minimal that I would take back old Q any day.

The R in theory, sounds fun. Re-position a team WOAH! Yeah, the thing is unless you do it on a dummy, is not gonna happen. You need pretty much another tank, and current zac makes no dmg whatsoever. None. I could easily state that Zac is the champion with less dmg in League of Legends now. And utility? LOL.

Nautilus, Amumu simply out do Zac in everything. Including dmg .

My point is simple. Zac was a meta decent champ, balanced. Riot for no reason whatsoever decided to destroy it. It is not a remake, it is a nerf to the ground / refund/ bury this champ.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

{quoted}

Zac lost 60% of his dmg.

He's a tank...?

Lost a reliable aoe attack in jungle. Have you tried the Q? the "Knock back / Push" is so unreliable and minimal that I would take back old Q any day.

It still provides AoE damage in the jungle, but Q wasn't his primary means of clearing camps anyway, that's his W.

I have not had an opportunity to test it out yet but I've spoken with other Zac mains so I'm fairly confident in my analysis. I'm looking forwards to testing it when next I can play this week.

The R in theory, sounds fun. Re-position a team WOAH! Yeah, the thing is unless you do it on a dummy, is not gonna happen. You need pretty much another tank, and current zac makes no dmg whatsoever. None. I could easily state that Zac is the champion with less dmg in League of Legends now. And utility? LOL.

Have you tried flashing while using the ultimate? I would think that you could use that to re-position it slightly to better scoop enemies that barely escape.

Nautilus, Amumu simply out do Zac in everything. Including dmg .

My point is simple. Zac was a meta decent champ, balanced. Riot for no reason whatsoever decided to destroy it. It is not a remake, it is a nerf to the ground / refund/ bury this champ.

He lost damage but tanks are not supposed to deal damage, that's not their job (with a few exceptions like Amumu with his reworked passive). He was meta, and sure he was decent, but being able to dive onto somebody from a screen away and kill them while disrupting the rest of their team wasn't exactly healthy. Nautilus deals too much damage for a tank as well and I suspect that Riot may change that about him in the future.

I don't think that the changes are as bad (or unnecessary) as you think they are. They changed Zac from the unintended but successful AP Diver/Disruptor into a more defined Vanguard with more tools to better serve his intended purpose.

Anags1 votes

His ult doesn't really give a lot of new interesting things. You pull people into your team, just knock them up, or you pull them away sacrificing yourself.

I've watched some streamers play him and talk about him. Doesn't seem all that positive so far.

If you want to repositon a team just use Gragas and do it with more safety. But it's whatever, I don't play Zac.

He still has good jungle clear at least.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

OK I see what you mean.

Honestly what I kind of want Riot to try is to combine the old utlimate with the new one. Give it multiple charges when activated, and holding down R consumes the remaining charges to scoop enemies (balanced by scoop-range or area being reduced as the number of charges goes down)

FloofySheep2 votes

Okay, I've been a zac main for a long time now. His nerfs are not that good. He really lost his escape in his r. The Knock back was extremely useful. However, now with this changed, he no longer gets to escape from slows. He may be a tank, but he's also lost almost all usability in top. He can't fight top nearly as well without Q.

Of course, this opens up the path to Zac support, but that's not as good in terms of late game.

Although his W was the main ability for jungle, his Q was just as important. His medium cooldown let him spam it to gain blobs, which in turn lowered his W cooldown. Now, being more cooldown drops his clear speed a lot.

He was an extremely powerful tank, who lacked a bit in CC compared to other jungling tanks. However, his damage was what differed him from others. Somehow, building full tank still dealt a large amount of damage, but not anymore. He almost always requires another ap item in place of a tank item to compensate. Of course, increasing the damage would change it, but his ult also lost a lot more usability, as it became largely situational.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

His rework did have a few too many nerfs, but they are already reverting some of them and restoring some of his damage.

{quoted}

Okay, I've been a zac main for a long time now. His nerfs are not that good. He really lost his escape in his r. The Knock back was extremely useful. However, now with this changed, he no longer gets to escape from slows. He may be a tank, but he's also lost almost all usability in top. He can't fight top nearly as well without Q.

Top Zac? I thought he was primarily used jungle because his E is powerful for ganking...

Of course, this opens up the path to Zac support, but that's not as good in terms of late game.

Top and support would both be alternative roles for him. Riot sometimes stops supporting alternative roles for a champion if those roles are too uncommon or unhealthy for the game.

Although his W was the main ability for jungle, his Q was just as important. His medium cooldown let him spam it to gain blobs, which in turn lowered his W cooldown. Now, being more cooldown drops his clear speed a lot.

I hadn't thought of this, having less blobs definitely impacts his jungle and it's a small enough (and indirect enough) impact that it's possible Riot didn't see it coming. On the other hand I thought that they did something to make him spawn more blobs when hitting multiple targets... or was that just a proposed change they were considering making now that he's coming out too weak?

He was an extremely powerful tank, who lacked a bit in CC compared to other jungling tanks. However, his damage was what differed him from others. Somehow, building full tank still dealt a large amount of damage, but not anymore. He almost always requires another ap item in place of a tank item to compensate. Of course, increasing the damage would change it, but his ult also lost a lot more usability, as it became largely situational.

To be fair, nobody should be able to build all tank and still deal tons of damage, it's unhealthy for the game.

FloofySheep1 votes

I don't mind having these large changes, but he's definitely a lot less useful that his past self. He is a very powerful jungler, but his E was nerfed. The one thing they promised not to touch, was changed. Now it gives a .5 knockup rather than 1 second. This is huge, and could actually have made his ult much better. I don't dislike the fact that they reworked Zac. I disliked the fact that they made it a nerf, and not a buff. He wasn't at the level of damage where he could shred like an ADC or mid-laner, but he had the power to do quite a bit if played right. Also; the second most unique part of zac has weakened him so much more. His Blob drops. His R used to be able to drop him a large amount of blobs, letting him heal upwards of 16% of his full hp. Now, with the removal of his old ult, he no longer can get the needed cooldown reduction and blobs to allow him to do as much damage and heal. Think of it this way, his R already lost 60% of its damage. It also lost even more damage, if you include the W that he could use while in his R, and he lost a lot more HP due to the lower amount of blobs.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

You could fit 2 W's inside his ultimate if you activated both at the same time and landed on the blobs for a passive cd reset, Effectively creating 6 blobs total if done right.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

OK I see what you mean. I can see how it was a bunch of nerfs.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

As a fellow Zac top main, I am sorely disappointed in Riot's decision to uproot this champion to garbage status. Even if they left his Q alone and changed his ult to what it is he'd at least still be a viable champion in the game. But now, with this Q change, he lost his biggest and best attribute, AOE wave clear and champion poke. It was so easy to position yourself to target enemy champions inside the lane while they were trying to farm, which is what made Zac so hard to deal with in the top lane. Now, you cant even target an enemy champion unless they are in front of the minions or there is no wave period. Now the only possibility is to max W first, which could work, but puts him within arms reach every time.

Riot did to Zac what they attempted with Skarner and force him solely in the Jungle. We can even have fun in mid lane AP anymore with this change because his Q will never even hit the enemy. Makes me sad losing another main.

Mordekaiser Zac

Funkin Dunkin2 votes

Better displacement? Have you ever played the old Zac? With the knock up time that E had it had plenty of time to walk to the position you wanted to knock him to, and do it immediately, then have 4 more bounces to hit the other people around him. This new ultimate is a joke in comparison to his old one.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I did play the old Zac. Plenty. His kit worked fine, I agree and he didn't technically need a rework.

That said, the rework provided some very interesting changes. These were my first impressions of it, but until I get a chance to play the new Zac I won't be able to fully evaluate the net effect of the rework.

Bunnymap1 votes

{quoted}

He has been out for less than 48 hours. Give yourself time to learn how to make good use of the changes. It has more skill expression now and is actually more rewarding when used optimally.

While I agree that it's bad that people already want a revert, I do think that in the end he will end up needing a damage buff for the amount of damage removed from ult. Just a slight amount, because he was kinda insane before

Edit: whoops, messed up the first sentence

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That's a fair point, I see what you mean

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Some Noob Dude2 votes

Good riddance.

Choten2 votes

AP Zac got nerfed of course but this is a big buff to Tank Zac. Zac has two pulls now and is on the same level as Blitzcrank and Thresh. You can Q a minion and auto an enemy champ and it will pull the champ a bit or you could Q the enemy champ, and auto the same champ for an extended slow. His R can pull/seperate multiple champs at a time and is much more effect if you're tanky enough to not die during it.

FloofySheep1 votes

His pull is worth around 1 part of Tresh hooks. And, it's not even to you. If you're fighting in say, river, you'll lose. Double Q won't compensate for the higher cooldown. The R can easily be avoided. How? The E ring. They already see that, move away, dodge E, gg. R can't land either.

broccoflauer2 votes

Zac rework is a JOKE. You can't do anything; inane impractical Q and R, rest of his kit is dragged down into obsolescence. Did they even test out this travesty in applied gameplay or just fold their arms and say AAAYYYYYYYYYYYY wacky Zac thematic clarity!!!

Worst champ in the game now.

Inkult1 votes

The main thing is that his kit is sub-par. I can deal with him doing less dmg. The problem is that everything is lackluster now.

He was incredibly nerfed dmg wise AND his abilities do LESS.

Less CC. Less DMG.

The ultimate is a mess. You do a single knockback for less dmg than a maokai q. It is tied to an E>Q auto hit minion or double hit and pray they dont move. For no dmg.

Zac lost the ability to zone a carry. People complaining about his e. Lol. Compare Zac to any tank and you will fino there is no reason to play him. Amumu kit is 10 times better with 10 times his dmg. Nautilus, Galio, Alistar, Blitz. Everything about them is better.

u type i int1 votes

I feel the exact same way as you OP. I may only be silver II, but Zac was the one champion I knew that I could do well in and have a blast. He was balanced and at best a tier 2 jungler. He didn't need this rework compared to other champions. I played zac almost every game and had 6 S ranks in my last 7 ranked games last week before the change. Now i am left with nothing to play and am not sure where to turn to. I played him in ARAM and went 1/9. I went 1/9 with a champ I used to dominate games in. Even if he did get changed, the fact that I do that badly on a champ I have been maining for a year is ridiculous. He's weak, not fun, and pretty useless overall now.

After that ARAM game I wanted to throw up because a champ I had loved so much and made my living off of in league was now nerfed to the ground. RIP Zac, you won't see the light of day again.

periodictable1 votes

Agreed, revert the changes please! Just listen to the zac mains' advises for once.

Dãpper1 votes

bring back the old zac!

Miitsu1 votes

yes please

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