Boards›Gameplay

Why do rioters only respond to their own threads/ not serious threads?

Lunar ArcS··54 votes·20,050 views

As people that work on the game, I don't demand responses from every post that gets upvoted, but like the very obvious ones should get answered. There is no reason to continuously leave us in the dark. There's a reason people are quitting. God i will never in my life expect G.C or Meddler to own up for shit or even respond, but honestly the only rioters I've seen respond on actual topics, is Maple Nectar, and of course we are absolutely grateful for them being there, but seriously, y'all know where this game is going. Being unresponsive and reckless will just make people leave at faster speeds. You think new players are going to trump old veterans? Let me just put it this way.

League was very strategy based. Hence why the games have almost always been longer than 25 minutes. Casuals, do not want to play 30-40 minute games. Too time consuming for someone who is new and doesn't care. They will move on to overwatch. Or any other game where they can play 10-15 minute matches.

Then you'll regret ignoring your veterans. It's so heartbreaking to see pro players just straight up quit because the game is in fucking shambles and you guys seem to not care. But that's fine i guess. Lose money and morale.

Tl;Dr- Where is our communication? That's all for now <3

74 Comments

Novalas41 votes

Personally think that the median of communication is the larger issue. Responding to board threads, in general, isn't quite the most effective method of conveying the information, primarily because the content doesn't reach the vast majority of players. So if, say I respond to a thread and say "This is why ____ is changing", it's unlikely that this notably alleviates player pain or increases player understanding of our design philosophies.

I do think that there needs to be a better method of communicating with you guys and we're exploring ways we can do that in the future.

SonicÐeHedgedawg6 votes

The radio silence on the Kotaku article is kinda surprising to me. I figure Riot would want to craft it's own response as a company, but I'm surprised that there wasn't at least a “we've seen it and are discussing it internally” response

Pika Fox4 votes

Does anyone listen to kotaku or belive them anymore? Theyve done numerous baseless hitpieces by now that are always laughable.

SonicÐeHedgedawg3 votes

There seemed to be a fair bit of corroboration on this article, regardless of Kotaku's track record.

Pika Fox4 votes

Doubtful. Theyve done this before, its just a hitpiece and doesnt even look or read as someone who seems credible.

ThaddeusMike6 votes

The numerous twitter responses from current and former employees backing up the article strike me as pretty good evidence that there's substance to the article

Infernape3 votes

Then again it's all anecdotal. There isn't any hard, concrete evidence (IE a recording or a video as proof). It's all "he said, she said".

RedEve2 votes

So when Riot admitted that the Article shined some light on their shortcomings. What does that mean?

TeCoolMage1 votes

his face went red and everyone clapped

ModThe Djinn25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:26:52.699+0000)I do think that there needs to be a better method of communicating with you guys and we're exploring ways we can do that in the future.

I'm not saying that we should sync Riot board posts up in the client, but I will say that having a Red Tracker there would be a step in a great direction for both letting people communicate with you guys AND making the boards more accessible...

Novalas13 votes

Sure, that could be an approach. But then we still have a large portion of players in other regions (e.g. China/Korea) who won't have easy access to the information. I do, personally, like the idea of having direct links to Dev Blogs on the client.

ModThe Djinn4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:47:56.944+0000)Sure, that could be an approach. But then we still have a large portion of players in other regions [e.g. China/Korea] who won't have easy access to the information.

Oh, definitely. It's far from a full solution.

That said, I think that unless you only communicate in fully translated announcements, that regional information gap will always happen to some extent, if only because most of the Devs are in NA and primarily communicate in English. If any communication is going to be non-translated, I'd still rather have it at least ACCESSIBLE to other regions via the client, because some of them may not even know the NA boards exist as a source of information. The fact that all regions can view/post here is, I believe, set up precisely for those sort of situation.

Tim From Work2 votes

Not trying to cause an issue, but why exactly is it a better avenue to withhold information from the people you can currently communicate with just because others might not see it? To me the people who navigate Reddit/boards are trying to get information(or vent frustration) and you could always put that information into the patch notes like you kind of already do that reach a vast majority of the players

BEK Makadur1 votes

Couldnt you share your answers on important/interesting topics over your other ways of communication? That would maybe need another person to do that job, but that shouldn´t be the problem for Riot.

Most companies should take a look on how blizzard does things. They are like the gold standard for most things.

DrCyanide7 votes

A Red Tracker would have to be pretty heavily pruned (or at least filtered by subject matter) to be useful in client.

Something that would help the boards perception a little: Don't hide the Dev Corner posts off on their own corner, let them float around the Boards home when people discuss them.

Novalas26 votes

That's a good call out as well. Personally, I'd also like if Dev Corner and Red Tracker were designated with red text.

ModThe Djinn7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=0002000100010001,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:59:00.288+0000)

That's a good call out as well. Personally, I'd also like if Dev Corner and Red Tracker were designated with red text.

That's something we've looked into the possibility of. I'll check in on the status of that, because I definitely agree.

Provengreil2 votes

I'd use the red tracker if it filtered by thread. seeing 20 replies to one thread makes it functionally useless.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

I think just having a Red Tracker for each subset of Boards listed at the top of their respective pages would help.

nm10103 votes

I do think that there needs to be a better method of communicating with you guys and we're exploring ways we can do that in the future.

I'm pretty sure something similar was said in season 6 shortly after Riot pulled the "solo q isn't coming back" charade (and I'm sure it was said many more times since then). Best of luck finding a solution within the next few years.

Ifneth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:26:52.699+0000)

Personally think that the median of communication is the larger issue. Responding to board threads, in general, isn't quite the most effective method of conveying the information, primarily because the content doesn't reach the vast majority of players. So if, say I respond to a thread and say "This is why ____ is changing", it's unlikely that this notably alleviates player pain or increases player understanding of our design philosophies.

I do think that there needs to be a better method of communicating with you guys and we're exploring ways we can do that in the future.

Have you considered a non-committal communication policy on the boards, as on the PBE, letting Rioters converse with the community about changes?

PaladinNO1 votes

So if, say I respond to a thread and say "This is why __ is changing", it's unlikely that this notably alleviates player pain or increases player understanding of our design philosophies.

Maybe not, but wouldn't telling someone be better than telling no one? Also, if one Red post something one place, someone will pick it up and use it as future reference whenever they or that person will be bothered to repost or redirect someone else to said statement.

For example, this is one I use frequently (Red response on saying "gg ez"): https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/csKc4u0W-is-saying-gg-ez-being-toxic?comment=0009 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EnunvHEJ-so-riottantram-riots-thoughts-on-saying-ez-after-a-win?comment=0002

...not having seen any updates on that policy, I take the above statements as fact.

I don't know if this is your table, but I'd like to do an experiment here: Me and some of my buddies like to do some basic modding on the games we enjoy (replacing sounds and visuals - the simple kind of modding, and nothing illegal), but all of us are frustrated about the introduction of .wad-files (and I have seen several thread about the same) as that outright locks down almost everything.

So if I were to ask you for information on how to access and edit these .wad-files (looking for details on how to change login screens, champion VOs, splash arts and summoner icons), would that be something you could reveal?

It's funny and sad at the same time really, as the new client is based on Chromium - which is open-source - and makes it harder to mod than the old client. That totally defeats its purpose, frankly.

SMOKE THIS1 votes

[deleted]

ModWulf Helhammer5 votes

That's not what makes the boards a minority.

Most people don't have a need to complain, or if they do, don't feel it is worth the effort. The boards (and Reddit) will always be a minority of the game population, because most people just aren't that involved in the game to extended their interest into out of game communities.

Add to that, most people that come to the boards only come here to complain about stuff, so there will always be a general feel here that something is bad.

SMOKE THIS2 votes

. All I'm saying is Riot should actually bother to check the forums they created themselves for this sole purpose over outside sites. Because when people really do have an issue, they would think that the website itself would be better contact with Riot than reddit. And the fact that so many people are complaining should serve as a warning to riot about the game... but they don't care about the boards. Of course something is bad dude, have you even played the current game? Maybe a moderator should just delete posts that are troll/hypocrisy/not serious.

Ash Lockheart2 votes

Why have the website if its just a small group? I mean if not enough people are on it why have it? Why not tell everyone to go to the correct place to post?

I know you won't answer, but still. You say that the main website has such a small amount of people

Ash Lockheart1 votes

Why can't you tell people where you want them to go to post to communicate? If the website does not have enough people?

Ash Lockheart1 votes

Lol. Interesting. So your I can quote you on that reply?

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:26:52.699+0000)

Personally think that the median of communication is the larger issue. Responding to board threads, in general, isn't quite the most effective method of conveying the information, primarily because the content doesn't reach the vast majority of players. So if, say I respond to a thread and say "This is why ____ is changing", it's unlikely that this notably alleviates player pain or increases player understanding of our design philosophies.

I do think that there needs to be a better method of communicating with you guys and we're exploring ways we can do that in the future.

While I agree, it is not efficient for Rioters to respond to most posts, they SHOULD show they have heard the communities concerns. This could easily be done through the channels already in use (twitch, reddit, dev corner) but instead you just leave everyone hanging. Meddlers own post comes with a myriad of questions that, while not being significant to the Original Post, are still important to the community and need to be addressed. It is an ongoing failure of Riot's communication with it's customer base that they feel they are entitled to ignore 95% of the community questions on the basis that they are answering 5%.

I've used the same example several times, but one guy posted the same post within in the first 5 pages of Meddlers Dev Corner posts for 3 MONTHS. That's EVERY SINGLE POST for 3 months. Meddler didn't once even acknowledge the guys existence.... where's the communication there? That's not even PRETENDING to try and listen...

Even as I write this I doubt I'll get a response... I mean when a customer EXPECTS to get ignored.... how can you guys think that's ok...

Edit: Think I could clarify the guys from Sound, Story and Art are very good and responding to the community. Also that guy I mentioned... yeah he left the game 2 months ago... another loyal customer lost due to Riot's ignorance.

Ulquiorra01231 votes

I think alot of fire is aimed at the design team and the balance team specifically because both teams fail to communicate anything. What I would like to see in the future is for both teams to engage in discussion with the community itself, see how the community is feeling about upcoming changes, or the current state of the game. And then from there make their best judgement.

Right now it feels like everything is done based on statistics, and statistics don't help when you have something like Azir running around, and to be honest, alot of champions fall under that. The only things to get changed on PBE are the things that get massive backlash on forums, and i mean there has to be massive backlash. That doesn't feel right, and I feel like there would be less backlash if the two teams would just talk to the community and engage in those discussions. It would help their job alot, and would keep the community faithful in the changes to come.

Just my thoughts on how the community looks right now as far as the general opinion.

Lexekhan1 votes

right, why would you want to let players on your own forums know the ideas why your changing things and saying what changed

love the 2nd brilliant idea of having a red tracker on client also....i always wanted to check in on those balance changes.....errrr...i mean look at my teemo drawing

if your using red tracker to find out why riot doesnt fix things like turrets at all or dynamic que for a straight year etc then red tracker isnt for you, nor is forum search because riot just wont admit a mistake 95% of the time and when they do in those rare instances it will take over a whole year of outcry and people quitting for them to revert it

but sure, adding the look at my teemo drawing forum, i mean, red tracker....to the client sounds useful....

now to use your actual forums for....releasing information and having conversations about why you go the routes you do while taking input/suggestions

but lets be real, you would rather do it on reddit where everything is censored..... bc god forbid i see u pissing on my leg and ask u why your pissing on my leg and have it get removed....while being on a site that is NOT your own.....it boggles my mind, honestly alot of the things riot has done since 10cent took over has my mind just boggled

VaVoem1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:26:52.699+0000)

Personally think that the median of communication is the larger issue. Responding to board threads, in general, isn't quite the most effective method of conveying the information, primarily because the content doesn't reach the vast majority of players. So if, say I respond to a thread and say "This is why ____ is changing", it's unlikely that this notably alleviates player pain or increases player understanding of our design philosophies.

I do think that there needs to be a better method of communicating with you guys and we're exploring ways we can do that in the future.

I think (my 2 cents) the best way it to do a daily response to the top ~10 posts on the Forum. With a hyperlink in the client.

ModWulf Helhammer16 votes

Because a large number of other threads are steeped in harassment towards them, or the second they respond, there's a bunch of off-topic spam questions.

They don't have to respond to see your threads.

Lunar ArcS25 votes

Not quite. A lot of their threads are more arguing "Why is this not being resolved" "Why are you buffing things when we need to nerf everything" Etc.

They should respond. It's just that simple there's no reason to not respond? So what if some edy 12 year old tells you to "hehehxd ks scrub fg" you can delete it and answer the people who just ask for some answers.

I work a job in retail. If a customer says "Hey i need help with something" I'm not going to look at them and then just walk away/ You can apply that here. It takes like 2 seconds to be like "hey this is whats being done and why we are doing it"

Anatera11 votes

They want to give the impression that everything is fine.

RiotRiot Koalifier9 votes

I mostly respond to meme threads, so I can give you my perspective.

This is because I work primarily on infrastructure, build tooling, developer tools, and rendering engine changes. It's not frequently that I see a thread where a player says "I want to know what kind of tools Riot uses to build things in League" or "how is it possible that League has so little downtime compared to many more modern games?" Those are the kinds of things that are not memes that I could interact with in a meaningful way.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything interesting or informed to say about the balance/gameplay stuff. I have my own opinions as a player, but jumping in on that with a red flair can be really confusing - it looks like maybe I do have some influence or know what I'm talking about, but I don't know - I'm just a QA person testing non-game stuff.

It's still great for us non-gameplay people to read about what players are thinking on the state of the game, because if I do happen to get into a hallway conversation with folks that work on the gameplay, I can ask them about some of the threads I've read and whether they've seen them / what they think, but I don't think I have anything interesting to add for you all to read about.

There's like, 2000 Rioters that work not on gameplay things, and only around 100 that do work on gameplay things :(

DirigoX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Koalifier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-08-09T21:17:13.227+0000)

I mostly respond to meme threads, so I can give you my perspective.

This is because I work primarily on infrastructure, build tooling, developer tools, and rendering engine changes. It's not frequently that I see a thread where a player says "I want to know what kind of tools Riot uses to build things in League" or "how is it possible that League has so little downtime compared to many more modern games?" Those are the kinds of things that are not memes that I could interact with in a meaningful way.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything interesting or informed to say about the balance/gameplay stuff. I have my own opinions as a player, but jumping in on that with a red flair can be really confusing - it looks like maybe I do have some influence or know what I'm talking about, but I don't know - I'm just a QA person testing non-game stuff.

It's still great for us non-gameplay people to read about what players are thinking on the state of the game, because if I do happen to get into a hallway conversation with folks that work on the gameplay, I can ask them about some of the threads I've read and whether they've seen them / what they think, but I don't think I have anything interesting to add for you all to read about.

There's like, 2000 Rioters that work not on gameplay things, and only around 100 that do work on gameplay things :(

and only around 100 that do work on gameplay things :(

ah that explains the state of the game

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I want to know what kind of tools Riot uses to build things in League.

I'm studying software design in school and am really curious on what this game is built on.

RiotRiot Koalifier2 votes

The game is primarily in C++ Most of our tools are built in C++, with some Python. A lot of the game is built on in-house tooling, so I wouldn't be able to show it to you, but we have an editor that's like a much less nice version of Unreal/Unity. We use a variety of different tools for deployment orchestration, deployment, and builds. (Jenkins, Cooker tool, and some others).

Not sure what else you'd like to know :D

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Koalifier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:56:20.505+0000)

The game is primarily in C++ Most of our tools are built in C++, with some Python. A lot of the game is built on in-house tooling, so I wouldn't be able to show it to you, but we have an editor that's like a much less nice version of Unreal/Unity. We use a variety of different tools for deployment orchestration, deployment, and builds. (Jenkins, Cooker tool, and some others).

Not sure what else you'd like to know :D

Actually -- if you're here, I do have some questions related to a pet project I'm working on in Unity. I've been building a bit of a testbed for some of my champion ideas, and I'd love to know a few things (if you can share or know, obviously):

  • How does League handle applying buffs/debuffs to units, and what logic is it using to detect when a particular debuff triggers? Does it divide buffs into multiple component elements, or keep them associated under a single buff?
  • What is the camera angle League uses?
  • Is there a single damage class, or does each specific type of damage have its own class? (I'm assuming damage HAS a class here, which might be incorrect)
  • Is there a single damage manager, or does each unit detect its own incoming damage events?
RiotRiot Koalifier3 votes

I don't know about nitty gritty game code unfortunately, I'm but a QA person :(

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Koalifier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6ZMZd8N,comment-id=00070001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T05:07:32.150+0000)

I don't know about nitty gritty game code unfortunately, I'm but a QA person :(

No worries! Figured it was worth a shot that you'd encountered it somewhere. :)

Mysticman892 votes

Since you didn't peddle it, I'll point out that https://engineering.riotgames.com/ exists and has some pretty in depth blog posts about the underlying tech. I find a lot of stuff there interesting as an analytically minded non-software developer, so software people would probably be downright giddy reading it if they haven't already discovered it.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I'm giddy now that i know it's there. Thanks fam.

patmax171 votes

every time someone mentions python I can't help thinking of this: https://xkcd.com/353/

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

This is really good to know, thanks. :)

kayakninja1 votes

Let me jump in with a dumb question real quick. If your in-house tool is basically a less nice version of Unreal/Unity, why not use one of those? I know Unreal is compatible with C++.

RiotRiot Koalifier2 votes

That's not a dumb question! I don't really know, to be honest. A lot of it has to do with us using a custom engine, and having built everything ourselves. I don't think it would be easy to port the game over to be readable and loadable by those tools.

DeathBurst3 votes

This needs much more upvotes and visibility. The same way that posting in a gameplay thread with a Red flair would give the wrong impression, simply HAVING the Red flair gives a wrong impression. Not enough people realize that most Rioters do NOT work on LoL gameplay.

"There's like, 2000 Rioters that work not on gameplay things, and only around 100 that do work on gameplay things :("

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